Now you're walking that tech Grn, I had thought of that or using a bore scope through the oil filler neck to take a look around in there. The problem is the lever has to come out or at least disengage and rotate 90 degrees anticlockwise to remove the clutch cover. The lever is bound up and won't release until you pull in the lever and relieve that bind. It seems no way to win, you're chasing something that can't be seen.

Forget the clutch plate sticking theory, bad idea, doesn't fit what's going on. I do know this, of the four guys that have the same issue, one fixed it by tightening up his clutch freeplay, pop gone! The other guy said his quit popping on it's own, something wore in or smoothed out a rough edge?
There are now only two of us left and the other guy is no help, basically waiting for me to solve this puzzle.

Grn, I'm at a loss here, I've absolutely run out of theories now.

Could that lever be getting so hot that it is jamming something up due to expansion?

IDK, I need to dream up a further test of some sort. One clue, zip-tyeing the clutch lever back as it cools stops the pop. Don't know if that is significant or not.

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You are suggesting surgery and are not even close to being a doctor to offer a second opinion. Sit down clown! You expect X to sit bound up, were as Y is removed is the tension? So I stretch the balloon and make the air noise out the end. I'm going to remove my thumb and index finger so I can see how the balloon is being pulled and it stays in that position all flat and fluttering air out the gaps? How do you like your chairs? Fold up? Beach? Zero gravity?

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I had thought of that or using a bore scope through the oil filler neck to take a look around in there.

Why can't the clown come up with the simple things like this one? Now that seems more searching for the tech problem, not cover off and go look? I see the idea, but not with all the moving parts involved. That balloon should have been released and flown out the room is an air head way of looking at the tech? I don't believe you have the 4-strokes down let alone try to attempt a redesign. JMO

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YOU do NOT know WHAT is happening...so offer your suggestions...and let others offer theirs....you afraid someone might get it figured out instead of you?You're supposed to be the 'expert' around here...something as 'simple' as a 'pop' going on in a clutch unit...and you aint got a clue?Troll.

"I had thought of that or using a bore scope through the oil filler neck to take a look around in there"...why the fuck didn't YOU suggest this(hub)...jerk off..you apparently know what everyone else should be saying....yes?Loser.

Maybe you could remove the cable when it's hot...don't move anything...leave it as it is(the shaft).Then when it cools of,hand turn(if possible)that shaft as if it were the cable doing it...you may be able to actually 'feel' what it's really doing?I couldn't rest till I got this deal solved tell ya the truth

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/28/2013 @ 3:46 PM *

Look grn, we have to keep the entertainment going. Believe it or not I was going to suggest the bore scope, but I rather run the bore up yourear end. That is true, I don't have a clue, because I am not holding parts in hand. Could I figure it out? Probably not. But to see/feel/touch like a monkey barking in a tree like yourself, I'm just a branch away barking back.

Here again is the deal. It is not my problem. I have tank cap release if it comes down to that. Sounds like an engineering problem to me and I am no engineer let alone an expert at anything. I leave that up to you runner uppers without a clue is at least I can see that from here.

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How about being supportive instead of antagonistic and sarcastic towards other's ideas.Since you DON'T know....SOMEONE just MIGHT come up with an idea that might work for Kruz....ever think of that?You're only clouding up his thread with your 'entertainment'....you already KNOW what people feel about it...they don't like it.And it doesn't do anything positive for this forum when others read these stupid posts of yours.No wonder people leave....who the fuck wants to read your bullshit....NOBODY.Answer the man's problem...or allow others to add on as they see fit.Geez.It might help IF he could actually HEAR where the 'pop' is originating from,rather than trying to use a scope and see something.That's why I suggested opening up the case so he could maybe hear it occurring.Sound stupid to you?Too bad.Then YOU fix it.

"Here again is the deal. It is not my problem"...yeah...so fuckin what?You don't want to help the Kruzerman out anyway?Fuck you.Step aside then...and stay out of it if it's 'not your problem'....that's pretty easy isn't it?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/28/2013 @ 3:56 PM *

Appreciate input from both you guys, so let's settle down and work together on this. Grn suggested that top needle bearing so I went back and took a second look at that new shaft with only 30 miles on it.

Those are pretty deep vertical grooves, doesn't look like normal wear for an anti-friction bearing to tear up that shaft in less than 1 hour of operation. Grn may be onto something Hub. What do you think, is this the bind or releasing the bind is causing those grooves. If so, that is a lot of force as it's pretty hard steel.

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If the title said... 'Calling Grn' think I'd interfere? Nope. Not my problem someone request another. You see how many pages are about my not giving a shit? And that was with K and I alone. Now I have to clear yours is we were already there and gone.

Now you're walking that tech Grn, I had thought of that or using a bore scope

So do you see how both Kruz and I are clearing things pretty much without your input? You just repeat what might or might not be? But we are way past that.

You are more or less in everyone's thread. Could you just bow out of one at least? I bowed out of one is take that one over if you want to help. That's an open thread. This thread title is a little specific. You can say all you want, but once that abstract wrinkles my nose, I'm going to turn around and blow some shit the other way... In the most entertaining way I can giggle my beer belly up and down like a shock and springay ding ding.

Now, can you let Kruz breath and try things out? We have maybe a radius and a cable lube is rib the Kruz man on the dry cable try.

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That is the top needle bearing journal, at the lower needle bearing it is polished out but no grooving.
I've honestly never seen a needle bearing do this before but I'm not claiming to have seen everything.

I like the idea of opening up that oil filler and then seeing if I can hear the source of the pop a little better.

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Grn was on to something? I said his suggestions were cleared already. You said the bearing looked good. If that is not roller hang up, that sure looks like we are back to buying a blind bearing puller and hammering in a new roller bearing(s). Or, since you have the new shaft, buy the cover with the rollers in it and a new seal, if it comes like that? A square around the cover says it has these parts added as one part number.

So maybe you did find it with the chatter of the rollers hanging up the shaft. Rare are the rollers being shot that soon. They last the life of the shaft, U, throwout, etc. And no, you found it, not grn. You have the eyes there, Kruz. OK, so you didn't have it for the rollers... Take a closer look.

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I'm studying this part and it appears the needles are leaving the imprint in the shaft.

Yes, we are covering the same ground over again, backtracking, but it's OK to revisit the same clues in case something was overlooked.

Going to go ride it in about 1/2 hour then try a couple of the suggestions for additional clues.

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God forbid you'd go against Mr Shittalker.Forget Kruz...take Hub's advice...you know...'it's not his problem'...so I'm sure he's gonna steer ya in the right direction there....

BTW HUB...screw you...I'll post whatever and wherever I choose here...like it or not...isn't one of 'your' websites waiting for some trolling?Bottom line...my suggestion was right on the fork deal...in spite of what you attempted to make me sound like....and those needle bearing marks on Kruz's new shaft....that isn't wearing right.Something is pulling that shaft into those bearings.It shouldn't be doing that....not if those bearings are okay.

Think about it, Kruz... What is a one way roller? Freewheels one way, locks the other. I rest my case (cover). Fucking hindsight!

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"And no, you found it, not grn"...no shit sherlock.

"Could you just bow out of one at least?"...no....can you?How bout YOU bowing out?Why is it I have to get the videos...I have to learn the tech...I have to...fill in the blank.I have to shut up...I this I that...fuck you loser.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/28/2013 @ 4:38 PM *

Something is pulling that shaft into those bearings.It shouldn't be doing that....not if those bearings are okay.

How does a one way roller work? Does that sound like rollers are worn in a pattern? One direction is free, the opposite it locks? Yes or no?

Fuck wit me is use is not play'inn worth a full deck is use is up against the wall, greenie. Slow me those fast lines...LOL

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Right Hub, you suggested needles early on but it's sometimes good to get a fresh perspective, Grn's just trying to help so I went back and took that second look.

OK, that clutch pull is smooth cold or hot so the needles are doing there job in my way of thinking? I have never seen a needle freeze up except lack of lubrication, u joint, and they turned to powder but the driveshaft still spun. I eyeballed those needles, looked fine and the shaft turns freely. This whole thing is crazy!

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How about being supportive instead of antagonistic and sarcastic towards other's ideas.

Did I support that axle angle and the marks? Have you yet to understand the forks is install a 9.0 in one fork, a 10 in the other and the final fork is 9.5 being one unit? The spring is weak on one side is the same as saying I'm going to tighten the other side so it leans to the right? LOL

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"How does a one way roller work?"...it aint a one way roller jerk...it's a needle bearing set.rotates 360 both ways...that's the whole point of his wear marks...it shouldn't be favoring that part like it is...he said it was 'more' on a higher part of the wear pattern than the other part...which means....the wear is NOT even along the contact area.The bearing is allowing part to wear,and part not to....it's either the bearing is tweaked(worn)...or the shaft isn't straight right in there.Or both.If it was hanging at on degree of the rotation of the shaft...the wear would STILL be even on that part...not tapered like it is.

"Did I support that axle angle and the marks? Have you yet to understand the forks is install a 9.0 in one fork, a 10 in the other and the final fork is 9.5 being one unit? The spring is weak on one side is the same as saying I'm going to tighten the other side so it leans to the right? LOL"...shut the fuck up...they don't come from the factory like that...they come setup evenly....his wasn't....PERIOD.Twist your stupid remarks to somehow make it 'fit'...fail....epic fail jerk.

Sorry Kruz...I'll stop now...

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/28/2013 @ 4:46 PM *

Look at a freewheeler roller. It's egg shaped. The bearing look round, but we are rubbing both hands together. We are rolling two wheels the same, but one looks fine (rollers) the other has the finish off it and is shinny. So really, Kruz, you have to look at the rollers as half being worn? They really do not roll, but arch at that lever pitch or throw. So if we could remove a needle, we could see the roller is not round but more like the egg of a roller locker?

The more I see that chatter, the more I have to say wear vs. roller face change to a locker style roller bearing. Make sense is the wear of the old bearings?

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Hub, when I shut her down for the night, she pulls smooth and the return spring snaps her back. That doesn't sound like a one way roller clutch....just sayin.

OK, sounds like both of you guys need a time out. Can we just get along until we get this solved, then you can rip each other a new one......lol!

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So bad needle bearing from the factory? Remember this problem was from day one. It should have been warranties but I don't trust dealer techs.

Going riding, will take notes on observations tonight, you two kiss and make up.... Lol!

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it's a needle bearing set.rotates 360 both ways.

See what I mean, greenie? You are now saying the roller runs like a circle or a wheel bearing. If you notice, it is pushed against part of the bearing and rubs not rolls as if spinning. So there is very little movement on the roll of the cage. The shaft does not spin 360. See the wear pattern rubbed off only partially? So you are not seeing it. How do you expect me to keep going over and over your distorted way the bearing works? Show me 360 moves of the other bearing on the other side of the shaft if that finish is not even marked on?

If anything grn is good stimulation to the diagnostics clearing.

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THe friggin bearing rotates 360 degrees...NOT part way.They ONLY way it would cause marks like that if if the shaft was somehow not totally straight,or the rollers have some wear damage on em that isn't too visible.I say...replace the bearing(s).Grind NOTHING.Reinstall.Work the lever and see if the shaft is staying true.I don't think it is.I think the bearing(s) are damaged enough to allow slop in that shaft which is magnified at the pushrod interface there.He said he couldn't wiggle it...but that cable pull MAY be able to do that....he said it was tighter than u know what at one point.That tells me it's not moving freely in those bearings...either by turning smoothly,or the needle sheaths are deformed in there at that radius wear mark.

"The shaft does not spin 360"...it doesn't HAVE to....but the rollers HAVE to move all the way around the total OD of that shaft...geez....and I don't mean...the bearing itself has to spin 360...only the needles...that's what's causing that wear.Take the cable off...unhook the groove end from the pushrod...now spin the shaft....got it?Geez.

When I say 'bearing'...I mean the needles.And for your info...not every roller bearing is tapered....Are the needle bearings in a U-joint tapered?OKay then....cut the bullshit.

"So you are not seeing it"..it aint me who's not seeing it...you still think the bearing unit is tapered...geez. The wear is originating from the cable pull force at that spot on the shaft....the needles are probably worn right there..and it's just getting more and more slop as time goes by.It may not be totally visible on those needles...but I can imagine they could begin to develop a 'flat' spot right in that area with that clutch being pulled all the time,and only a limited amount of contact each time right there.If it was there from day one...then it was probably slightly damaged at the factory...and over time has developed into what it is now.You saw that guys video did ya?I did.It was 'catching' as he moved that shaft off the 0 degree mark(when the cable was removed).Looks exactly like the same type of wear that would be expected if it was doing that.His was worn as well.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/28/2013 @ 5:09 PM *

You are done, Kruz. No way hose say is I think... I think we have roller lock. Day one says that roller cage could be installed slightly distorted or pounded hard and collapsed a roller to come out a touch? That slight feel you felt may have been that roller all this time?

With that chatter marks and the way our starter motors work off the one way roller, look at the chatter marks on the one way starter. Looks like the same pattern on the shaft.

Ah, I just wanted to get on grn's case he thinks he can dish it out but he's looking for that respect. I plum ran out of that the other day actually. LOL Ruin the entertainment mix to it?

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Ah grn? The cage is put it behind your back, close your eyes, install the bearing. It says I only use this much surface and that is it. So the bearing being a full circle, of course it is going to land on that part of the bearing. The bearing is locked in the cage and the rollers only are used are some of them. It's because of the pull of the shaft is one, and the other is the arch is limited.

So the same bearing are being forced on over and over, not being spread out like a wheel bearing turning every 360. Do we see that? So like the pin on a drive chain, the turn of the link only moves half way? The other part of the roller is not even touched. Same theory here. The rollers are stuck in that cage? They spin but not all 360 to distribute the wear. There are only a few bearing being used and that is where this roller is no longer round but can be found in a locking kind of shape like the starter rollers. We there yet?

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