If i had your fleet, I wouldn't be looking for something else though. I would just choose my best weapon and improve the suspension etc and take it to the track.

Sage advice there Dragmeister, I don't need anymore bikes and garage space is getting a bit cramped as it is. That's why I titled this thread the way I did. I may have to just kick back and wait for the next big thing to arrive.

OK, enough discussion, time to ride, Jag when are we going, I'm off work for the next four days?

I'm off Thur and Fri. Friday would be ideal to get as far away from crazed shoppers as possible. Do your 220 mile run? Small chance of rain Friday though. Either way I'll call you today to figure it out. You can ride my Alien and see if does anything for you as you continue to ponder your next toy. Could aslo run by FTW BMW on 121/10 before or after. I'm good with any or all. Short day today and couldn't have come soon enough:)

I may have to just kick back and wait for the next big thing to arrive.

Damn it Dragmeister please tell Kruz it already has!:)

Thursday looks good, high of 78F and clear to partly cloudy all day. Friday is a bit sketchier, cooler with AM rain, clearing later in the day.

Saturday looks sunny and cooler, same on Sunday but warmer.

Yup 220 mile run, best part is between St Jo and Lake Nocona.

You guys WILL be videoing this 220 mile run,yes?

Thursday looks good, high of 78F and clear to partly cloudy all day. Friday is a bit sketchier, cooler with AM rain, clearing later in the day.

Saturday looks sunny and cooler, same on Sunday but warmer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll call you this morning. Don't think I can get away on Turkey day, (Thursday)

Sunday looks like the best option, forecast sunny with 72F for a high, although I would take that with a grain of salt, it never warms up as quick as they say it will after a cold front blows through. . Friday is looking like a cold 37 and raining in the morning, not good. Saturday better but still pretty chilly from what I can see.

Today is the day to go, high of 80 F and gorgeous, too bad I'm stuck at work.

Damn it Dragmeister please tell Kruz it already has!:)

EVEN THE POPO RECOGNIZED...

Pretty cool...he's a tad big however...gonna get clowned about thatLOL!Either gonna love it...or hate it...he's gonna feel knida...'exposed' on that lil beemer I think Wait till the sport guys see him!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/21/2012 @ 5:03 PM *

Damn it Dragmeister please tell Kruz it already has!:)

lol Kruz is waiting for the japanese or the Italian to strike bike but I don't think it will happen soon.

Not so fast big guy, still considering the HP4 but I'd have to be daft to commit to such an investment right now. You're right though, I don't hear rumors about anything new out of Japan or Italy, looks like status quo for now. The Japs are getting left behind in the HP wars, BMW, MV and Ducati are all at 170 rear wheel HP or better. Kawasaki needs to figure out a way to de-restrict the ZX10 and still pass emissions. That's a big challenge for the
the Big Four, I hear US regs are harder for them because of the large numbers of machines they import here.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/22/2012 @ 11:17 AM *

I haven't lost faith in the Panigale. I was more disappointed by the absence of midrange than the handling issues. With Audi on board and Checa working on it in WSBK, one can't help but hope... Give it another 2 years and we should see a finalized product!

Happy Thanksgiving Day.

Grn, your going to hate us. JagMeister had the GoPro in his backpack but we never pulled over to install it, having way too much fun. We'll get some next time.

Here we are at the now famous Lazy Heart Grill in St. Jo Texas. Five minutes north is one of the best streches of road in North Texas, lots of fast smooth sweepers with lots of elevation change. Reminded me of the Texas hill country down around Fredricksburg.

We got to swap bikes, Jag rode my 10 and I rode his Beemer and we did some high speed runs, up to 140 mph. Afterward we sat down to lunch and discussed the differences and concluded these bikes performance are too close to call, I'll let Jag give you all the details. Anyway, a great ride, we'll be going again soon!

BTW, the Beemer is a much prettier bike in the BMW Racing colors, my Ninja has a kind of flat black, stealthy and under the radar look.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/26/2012 @ 7:40 AM *

[img][/img]

The ride-Outstanding mix of smooth as glass blacktop with 20-50 MPH curves, wide open sweepers, redline straigtaways, with some patchy rural services that truly tested the electronics on these bikes. I'm pretty sure I speak for Kruz when I say we brought home a few aches, wounds and dings to the bikes, (at least on my bike) from some of the most vicious gravel (boulder?) attacks I've ever experienced. The aches were from what seemed like marble sized stones finding their targets on our chest, knees and again my front fender and fairing! It was like something the 007 DB7 would release to evade the chase car:) I started it, (being in front for a change), till Kruz had enough and passed me in a flurry only to return the favor. Sounds kind of funny now, but seriously beyond the rock hits to the torso and bikes, this is where electronics on a bike DO help. The gravel strewn areas were not visible to the eye and when traveling in excess of 100mph, they can heave a stone like a Nolan Ryan fastball.

The bikes-For me this was an equally interesting part of our 5 hour outing. The ZX10-R is a favorite of mine and was the bike I was set on purchasing prior to finding the near unbelievable deal on my BMW S1000RR. I don't have any kind of brand loyalty having owned, and still own BMW's, Kawasaki's and in the past Harley Davidson's. So switching bikes with Kruz after a U-Turn and mounting the ZX10 was great fun for me.

The ZX10 felt roomier to me, with flatter, wider bars,a wider seat and just a tad lower peg position. The suspension immediately felt more pliant than the Beemer. As an owner of two prior Kawasaki's and current ZX14R, I felt very at home on the bike. While the ergo's weren't drasticaly better for me on the ZX(both have what I consider to be excellent ones), the bike felt a little flatter I'd say a bit lighter, which shouldn't be a surprise given the official weigh in statistics. We even got to actually feel what the "dry" weight of the bikes were since we were both literally running on fumes at that point:)

The Kawi offered a very linear and SMOOTH rush of power up to 130MPH, with great high speed and straight line stability. The turn in was light but stable and the bike felt very flickable and dare I say easier to ride than the Beemer. It's been reported during several comparo tests, usually after the Beemer as been awarded the #1 slot against take your pick liter bikes, that while the BMW may be a bit more challenging to ride, and ride well, it ofers the highest level of excitement and feedback. Kruz and I agreed that much of that comes from the extremely high level of straight line stability from it's auto speed damper at high speeds. This translates typically to more of a commitment to tip in with the reward being a bike that tracks mid corner as if it's on proverbial rails. The exit power of both bikes is other wordly. The Kawi, for me tipped in easier and felt easier to ride. Even after riding my S1000RR for 2000 miles now, I have to be honest and say I felt more comfortable and confident on the ZX10R than I do my BMW. Both bikes have outstanding brakes, Brembo's on the Beemer and NissenI believe on the Kawi. For me the transmission felt a bit crisper on the BMW but that was likely nothing more than what you are used to.

Now the other interesting part. Kruz is a significantly better rider than I am. I'm not suggesting that the ZX10R is a pussycat, because that is VERY far from the truth. However, it's overall setup for the street, suspension, lighter steering, and extremely linear power delivery made it feel less of a hot rod. The BMW is edgier and IMO is best ridden by those with higher than average riding skills, which Kruz has, while I would consider mine average. One of the Brit magazine reviews, (while giving the S1000 a 10/10 and #1 ranking)said it was exhilerating to ride but not one you would ever describe as refined. I agree with this to a certain extent, but feel that statement is embellishing a bit. Both bikes are very refined but the Kawi feels more built to bridge the gap for street and track while the Beemer seems to be track focused first without losing sight of the fact that 90% of riders will never see a track.

I will have to give the nod on fit and finish to the S1000RR. The components used seem to be notch above the Kawasaki and there is an overall feeling of a bike with something a bit special, (my opinion of course.) This is not to say the Kawi suffers in any way from the fit and finish department. It is very well screwed together and has quality feel not unlike any Honda. For me, the Kawi is a very handsome, if not a bit vanilla bike. It's not really about making any kind of fashion statement, relying more on it's performance pedigree. I for one would love to see Kawasaki sex their machines up a bit more, but thats just me:)

The BMW trumps the ZX10 with heated grips, a quick clutchless shifter, and IMO better guages and overall instrument cluster. I'm not a fan of the digital tach and light show. I also found it harder to read speed and gear indicator. That really was the single thing, on a back to back comparison where the Kawi paled to the Beemer.
Where does that leave me? With a HUGE respect for the mighty ZX10-R! Fast, comfortable, pliant, great handling in a class leading 175HP liter bike. Not that I need it, and definitely not ready to sell or trade the BMW, incredible bike that it is, it leaves me remembering how much I enjoyed riding the Kawi and how if it met all other categories, for a rider of my skill level, it might be a bike that fits me better and I even enjoy riding more. That's about as honest of a review as I can provide:) Kruz, I spent a lot time on the ZX10-R, and this of course wasn't the first time I've ridden one by any means, but I had forgotten just how damn good these bikes are. Perhaps you can provide your own assessment and your POV regarding the BMW.

Sorry for the long post, but I actually enjoyed putting my thoughts in writing as I think about the ride.

* Last updated by: Jagman on 11/26/2012 @ 10:15 AM *

GREAT!I'm glad ya'll got together and rode.Cool pics there...sounds like a total blast you guys had!And yer in one piece....!!!!Next time....GOPRO(plz) .Both bikes look fine....very cool!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/26/2012 @ 9:48 AM *

I agree with most of what Jag had to say. The BMW is race taut, suspension is definitely setup for track where minimum chassis pitch is essential to quick lap times. some of the rougher roads were beating Jag up a bit. The 10R is a Cadillac by comparison and on these hairy back roads we both greatly appreciated the 10's compliant suspension setup that gives you the confidence to really rail when the road conditions are sketchy.

Hands down I preferred the TC on the ZX-10R, it is so smooth you can't tell it's working, the Beemer would cut in abrubtly when I nailed it hard like the front end was going to come up or back tire start spinning but then the TC stepped in and stopped the party. It never slammed my nutz on the fuel tank but it was always there. Brakes on both machines were fabulous...enuf said. The 10R is light handling at low and high speeds and turns in quickly even when well over 100 mph. The Beemer is equally light and accurate at lower speeds but the speed sensitive damping stiffens things up at high speed...as it should, again very race track oriented. No headshake evident from either bike at any speed and man we were hitting some rough roads at well up in triple digits.

The BMW feels higher more like you sit on top of it, the 10R feels slammed by comparison, like a lowered drag bike. Beemer has higher and more swept bars, 10Rs are lower with less sweep. I felt more comfortable with the ergo triangle on the 10, the BMW is more race track focused, feet up high.

Powerwise we did full throttle blasts up to about 140 mph and neither one of us could get away from the other. I think if you were to get up into the 12,000 to 14,000 rpm range on a racetrack, the S1000RR's extra payload of ponies would make themselves known but on real roads they feel equally powerful.

The 10R engine is glassy smooth at any rpm, the BMW has a slight high register buzz but you're really screaming the motor at that point and it is comparable to most Jap inline fours.

Speaking of Jap inline fours, you can drop into the BMW saddle and feel right at home as everything is conventional in layout if you are used to Japanese sport bikes. Jag told me he new he was in trouble five minutes into his ride, he wanted to pick up a new 10R. I think that would be awesome if he had both parked in his garage.

Fit and finish, the BMW is a premium machine, little touches like a machined upper triple clamp versus a more conventional cast clamp on the 10R and the Beemers swingarm is a work of art, built up from pressed aluminum sections welded to castings. It looks as solid as a bridge girder but feather light at the same time and it is polished out to a high degree. The extra $3000 shows up here in the finishing touches and the BMW Motorrad Special paint is gorgeous.

The 10R's looks are all business like the designer said form will follow function on this baby.

Interestingly, Jag was instantly comfortable when he rode my 10R, I took some getting used to the Beemer before feeling confident to really turn it in hard.

I preferred the BMW analog instrument layout to the 10Rs Flash gordon LED tachometer.

Ok, bottom line which bike is better? That is impossible to answer because they have completely different feel and character but both get the job done equaly as well.

We both agreed the S1000RR is an expert's machine that happens to have enough electronics to make it rideable by a relative amatuer while the 10R is everyones sport bike, hop on and haul ass with no time wasted getting used to the machine.

The S1000RR is edgier, angrier as Jag called it like it's just a bit pissed off, the 10R is more like a friendly puppy wagging it's tail and playfully asking if that's all you got. The BMW is going to require more committment to wring everything out of it and tame it but that has it's own rewards.

I know it sounds like a cop out but buy the one you like best...and can afford.... and then make it your own and have fun!

Well....you both have an excellent review....that's what Imma talkin about.Real world comparos and unbiased.Glad you two went and had a rippin time...and came back safe.Two killer machines...two openminded riders...very cool.Thanks for the write ups....great job and ya had fun!I'm just too 'tall' for that 10R....otherwise....

Grn, you can see how tall I am in that picture, 10R is all day comfy. If I had the money to burn I'd pick up the HP4 version of the BMW for kicks but am really happy with the 10R for now. Anyway, you have to have a lot of confidence in your machine to push the envelope on track or a fast road and both of these machines give you that confidence. It's no wonder both are dominant machines in Superstock competition.

Grn-Both bikes are comfortable, relatively speaking for purpose built bikes. I found the Kawi to be more comfortable with more room to tuck. There was no large margin of difference however in comfort on the bikes.

Something else I forgot to add was I found the ZX10 to have more than ample mid-range and not lacking there at all. In fact, as Kruz mentioned the glassy smooth nature of the beast was an absolute joy to push hard right in the heart of the rev band and feel the silky 4 respond with a LOT of punch. I wouldn't say it had more than the BMW but it certainly didn't have less. It's an area of criticsm in several reviews I've read and I don't get it. Maybe it's just a matter of perspective.

Kruz--ever get a chance to check out your front fender or fairing for paint chips? I got a few smallish ones on the fender,and one pretty good gouge on the upper left fairing from the gravel storm. Gotta get some Alpine White touch up paint.

Sorry Jag, I didn't look very close at the bike, washed the bugs off the windscreen and cleaned up the wheels which were filthy! My bod took most of the shrapnel off your back tire, big red welt on my left pec and bruised right shin right below the knee. Man I was digging both of these bikes, how often do you get to ride two of the best sportbikes in the world back to back and wring 'em out.....outstanding?

Dragmeister needs to ride both of these to make up his mind but he'll be happy with either one.

At some point I may add an HP4 to the litter, wow what a gorgeous machine! I think I would buy the Bimmer just to drool over!

Agreed on the 10R midrange paradox, I rode my CBR this evening, King of the Midrange and it felt tame, I could almost swear the 10 has it beat on midrange pull, it's got me scratching my head.

Dragmeister, where fore art thou?

Why is this write up not in ride reports please put it there because it is awesome!!!!!!!!and can you guys race the BMW vs the 14 on video roll on and from a dig than switch riders and race again so we can see a non biased video of what is faster?

Why is this write up not in ride reports please

I think it was determined years ago that nobody reads Kruz' threads unless posted in GENERAL.

the argument is that if the topic is about anything at all having to with the 14, then GENERAL is appropriate.

Wait--this thread isn't about the 14!! I guess you have to put the 14 in it somehow. Race the Beemer. ..will have to go to 180, at least to be of any real value. Don't do it in front of the popo.

think it was determined years ago that nobody reads Kruz' threads unless posted in GENERAL

lol...Rook, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I've ever posted anywhere but the General section!

BTW, IMHO this thread is relevant to the 14 forum since Jag owns a 14R and I own a 14 and we are giving performance evaluations relative to those two machines.

We also intend to do a future feature article, "Red River Shootout" between the 14 and 14R, back to back, swap bikes and evaluate. That should be interesting and informative, same format, couple hundred miles of backroads, slow, fast, a good mix.

One thing I liked about our ride and evaluation of these bikes on Sunday, our opinions were formed over several hundred miles of back road and highway, not a staged 9 second drag race or fourth gear rollon. We rode the bikes together just like you would with your buddies, twisties, high speed sweepers etc. each guy riding his bike and selecting his own gears for maximum performance on his machine. That could be a reason that the 10R surprised us with it's midrange pull, no staged rollons, find the gear that works for you and bang the shifter and also why the bikes seemed to be so even in performance.

Anyway, I'd love to pick up a Beemer at a good price and be able to do my own long term comparison. Over many thousands of miles certain traits begin to show up that you miss in a short test ride. I rode my CBR over the exact same route the prior weekend and it beat the crap out of me, I came back feeling like a whoopped puppy. The 10R this weekend, I got back feeling fresh. I think it comes down to comfort and suspension differences. I have definitely lost respect for the CBR now.