Hub, old lever shaft, you can see some evidence it may be binding on that pushrod but nothing severe. May just try grinding a little off, just open up the radius by maybe .001" at a time and retry.

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Dremel it. Either that or take a nail, saw it down the middle; cut the head off; fold a lip in the slot and roll the sandpaper 400/600 grit kind of X it that way.

Remove sandpaper. Stretch a cotton ball some; run it down the slot; dip it in fine compound polish, polish the Y factor.

Polish out the gouges. Polish the U arch. Happy drilling.

Crapshoot

* Last updated by: Hub on 6/24/2013 @ 9:19 AM *

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Yep a crapshoot for sure but what else at this point? That freeplay take up cold is butter smooth, hot I can feel that bind on the take up. What else is there other than the needle bearings binding up hot?

Compare the U on these two:

* Last updated by: Kruz on 6/24/2013 @ 12:08 PM *

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Well, installed the new lever and basically no real change but different feel. I found the right stone and polished/blended the old lever. It was not round in that U, more like an ellipse. I have no enthusiasm at this point to tear it back apart and install the modified lever. I have no theory on why it should work so not expecting any improvement. It feels like that pack or hub is moving when it pops. Back to slipper theory?

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Can't be the slipper or you'd slip the plates if it's cocked out. Make sense?

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I'm fresh out of theory, came home from work early today to install the modded lever but I've run out of motivation and am heading down to the pool instead. Maybe tomorrow. If it's not the slipper and not the lever then ??????

I'll do the lever, maybe tomorrow. If no change, I'm through, ride it as is.

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Rode last night, cooled her down and lever was in full lock down, like someone welded the lever to the pushrod. Modified lever going in today, let's see what happens.

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WHAT? How could a new part react now to this move?

This is where you need a second set of eyes. You start with: Cold Set A. Come back in, we now take a Hot Set B against how well A matches up? I'm chasing straws as if lubing the cable was that easy. You did lube the cable to eliminate that variable even though you found it slides well and all that none sticking on the free float. What about at hot thru the frame and that heat setting?

So what is it? Are we growing a cover to pull something back? Cover cools so it moves back but the 6mm is hung up, because it can pivot there and who is moving and who stays in that scenario?
Are we something simple like lube a cold cable vs. hot moving?

A perfect straw? You got me by the codys?

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I'll post pics tomorrow with the new stock lever laid out next to the modded lever, pretty clear when you see it. Teapot machined an ellipse rather than a true circle in that lever U. You'll see the bind point on that new lever, maybe 1 hour running time.

Forget the cable, it's slicker than greased owl poop on a brass door knob. I can completely disconnect the cable, take it out of the equation and the lever is still in lock down mode at that pushrod interface.

Modified part is in, going riding with full report this evening. Fingers crossed!

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Hey Kruz...did you replace the needle bearings up top there?Looks to me like they've worn a low spot into that shaft...that may be what's causing that shaft tip to possibly move as it contacts and grabs the shift shaft there...with the elliptical groove in it...maybe?Up top(where the needles are at)...it may not be 'moving' much...but at the shaft tip...it's gonna be a bigger move(where it inserts into that groove).Just thinking out loud here.The wear pattern there might tell ya which way that shaft tip is actually moving....maybe enough for your mm measurements?I mean...once it's installed,it stays there without rotating like 180 degrees...right?It only turns as far as the cable pulls it,yes?When everything is expanded with the heat...it may be fitting 'almost' fine...then when she cools...the play comes back into that needle bearing and all...the tip contracts somewhat as well...right?So when she's cold...there's free play going on at the tip/shaft groove...but not so much when she's hot....????It may just be those needle bearings up there.Course,I'm not sure exactly what I'm seeing with that wear spot pic...is that where the needle bearing is holding it?It doesn't look okay to me....worn like that.Or is that where you say you 'polished' it?

You don't suppose maybe you have a few of those needle bearing tubes that've been 'squeezed' out of round,stopping that shaft from sliding correctly on that shift shaft do ya?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/27/2013 @ 12:56 PM *

Good theory Grn and it shows you're walking the tech. That is a possibility, right now , all I know is that my clutch release lever is off by a few thousandths on alignment at the pushrod and that's all it takes to lock it up as it cools. I checked today when I had the shaft out and it was dripping with oil so not a lubrication problem.
Either my clutch cover is off by a few thou, doubt it as it's doweled, clutch pressure plate/throwout bearing is out by a few thou or like you said, those needles are worn. Going to go ride it in about an hour and a half, hopefully opening up that lever with the Dremel bit will eliminate the problem.

I did check for radial play in that shaft and felt none, slight vertical play and that was it.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 6/27/2013 @ 2:49 PM *

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Well she was binding up hot, cold it was smooth, hot I could feel something funny, like it had that binding. I thought of those needle bearings and so tried the new lever first to see if that would change anything needle to shaft clearance. It did, the pop was not as bad but it was still there. This has affected only four 10Rs out of the entire fleet that we know of, so the rest are waiting on me to figure this thing out and come up with a fix.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 6/27/2013 @ 2:52 PM *

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I'm a bit surprised that doesn't have the hydraulic clutch on there.Thought that was like 'standard' equipment on the newer sportbikes from Kawa.Well...Still a drag having this happen...it always did this?You say it was 'less' with the new lever...sounds like you're getting it isolated better than before...You don't think maybe it's missing a spacer or something do you?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/27/2013 @ 6:19 PM *

Yep, pretty much started acting up on the way home from the dealer, I must have gotten a lemon, Monday bike. Clutch felt much better with that modded lever on there, that gritty binding feel seems to be gone. I have to let it cool back down to room temp to check to see if the pop is all gone, four or five hours minimum, you can fry meat on that clutch cover. Will know in the morning if it 's fixed. If it's not, I'm all out of ideas short of jacking the gas cap up and rolling a new motorcycle under it.

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Well...the lever feels better...so that's a plus...those cases do get friggin hot...amazing really.Yours is magnesium?

Well, epic fail I guess.... I give up. Wasted two months of my time and hundreds of dollars on this so far and this morning......pop! It seems like such a simple problem would have a simple solution but it has defied all logic thus far.

When I got to the end of my street on the test hop last night my first thought was, "it's fixed", the clutch was so smooth now, no bind at all, felt...really normal. This morning, my heart sank, after cooling down all night, clutch lever feels like it's set in concrete, no freeplay, same old crap, pull it in, pop, freeplay comes back.

Here's the modification, seems to have improved the clutch feel so I believe that there was binding on that pushrod but apparently something else is happening also.

Top lever is the stock, unmodified new one, maybe two hours running time total. You can see just the beginning of wear where the lever contacts the pushrod. The stock U is not a true circle but rather an ellipse, I think that's where the bind was happening on that pushrod shaft.

The bottom lever is the modified older one, about 4000 miles running time and you can see where I've trued it with that grinding stone and made a circle out of the bottom of that U plus beveled out the sharp corners. Seems to be smoother now in operation but the pop just won't go away.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 6/28/2013 @ 7:13 AM *

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That ___U___ or say the lines I made away from the U. See how quick that finish etched away the coating? I know that's the contact point so for the arm to be set closed or no gap, are we chasing X instead of Y? Why is the arm twisted so the mm is lost? Are we talking the throwout bearing setup instead meaning?

I call my buddy, he'll just say to race gap it. So are we at race gap going out, not factory spec at the perch? And like you said, untwist the gas cap, slide one of them there rr's under it and...

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And like you said, untwist the gas cap, slide one of them there rr's under it and...

Yea that's the ticket for sure Hub, get a new RR and life will be great!
I posted the race results for AMA Superbike last weekend, BMW totally dominated the racing....LMAO!
I suggest you trade in the 14R on one Hubster, get on the winning team, real man's machine....lol!

Triumph SuperBike Classic presented by America's First Federal Credit Union
SuperBike Race 2 (21 Laps) - SuperBike
June 23, 2013
Barber Motorsports Park
Birmingham, AL

Race Time: 30:06.114
Margin of Victory: 0.221
Best Race Lap: Roger Hayden (1:25.281)

Note: Click on rider names to reveal detailed rider results.
POS NO. RIDER(S) TEAM BIKE INTERVAL GAP BEST LAP POINTS
1 1 Josh Hayes Monster Energy Graves Yamaha Yamaha R1 21 Laps WINNER 1:25.348 31
2 54 Roger Hayden National Guard Jordan Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R1000 0.221 0.221 1:25.281 25
3 2 Josh Herrin Monster Energy Graves Yamaha Yamaha R1 10.280 10.059 1:25.359 21
4 36 Martin Cardenas Yoshimura Suzuki Factory Racing Suzuki GSX-R1000 15.018 4.737 1:25.311 18
5 72 Larry Pegram Pegram Racing Yamaha R1 27.641 12.622 1:26.692 16
6 23 Danny Eslick Jordan Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R1000 28.014 0.373 1:25.894 15
7 11 Chris Fillmore KTM/HMC Racing KTM RC8R 41.082 13.068 1:27.061 14
8 99 Geoff May Team Hero EBR 1190RS 41.509 0.426 1:27.345 13
9 44 Taylor Knapp KTM/HMC Racing KTM RC8R 41.874 0.364 1:27.293 12
10 25 David Anthony Motosport.com Motul Fly Racing Suzuki GSX-R1000 42.482 0.608 1:27.383 11
11 20 Aaron Yates Team AMSOIL/Hero EBR 1190RS 42.668 0.186 1:27.317 10
12 18 Chris Ulrich M4 Broaster Chicken Racing Honda CBR1000RR 59.698 17.030 1:27.963 9
13 13 Cory West Motosport.com/EBR II EBR 1190RS 1:04.362 4.663 1:27.676 8
14 78 Reese Wacker Pilot Travel Centers/Wacker Racing Suzuki GSX-R1000 1:16.747 12.385 1:28.690 7
15 34 Danny Kelsey RPS Racing Suzuki GSX-R1000 1:26.181 9.433 1:28.940 6
16 75 Huntley Nash Neyra Racing Kawasaki ZX-10 20 Laps 1 Lap 1:29.131 5
17 269 Johnny Rock Page ADR Motorsports Suzuki GSX-R1000 37.279 37.279 1:31.071 4
18 55 Justin Neyra Neyra Racing Kawasaki ZX-10 46.590 9.311 1:31.393 3
19 68 Dustin Dominguez Motosport.com/EBR EBR 1190RS 17 Laps 3 Laps 1:31.613 2
20 6 Chris Clark Yoshimura Suzuki Factory Racing Suzuki GSX-R1000 11 Laps 6 Laps 1:28.851 1
21 14 Nico Ferreira DMS Racing Kawasaki ZX-10 8 Laps 3 Laps 1:29.834 0
23 28 Ryan Kerr Ryan Kerr Racing Suzuki GSX-R1000 DNS DNS -no times-

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I don't see how it could be binding...the pushrod there..the groove is hooking it,and pulling it whichever way right?How's it gonna hang up in that groove?Sounds more like it's in the other end of the pushrod somehow...not retracting or something.Until you physically make it slip back all the way(by pulling the clutch)Then it's fine.Till next cool down.You sure it's not missing a small washer or spring in there?At the other end of the pushrod?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/28/2013 @ 10:44 AM *

The other end of that pushrod slides into a bore in the transmission input shaft. It's really pretty simple and lubed up with molybdenum disulfide grease, pretty slick, don't see how it could hang on that end.

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No missing parts, I tore it all down and inspected everything for wear and then followed the book exactly on the buildup.

The clutch is 100% better now than when I started, much smoother and much better feel and lockup with the heavy springs. I'd have to say I'm satisfied now except for the pop, which thus far defies solution.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 6/28/2013 @ 11:08 AM *

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I was just gas capping you, Kruz...LOL funny man. Maybe we are chasing the arch and not the notch at the lower corner of the rod? Dremel those corners off? At any sharp tip, throw a radius at them. In fact, I'd radius the hole shaft's yank is cap... I mean, radius every edge that is sharp so nothing tags it, can grab it. You see how many radi I'd be dremeling smooth and away from a grab?

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I was just gas capping you, Kruz...LOL funny man.

I know you're just bustin my chops here Hub. You noticed I dropped out of the RR discussion, can't read that stuff anymore....ignorance can be cured but stupidity is terminal. There is a cognitive disconnect somewhere, Harley syndrome and it's futile to argue. Where are the RR results in AMA Superbikes? Production based racing with same rules applying to everyone. R1 can't buy a magazine win but tell that to Hayes. Nobodies winning on an RR, even Pee Green went to an R1. Sour grapes? Hardly, I gave credit to the RR but cat's whiskers? No, I don't see it. Am I claiming the 10R is top dog just because I happen to own one? Negative, good bike among many good bikes, they're all good in race tune.

Back to the clutch, we're still chasing that X thermal growth, you can pull the string out of the hole but can't push it back in is the analogy.

I'm no longer convinced it's in that lever. Could the plates be sticking as it cools? Why would it be only my bike and why didn't oiling the plates make a difference?

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You know...maybe if...somehow...you could gently remove that deal...the shaft...and just leave the pushrod in there with the clutch pack,but remove the case when it's hot.Is that possible?Maybe with all that removed...you could actually see when it 'pops',and maybe where it's doing it with that case off?Possible?Having it all installed...it seems awfully difficult to actually pinpoint WHERE the two(if they are)parts are 'binding'(if they are).It makes an audible 'pop'...but just where is it coming from?The clutch pack,the pushrod?Can't really tell with that cover on there.I mean...the cover isn't holding the clutch pack in there...or that pushrod.So you could actually remove it hot and get a look-see when it's cold.If it IS in the clutch pack,then that shift rod won't matter if it's in or out,right?(along with the case cover).IDK...fishing really.Maybe worth a try...there's most likely some play between that pushrod tip and the shift groove...so whatever is hanging up probably wouldn't be affected by that shaft being out.Simple setup really...but kinda odd at the same time.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/28/2013 @ 2:15 PM *

I'm no longer convinced it's in that lever. Could the plates be sticking as it cools? Why would it be only my bike and why didn't oiling the plates make a difference?

I'm going to laugh you lube that cable and all is fine. That's thermal. Plates do not stick or you wouldn't have that nice feel with the springs addition and all that lever feel throwing the lever out, right? Oiling the plates mean squat. Once they are soaked, centrifugal fling forces that squeeze play out of there. So if the main shaft is lubing the plates via the shaft/pressure, it was always getting lubed then. If they pushed a freeze plug sort of something you can see down the shaft? Then the plates are semi dry, but the free wheeler collars are being lube only? Where is that oil flow picture in the book?

Have you tried the [extra] spring pulling the arm home all the time? right now, it sort of free floats with that spiral spring they use you slide that spring up the shave and over the arm of the shaft? Then the other side of the wind is to let it butt up against the clutch cover?

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