quote]What modes did you guys ride in? Was the Beemer more prone to wheelie?

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Drag--I move around from sport, (a tad less throttle response and TQ/HP with less lean angle intrusion) to Race, (fair amount crisper throttle response TQ/HP with more lean angle before intrusion.) I'd say 80% of the time I'm in Race though. Moving to slick keeps the fueling pretty much the same as Race but allows for about 10% more lean angle.
See below:
http://image.sportrider.com/f/36281890/146-1203-14-z+2012-BMW-S-1000-RR+torque-curve.jpg

* Last updated by: Jagman on 11/28/2012 @ 10:17 AM *

Dyno reports can be misleading, a bike can have big midrange numbers but slow throttle response and not feel as quick as a bike with weaker numbers but revs out quickly. I think Jag and I noticed the same thing, the 10 feels lively, punchy in the midrange despite what the dyno says. Same thing on the BMW

Exactly! Both bikes feel very punchy to me, and I believe it's largely based on how good the fueling is and how linear and smooth the engines pull. On my BMW, for 2012 anyway, the power is very linear with less of a peaky top end blast than on the pre 12 bikes. Every bit as much top end, but just not as hard of a hit. It also rides very smoothly in the upper parts of the rev band, thus kind of always being in the power band. For the ZX10, as I've observed, given what I perceive to be a bit taller gearing, (1st gear for sure), and the Japanase SMOOTH factor, running that bike in 3rd gear when the CBR might be in 4th or even 5th due to the torque difference is not a problem. With the BMW and the ZX10, but particularly the 10R, it's very easy to stop paying attention to the gear you're in due to the complete lack of vibration and noise intrusion. I may be way off here but that's how it "feels" to me and another reason why the whole issue of where the torque peak is, for me is a non issue. If the 10R (and Beemer to small degree less), exhibited significantly more noise, vibration and harshness to realize the same effect in a lower gear, it would be much more of an issue.

Awfully quite out there, too quiet, I wonder if Jagmeister is down at the Kawsaki dealer making a bid on that 2012 ZX-10?

If you get it Jag, go with the Austin Racing GP3 Slipon, about $1200. Keep the stock titanium headers, they are very good, nothing to gain by going aftermarket. Have ECU Unleashed or Guhl do your ECU reflash to Euro specs and specific to the GP3 pipe. You will have an absolute missile on your hands, get ready! As for me, I'm staying stock, I like the fact I can push that bike hard and it never feels like it's going to get away from me on those back roads....confidence baby!

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LOL---well you know, I'm kind of coming down from the hysteria and thinking maybe a calmer head is prevailing. Maybe a bit like your infatuation with the MV?:)
Who knows where I'll end up, but I am taking the 14R in to the dealer Saturday for scheduled service and I'm sure I won't be able to resist taking another hard look at what's on the floor. The Black/Red I saw was at Ft Worth Kawasaki, along with the black/white 13. If Grapevine has a Red/Black 12 on the floor they are trying to give away, who knows:)
Honestly, now that the fever has gone down, I'm kind of taking a slow down approach and thinking if I add a Jap liter to the fleet, (and it's looking like I will), I want to be sure it's one that gets me as excited as the BMW. Your 10R definitely did that day, but now wondering, as you have been, if Honda will respond in 14 with some next big thing or even Yamaha for that matter. The single biggest issue with buying Japanese motorcycles is the horrible resale value. If you aren't someone who hangs on to them for several years, (and I do with some bikes), you are digging one hole after another. There is no other Euro bke that interests me in the slightest other than the S1000RR.
What I'm really looking forward to doing, after all this talking this week:), is getting back on the BMW and paying even closer attention to the characteristics of what I consider to be a phenominal bike. But have to admit, SOMETHING about your ZX10 really really spoke to me that day. Kind of weird.
Oh yeah...still gotta take the K1600GT in for a warranty water pump and pick up some up some Alpine White touch up paint for the S1000. Those three rock dings on the fender and the fairing are going to drive me nuts. Also I never have good luck with touch up paint...always looked...well "touched up.":)

* Last updated by: Jagman on 11/28/2012 @ 10:42 AM *

Oh yeah...still gotta take the K1600GT in for a warranty water pump and pick up some up some Alpine White touch up paint for the S1000. Those three rock dings on the fender and the fairing are going to drive me nuts. Also I never have good luck with touch up paint...always looked...well "touched up.":)

Dang, I'm sorry, kind of afraid to go out in the garage and look at mine, don't see how the bike could have been missed if I got pelted that bad. Main thing would be a hit to the radiator, how was yours?

You hit the nail on the head with that torque thing and gear selection. I tend to run a lower gear and more rpm with the 10R than with the CBR because the 10 is so smooth and CBR has vibration and intake noise at around 5000 to 6000 rpm. Maybe that was what KHI engineers were trying to tell us back in '11 when they first intro'd the bike.

Do not resell your Jap bike, hang on to it. I have every sport bike I've ever bought still in the garage (except Gen 3 ZX-10R) and enjoy them all. You can't lose anythng if you don't sell! If you have to have the latest greatest toy out there than you must be willing to pay the price. On those roads we were riding you won't be able to tell any difference and may find the older models have more useable punch down low and are pounds lighter.

i was going to suggest to Drag that he pick up a really clean 4 to 5 year old literbike that was never modded, adult owned and maybe 1800 miles for 1/2 the price of new. Choose your mods carefully to bring it up to 2013 specs and go have fun without the worries of a new bike and insurance premiums.

If you got to the track there are always some really fast guys riding older bikes and outrunning everybody. Good bike setup and rider skill make the difference.

I remember Rook saying he didn't see too many new racebikes at BlackHawk Farms, they were all beat up from many crashes and had aftermarket race fairings.

Who knows where I'll end up, but I am taking the 14R in to the dealer Saturday for scheduled service and I'm sure I won't be able to resist taking another hard look at what's on the floor. The Black/Red I saw was at Ft Worth Kawasaki, along with the black/white 13. If Grapevine has a Red/Black 12 on the floor they are trying to give away, who knows:)

My money says you ride home on that new Red/Black '12. Your garage would look sick with the BMW and that ZX-10R with an Austin Racing pipe parked side by side. The '13 gets only the electronic steering damper and different colors for a bigger hit to the wallet. I've never noticed any headshake on mine with the standard Ohlins damper.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/28/2012 @ 12:25 PM *

BTW, the electronic damper will stiffen up the '13 10s turn in at high speed, one of the thngs you liked about mine was the light steering at high speed.

You will also need the matching 6R to complete the set and for those days when you're feeling manic..... LOL....you're old lady's going to kill me if she ever finds out who I am!

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/28/2012 @ 12:55 PM *

Dang, I'm sorry, kind of afraid to go out in the garage and look at mine, don't see how the bike could have been missed if I got pelted that bad. Main thing would be a hit to the radiator, how was yours

I had just installed the Cox radiator and oil cooler guards a couple of weeks prior to the ride, so I'm sure there was no actual damage. I haven't looked at the guards themeselves to see if there's any chip's but I wouldn't care given that that's what they're for.

Interesting comment about the CBR being Vibey up around 6-7K vs the smoothness of the ZX10. I've read that before about the CBR and always felt like it contradicts everything else said about the CBR's refinement, but more than a few reviews mention that they are a bit more vibey than other liters. I hate vibrations. My Connie had a bit of that when the revs mounted and it drove me nuts. The 10R seemed to have none.

ZX-14, ZX-10R and ZX-6R are all vibration free from idle to redline and torque curves are also smooth without humps and dips, CBR hits hard off the bottom then feels a bit flat to me in that 5000 to 6000 rpm range with noticeable vibes in first gear. Curiously it doesn't vibrate in the upper gears in that range, pretty smooth. The torque curve has a couple dips and bumps beween idle and 5000 but the Akrapovic really helped smooth things out. I have pulled many an accidental wheelie and smoked many a tire on corner entry on the CBR so the power is definitley there. I think my 10 is more refined than the Honda, everything from power delivery to brakes and handling seems silky smooth. The Honda was the gold standard before though so it's still good and fun to ride, just doesn't have quite the user friendly interface of the 10R.

Yeah buying 5-6 years old and upgrading would make sense but I want a different story this time. Plus I wouldn't be saving that much money. Let's say 2008 ZX-10...
Price of the bike: 7000
Full system: 2000
That's already 9 grands! I guess it'll depend of my insurance rate. I pay $46 with progressive right now but I've got a nasty ticket that'll show up next spring. If the premium is too high I may just buy used (who knows maybe you'll be wanting to sell your 10 for a new red and black . If everything go according to plan this baby is mine:

Hey Jag, if you're going to get anything else, get the ZX-6, same colors schemes but class leader when you don't factor the the 657 R in.

Hey Jag, if you're going to get anything else, get the ZX-6, same colors schemes but class leader when you don't factor the the 657 R in.

Yep, makes a lot of sense since it would be a lot different from your Beemer, the 10 is going to be very similiar. That 6R is cute as a bug in rug in the new colors and they bumped it to 636cc to compete with the 675R. Has the KTRC traction control off the 10R this year to sweeten the deal...and a whole lot cheaper!

BTW, weather looks good for the weekend, actually warmer than last Sunday. You up for another ride, I'll bring the 6R so you can see a Supersport in action. It gives up almost nothing to a liter until you get into those long, crazy fast sections where you can hold a liter wide open. Back in the tighter, 60 to 70 mph twisty stuff they're almost untouchable.

Don't forget to set the go pro this time!

Also I never have good luck with touch up paint...always looked...well "touched up.":)

I'd leave it alone, these bikes do get a bit dinged up if you ride them hard and it gives them a touch of character IMHO. BTW , nobody notices except you. I haven't found any rock damage on mine yet but still looking, need to get it out of the garage and into some bright light and give it a thorough going over.

I scratched the upper fairing on my 6R right on the corner and it was bugging me so I stuck a tiny Yoshimura decal over it......I never notice it anymore. A couple of tastefully applied racing decals might do the trick as long as it doesn't look gaudy.

That's one of the problems with having a pretty bike like yours with the special BMW Motosports paint, it's almost too pretty to ride.

Man, I'm chompin at the bit to go ride this weekend, Drag, wish you were a bit closer.

[quote][Yep, makes a lot of sense since it would be a lot different from your Beemer, the 10 is going to be very similiar. That 6R is cute as a bug in rug in the new colors and they bumped it to 636cc to compete with the 675R. Has the KTRC traction control off the 10R this year to sweeten the deal...and a whole lot cheaper!

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/quote]

Yeah it does make the most sense, but I have ridden 6's and I just really don't have any desire to own one, right or wrong.

. If everything go according to plan this baby is mine:

BTW, weather looks good for the weekend, actually warmer than last Sunday. You up for another ride, I'll bring the 6R so you can see a Supersport in action

Quite possible, but can't commit at this time. We're going to watch the Cowboys lose Sunday night at the Deathstar, and I think I have some "stuff" I gotta take care of that morning/afternoon. I will text or call you Saturday though if that changes? I'm taking the 14R in Saturday morning for scheduled service and picking up the K1600 after the new water pump was installed. I was kinda thinking the Cadillacs would be fun next trip through those giant sweepers.

I'd leave it alone, these bikes do get a bit dinged up if you ride them hard and it gives them a touch of character IMHO. BTW , nobody notices except you

You are right about noone else noticing and wish I could just write them off as character marks but I've never been able to do that with any bike I've owned. It will drive me crazy. Honestly before I place the order with ColorRite for the touch up pen, primer and clearcoat, I'm going to put a very small piece of gloss white electrical tape on the gouge and see if makes me feel better:) It is on the fold of the upper fairing so unfortunately theres no place to tastefully place a white and black Shoei sticker or something.

Actually, I'm going to get the red, blue, white... something about the French flag lol

I didn't notice there were a lot of rocks on the road this summer, but this fall was another story! Everything get worst once you reach the triple digit. I've gotten hit on the hands, torso (I'm glad I bought a chest protector for my dainese jacket) and right on the visor. The bike front fairing was dinged up pretty good as well. Touching up make things look worst in my opinion. I'll just wait till it get worst and buy new fairing. $290 for a front cowl is expensive but it's the price to pay I guess. Washing and waxing the bike before a ride helps, I should do it more often.

Ok let me know, in the meantime I'm trying to find out if anyone else is up for a ride. Could take the "Cadillacs" out there, would be interesting to see how they handle all those bumps.

I understand your feelings on the 6R, they're not for everyone. Super Sports take a high level of commitment to ride fast i.e. high corner speed, a zillion rpm and keeping it right in the meat of the power band. Get sloppy and you're going backward fast as your bike immitates the acceleration characteristics of a Toyota Corolla, get it right though and you feel like your really doing something special.

Holler at me if you can go.

$290 for a front cowl is expensive

Touching up make things look worst in my opinion

Agree, if it is small I ignore it, if it's big enough to annoy me, I replace the part. I have had good luck touching up flat black dings with a black felt tip marker, they just disappear if they're small.

Hate to say it folks but my fever pitch for a new bike is dying down. All this new bike talk gets me excited but then I realize I really don't need anythng else right now.

I got you covered for half that price, brand new '06 front cowl still in the box in Passion Red. Your local Maaco will squirt it black for a couple of bucks or do it yourself. Or imitate the new ZX-6R and mix Passion Red/Black for a fresh look.....or pay $290 and get a black one...lol!

Let me talk to a couple of guys and see if they can exactly match the color and how much, they're going to charge.

Hate to say it folks but my fever pitch for a new bike is dying down. All this new bike talk gets me excited but then I realize I really don't need anythng else right now.

A 14-14R comparo would be awesome. You guys got enough bike to have a dedicated bike test section here. lol I woulda love to bring my 14 up there (I got a place in Dallas I can spend the night at) but my baby is completely naked and I'm going to take my time putting her back together. I'm curious to hear Yosh pipes on a 14 and CT-Duals on a 14R... maybe sometime this spring.

Holler at me if you can go.

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I will for sure. I've ridden the Caddy back there several times, just not north of St Jo and it's a magic carpet ride for the most part.

Actually, I'm going to get the red, blue, white... something about the French flag lol

"Touching up make things look worst in my opinion"

Agree, if it is small I ignore it, if it's big enough to annoy me, I replace the part. I have had good luck touching up flat black dings with a black felt tip marker, they just disappear if they're small.

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A 14-14R comparo would be awesome. You guys got enough bike to have a dedicated bike test section here. lol I woulda love to bring my 14 up there (I got a place in Dallas I can spend the night at) but my baby is completely naked and I'm going to take my time putting her back together. I'm curious to hear Yosh pipes on a 14 and CT-Duals on a 14R... maybe sometime this spring

We will definitely do that but you need to come join us.

Hate to say it folks but my fever pitch for a new bike is dying down. All this new bike talk gets me excited but then I realize I really don't need anythng else right now

Same here Kruz. Neither of us do. Plus my wife won't put a contract out on you this way:) I will still say though, for whatever reason, the moment, road, weather or a zen moment that ZX-10R spoke to me that day. And that's no dis to the awesome S1000RR. Riding the 10R just made me remember how much I love that bike. You remember when we pulled over to swap back and I told you "I think I'm in trouble"? You looked at me like, "Oh crap, what's up with this dude"?:)

* Last updated by: Jagman on 11/29/2012 @ 3:55 PM *

.... but my baby is completely naked and I'm going to take my time putting her back together.

I'd take my time too, maybe you can take her out to dinner afterwards!