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No Kruz...I don't think 'someone' hates you;)Well...maybe one does...but he hates everyonelol!!!

You guys are reading me all wrong. I goof the abstract and hate to see someone post shit they think they have a clue with... but you have to be so precise with that weapon under you, I don't care if you pulled the tire off, it assembles one way and I saw a circlejerk is jerk the tech is why I use cody to jerk your tech off is get off the shit or pot! Thanks for the props. I'm just your backassword book messenger.

You step on my care PIThat's your fault you think I'm attacking... I'm attacking the tech is all.

Kruz, I'm almost seeing if you can get away with using spacer#9 with a Brocker and use shim#8 with the stocker. I'm guessing the Brocks are shorter for the stacks to take up the coil wind? But the question is: will the stocker coil bind with a shim?

And then you have to think; how much am I losing on the bite to keep the rollers popped off that 3mm hump? So the qualifying rounds would go like this.

1. I want a Brock9-8 as stacked but only in 3 holes. I now place my knee on the cover; hold the seat so you brace the knee and pull the clutch lever. Here, "I use no bolts," just set my linkage up and how did that feel?
2. I now run a Brock9 alone and knee that arm pump.
3. I leave in the Brocker9 and now run 3 stockers alone an now I am at 6 and here is one combo.
4. I send my one bolt(s) at the pivot ends of the shaft [2 bolts total] @ 12 and 6 o'clock.
5. I forgo my X pattern with 4 bolts and am back to knee my cover and pull my arm pump.
6. I have to pull the stockers out, then I wind up with a stack of stocker8's.
7. Last thing I want is coil bind with a stocker8.
a. So I begin with 2 stocker8/s in the pressure plate alone is all I need.
b. I have to be careful so I go slow and creep up to the coil bind. See where the lever stops before reaching the grip?
See. How the firsthought is to [check for coil bind~idea] (((first))) with the stock spring and shim?

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Oh GEEZ HUB!I wasn't referring to youLOL!!!I think Kruz was referring to...well...nevermind....;)

Hub, unless I'm reading him wrong, I don't think it was you that Grn was talking about...hating on everyone I mean.... I think he was talking more from the perspective of pure theological abstract.

Hate to say it Hub but I think I've decided to go for the full montey, 8 & 9 Brockers stacked to give maximum lock up. Keep the slipper caught below in trapdoor mode if you will.

Hub, I got guys on ZX-10R.net, little guys, that drag race, running the next step up, Extra Heavy Duty Brocks springs so for a big guy like me, squeezing 8 & 9 Brockers shouldn't be an issue. It should clamp the stack, stop the flack and close the trap.....door. Will it give me back my 3mm, that's da question????

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Hub, unless I'm reading him wrong, I don't think it was you that Grn was talking about...hating on everyone I mean.... I think he was talking more from the perspective of pure theological abstract.

Hate to say it Hub but I think I've decided to go for the full montey, 8 & 9 Brockers stacked to give maximum lock up. Keep the slipper caught below in trapdoor mode if you will.

Hub, I got guys on ZX-10R.net, little guys, that drag race, running the next step up, Extra Heavy Duty Brocks springs so for a big guy like me, squeezing 8 & 9 Brockers shouldn't be an issue. It should clamp the stack, stop the flack and close the trap.....door. Will it give me back my 3mm, that's da question????

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"I think he was talking more from the perspective of pure theological abstract"....ding ding ding ding...we have a winnah!

Over my head but I see your point if the abstract goes that way.

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No HUB I wasn't referring to you hating Kruz or anyone else.

Hub, got my parts in last night and put it back together this afternoon, no change, I went with the extra shims on the Brocks springs, drag racing setup and still a one finger clutch pull, didn't seem to change the feel at all. Freeplay still tightened up when she got hot. Don't know what to do now. I was looking at the cable tonight, I'm starting to wonder if I'm getting lost motion. The clutch cable has no cable clip like my ZX-6R up near the neck and the cable moves a lot when I pull the clutch lever. Other problem, my stack height was too high, whoever built my pack substituted a 2.9 mm for a 2.6mm according to the book. That's about .010" too much stack.

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I don't think .010" will matter. It fits the clutch, you feel no change. If anything: the lever pulls sooner breaking plate. You need to keep the slop in the lever when cold. Then it should dial in hot sorta speak.

Are you saying the outer cable is floating? The 6R uses a clip to keep the outer cable from moving?

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Yep, 10R has no cable clip, cable comes out of the perch, then makes a 90 degree bend before it goes under the fuel tank and down to the clutch cover. I noticed some movement in the cable housing as I pulled the clutch lever, didn't have it on the 6R but it has a clip to prevent it from moving around. This could be a contributing factor to the spongy lever feel. Checked the bike cold this morning and the "pop" is still there, you were right the heavier springs didn't help.

I lubed the plate pusher both ends with Moly grease so I know it's not hanging up. Only thing left is the slipper mechanism.

My pack is built tight, that extra 2.9mm steel in the stack is probably not helping matters. I think this is one of the reasons my clutch releases right off the grip, ease off a hair and it creeps forward. As the pack wears, the release point should move further away from the grip...no?

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I think this is one of the reasons my clutch releases right off the grip, ease off a hair and it creeps forward. As the pack wears, the release point should move further away from the grip...no?

Yeah baby! See how you move away from the grip and that clutch is engaged? That's hair trigger. See how if you had the slack out of the cable, you touch the lever it breaks the pack? That's hair trigger. That's how you setup a race clutch.

If you can take both hands and place them down at the arm, the other hand over the clutch lever. You are going to johnny that cable back and forth with that tiny gap at the perch in other words; I want to see if they are sticking at that air gap? I don't want to pull the lever in, I want to see if my cable still has the freeplay back and forth in that static move?

And if you could remove the lower part off the arm, you take inner cable end and pull it out as you put the lever to the grip. Did that hang up in any way? Try it a few times. I say the more I think out the cable, there is no way it could keep that ramp open. Especially how you feel the creep right as you let the cable out. So that says the cable is sensitive and that ramp is [still] hanging up back there.

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Yep, that's how I see it now, the ramp is hanging somewhere, this is one jacked up clutch from the factory, don't they test drive these things at mother teapot?

Came back from my test hop last night and smelled that strong burning leaf odor, seems to be coming off the headers. Pulled the oil filler cap immediately, smells like sweet, fresh T6 Rotella in there.

Not sure what that odor is but it's been there since almost day one, come to think of it, kind of reminds me of that smell when your burning through two by fours with a table saw, kind of a burned wood odor. I definitely got a bike that was built on Monday.

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Hub, I can wiggle the arm at the clutch cover and pop the lever off the perch, open that airgap.... so the cable is not really hanging up. The lever moves in three stages with three distinct feels. Phase one, open the air gap, no resistance, phase two, mushy, feels like your pulling on something but not a solid resistance, phase three you can feel the springs being pulled off their seat. I think phase two is the cable monkey motion.

Last night I rested my fingers on the lever and lightly snapped it to check that air gap, went away under hard accel, felt taut like there's zero play, pop a downshift, play is back. This thing is making my head hurt.

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Not sure what that odor is but it's been there since almost day one, come to think of it, kind of reminds me of that smell when your burning through two by fours with a table saw, kind of a burned wood odor.

I think I know what the problem might be.

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Not sure what that odor is but it's been there since almost day one, come to think of it,

Rook, if that cover was on the first day or close to it, seems more emissions smell down there by the cats? It has that vapor hole? Vapor hole is worth shit once the carbon builds. Then the puddles sit on the carbon, never drain at that hole. So you may be smelling that tiny hole on the pipe? Either that or the gas being burned giving off that faint smell I have smelled on other bikes is that same smell? Sort of a sitter kind of fuel release? Is that the smell or is it more metallic [in smell] off the metal pipes?

See, it's not the cable/perch hanging up; not the pack change in thickness; not the springs; not the adjustment; not the heat. I think it's more mechanical? Polish the ball galleys? Give more radius to the ends [both] winding up at the back of the basket to ramp? See that?

Basket to ramp intersects? Where is that heat expansion and who needs a shimming, or [grinding away of] a metal release. Design wise, something in a heated environment, an expanding environment is in need of release/shimming away/machine me a new design?

(pulling hair out of scalp icon)

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Alright Hub , I had a chance to get out last night and wring it out a bit, give it the berries and my perception has changed, I'm liking the new setup. Never touched the adjuster, she comes up to temp, freeplay tightens up and from there on the freeplay stays constant. The key is to set it then forget it. The lever has a much better feel to it now, it is stronger by maybe 15% and I can feel a much more solid lockup on clutch release, in a word it feels much more solid now.

The cold pop is still there and your ramp idea sounds right, as long as it doesn't hurt anything, then I'm OK with it, just a quirk of this machine.

The odor could be the catalyst, just never smelled anything like this before.

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HubMeister, I have a theory on the pop, stay tuned, will know in the morning if I have it figured out or not.

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OK Hubster, cold pop is gone, freeplay at shutdown and this morning was the same, no pop this time. I got to thinking about what I called that crude actuator mechanism and looking at the photos I posted of the pushrod. There is a narrow wear band just behind the mushroom head on that pushrod where the actuator fork grabs it. I started thinking that this mechanism has a fairly narrow range of motion within which it will work properly, set it up with too much freeplay and when it cools down the actuator fork slides up the pushrod away from
that mushroom and binds on the pushrod shaft. Because of the geometry of the actuator, if that angle is slightly off, pulling the lever is creating side loading on the pushrod rather than a clean axial pull. Pull the lever all the way in and the tension of the clutch springs releases the bind and.....pop! Now tons of freeplay. It's starting to make sense, looks like the whole problem was self-induced, I was setting it up with way too much freeplay when hot, the design can't handle it. What I did differently last night was got the bike hot, then adjusted at the perch for just the slightest freeplay, maybe 1 mm. Now the clutch release point moved away from the grip right where it should be, now feels perfect and when it cooled down no pop.

One last thing I need to do to verify my theory is go ride it and make sure everything is right where I left it yesterday. It is possible that the Mothership was right, set cold freeplay at 2-3 mm and forget about it and it will work fine.

Thunderstorms this morning so won't be able to do a test run until later but right now it appears I created my own problem.

OK, my ZX-6R has the identical setup, why no drama there, set it once and it hasn't moved in 8000 miles? My theory, 6R has a true oil bathed clutch, same parts but they don't get hot, you can place your hand on the clutch cover after a hard run and it's warm, 10R will give you a third degree burn. The clutch sits way up on the engine and runs scalding hot, thermal expansion messes with the adjustment.

This is all theory right now, more testing needed to verify the results but pop is gone so I think I'm on the right track now.

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If self induced, didn't you try this all cold and hot with the adjustments? And most likely yes, mother teapot does not need to come to your aid is find a dealer or read the shop manual [if] it was just a cable gap at the perch? Hard from here to feel what snaps from the back or the front?

And like I said, as crude and bulletproof is that arm actuator, that design has not changed since I've be popping those clutch covers off 2-storke air cooled Honda CR250's for who knows how long? My guess is I think you found it if that pop is at the cover not the clutch. Light up a good one. I think you deserve it.

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And you do know [if] mother teapot hands out 1/4Lee bulletins to the dealers, you can write a 'field fix' piece and see if mother teapot will use it and send that update in their fliers/bulletins? We used to get $$ if we found a fix: dealer level. Honda used to do this and I don't know if they stopped it or what? When a packet of bulletins came in, they were notebook hole punched so those fliers could be saved in your service notebooks/manuals/extras to mechanics/etc. Your dealer would know what I'm talking about. Especially multi-brands in one place. See who is doing what as far as handing out info like this?... You 'field fixer' you!

Sure sounds like one to me? As simple as it sounds.

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Hubstermeister this is a finicky setup, nice feel now and I did a couple of 120 mph WOT pulls in 6th gear up a long uphill, everything feels solid. I just sent a PM to the other guy with the same problem with some pointers. The Brocks HD clutch springs are a must! I'm happy with the setup now, just need to put some miles on it before I call it done.

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Hub, another '11 owner is having the cold pop and he has the Brock clutch mod and clutch cushion kit which disables the slipper mode so we're back to the actuator and pushrod hanging up and causing the pop. Mine is still popping cold but much less since tightening up on the freeplay so maybe I'm on the right track. I'm wondering if I should change out the shaft and see if it makes any difference? $32 so not a lot of money and about 20 minutes to change it out. The pushrod would require opening the clutch back up.

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This slipper is new to me so it's one more idio to dial in. I say no to the 32 dollar part. I say dial in the cable gap. The 11 guy will have to find the same gap. I'm going to think out something like these 3 variables.

V1. This is the slipper. It's fast acting, close to the action, moves with the basket; it's that close up against the raggedge is that tolerance.

V2. The 32 buck pivot is that opposite end. That is where there is this tolerance via the 'dial-in-idoisync,' and that is to sync in the lever's gap... Question mark.

V3. The heat in between the ramp and the pivot. There is something going on at that gap and the snap. It seems the ramp is working fine. It seems the new pack even farther out did not change the pop. It seems the springs make no change, but more a refined feel of the lever pull say. It rather seems that heat plays a major part in this and I mean some sort of, "I need some cable gap expansion and it's more than you think" kind of heat.

My slip is bulletproofor now. My pivot arm has been around for so long, the only real change is at the ball and socket setup, and then again, I am only hearing a few poppers out of a large production of these actuators in action. Do I narrow it down to a simple clutch adjustment after all?

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Hub, I dialed in the cable gap, maybe 2 mm hot, not much at all. I let her sit overnight and loud clunk this morning on first clutch pull. It just doesn't seem like that clutch release mechanism binding the pushrod could make this big a sound.

It's weird, if you wait just a few hours after shutdown and pull clutch, it's a pretty mild pop, let it sit overnight and cool down stone cold and it sounds like heavy metal moving around under the clutch cover when you pull the first time. It feels like something is really bound up and then releases, cable gap now maybe 5 or 6 mm.

We know now that nailing the trap door shut by bolting on Brocks' manhole cover doesn't help, use the slip locker and you can still get the pop.

Is the entire clutch assembly moving around axially?

* Last updated by: Kruz on 6/13/2013 @ 8:12 AM *

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