Kaw could stop the bleeding by simply letting us know what the fix will be offically.If it was something really easy I think someone at Kaw would have let that fix just happen to leak out.The upside for Kaw is people are talking about the bike even people like me that would not buy it if it made 200whp.

Bad in Black wrote:

I'm glad I'm not a liter guy lol

We gonna have to fix that B in B!

This hype thing cuts both ways. In the case of the new BMW they drove it to a fever pitch and then delivered the goods. Maybe not a perfect bike but far enough ahead of the pack to justify all the hype. I'd say mission accomplished, BMWs sales have gone through the roof as a result.

In KHI's case with the new 10r release, I think everyone is getting exhausted. Kawasaki if you're listening, cut the crap and give us the straight scoop on this bike and the power fix. After you've pissed off all the guys who bleed green, who'dya think you're gonna sell these things too?

I gotta funny feeling you'll be able to pick one of these up this time next year for $8600 drive out....LOL!

* Last updated by: Kruz on 10/21/2010 @ 7:20 AM *

This hype thing cuts both ways. In the case of the new BMW they drove it to a fever pitch and then delivered the goods. Maybe not a perfect bike but far enough ahead of the pack to justify all the hype. I'd say mission accomplished, BMWs sales have gone through the roof as a result.

You know the controversy concerning the HP as people talking about the bike whether that’s negative or not might just not matter people because people are still talking about the bike. It’s hard to believe a successful company like Kaw is just making bad decisions for the sake of making bad decisions. People have completely lost focus on what’s really significant about this bike. I am not sure the magazines are going to give the bike a bad rap even if it only makes 3 hp more than the old bike. If the new zx10 turns circles around the CBR that alone might be good enough to do very well in the rag shootouts. The fact that the CBR beat or almost beat the s1000 in most rag shootouts even though it made less power and had no electronics at all. If new zx10 handles better than the CBR it has a chance to up end the BMW without the additional HP. The Euro spec zx10 is going to change the game for sure at least for Jap bikes. I'll go ahead and thank Kaw now for the new CBR and GSXR

It is possible the bike will sell over here, even if down on power significantly compared to the Beemer but it's going to have to be an absolute beast on the track. If it can put both the Beemer and CBR on the trailer with it's handling and track prowess KHI might still have a winner. We'll just have to wait and see willid but you know as well as I do these bikes live and die by the shootout results.

I'll go ahead and thank Kaw now for the new CBR and GSXR

Don't forget the R1, that pig is already behind the curve compared to the old school stuff and way overweight. The old girl needs to go on a serious diet, pickup about 10 to 15 ponies and get a facial cause that is one ugly mug..LOL.. JMHO so no hate mail please!

* Last updated by: Kruz on 10/21/2010 @ 11:54 AM *

If it can put both the Beemer and CBR on the trailer with it's handling and track prowess KHI might still have a winner. We'll just have to wait and see willid but you know as well as I do these bikes live and die by the shootout results.

That’s true but I think many people still look for peak Hp. Just look at all the chatter on the Internet about the new zx10 no is even talking about the low weight and electronics it’s all about the peak HP as if they all used 100% of the power of the old bike. I can see the guys that like to drag race liter bikes being pissed but unless your are some AMA Pro you are going any faster on 150 hp than you would on a 200hp bike on the track. In fact most of us will be slower on a bike with that kind of power. However for 15k I would want the option to enjoy the acceleration of a 200 Hp 440 lb bike could deliver from time to time.

I think the Beemer sells well because of big power numbers first and traction control a distant second...... lap times....... faghetaboudit! I haven't seen a single rag shootout this side of the big pond where the Beemer has won the track portion but it still has won every single one of those shootouts. If just track prowess sold bikes, I would think the current CBR would be outselling everybody.

I am not sure the magazines are going to give the bike a bad rap even if it only makes 3 hp more than the old bike. If the new zx10 turns circles around the CBR that alone might be good enough to do very well in the rag shootouts. The fact that the CBR beat or almost beat the s1000 in most rag shootouts even though it made less power and had no electronics at all. If new zx10 handles better than the CBR it has a chance to up end the BMW without the additional HP. The Euro spec zx10 is going to change the game for sure at least for Jap bikes. I'll go ahead and thank Kaw now for the new CBR and GSXR

Only thing that would have given kawi a clear win to the loyalists is the same MSRP as last year.

Try to keep them on the shelves if that were true. Think about it, buy bike, pay 4 new ECU(the pipe part is BS anyway). come in a grand cheaper and kick some ass. Clear win.

Only thing that would have given kawi a clear win to the loyalists is the same MSRP as last year.

Try to keep them on the shelves if that were true. Think about it, buy bike, pay 4 new ECU(the pipe part is BS anyway). come in a grand cheaper and kick some ass. Clear win.

That’s true but Kaw has to make some money its a brand new bike and shares very little with the old bike they have not recopied one dollar in R&D or profit. If Kaw would have designed the bike so the US got all 197 crank hp people would already be in line to pay 15k for a Jap liter bike

but Kaw has to make some money its a brand new bike and shares very little with the old bike they have not recopied one dollar in R&D or profit.

This begs the Question: How much R and D profit will Kaw recover after the new 10 sit on the show room floors for two additional years & then start selling for 8000. ?

This begs the Question: How much R and D profit will Kaw recover after the new 10 sit on the show room floors for two additional years & then start selling for 8000. ?

That's in the North AMerica where all the gimp bikes are being shipped. Ironically, it probably cost Kaw a little bit to make this special NA bike that nobody will buy. Maybe Kaw decided that even a 200 hp ZX-10 wouldn't sell enough in the depressed US market to justify the cost of engineering the bike to meet EPA standards. They gave up on us this year. If the rest of the world gets the powerhouse zx-10 that we are expecting, I'm sure it will be a top seller outside of the US.

Here's what I don't understand-- The rest of the world is supposed to have tighter restrictions on emissions, hp and noise so why do they get the hopped up ZX-10 and here in NA we get a toned down version.?????

Here's what I don't understand-- The rest of the world is supposed to have tighter restrictions on emissions, hp and noise so why do they get the hopped up ZX-10 and here in NA we get a toned down version.?????

That's a Great question. Why ? Not sure who we are supposed to be pissed at, our governments or Kawi. I would not blame Kawi unless they make it Extremely difficult us to change back.

Just got a invite from our local dealer to come see it,,,,,Nope. In 2 years maybe. This bike will be a awesome left over.

I have a 2011 black ABS version on order and just based on the advanced electronics (traction control and ABS) would have ordered this bike. Kawasaki has said that that the North American version mechanically is the same as other markets that have the higher hp rating. A "race only" ECU may be needed to restore the full power capabilities for the US market - so what. It's not just the EPA and DOT regulations about which motorcycle manufacturers are concerned. The US is an extremely litigious country - much more so than most other parts of the world. Exotic vehicle manufacturers have more legal challenges in the US than anywhere else. I'm surprised that BMW and Kawasaki are willing to offer this much performance in the American market.
The angst and hand wringing over this issue obscures what the real advances are with this design. The faster sample and intervention rates for both the traction control and ABS electronics, the link of the ABS control unit back to the ECU and the claimed predictive optimum traction features should be significant advancements on a street motorcycle. Fast and small incremental changes that assist in maintaining control are less noticeable and intrusive. Purists may not like all of the electronic intervention - but this is really the only way to gain some semblance of control over the extreme power / weight ratios, and other performance aspects of cutting edge motorcycle design (electronic controls are the only way that modern extreme performance aircraft stay in the air). Approximately 200 hp with possibly 200 mph capability - enjoy it while you can - in this day and age, it's not going to last for long.

The angst and hand wringing over this issue obscures what the real advances are with this design. The faster sample and intervention rates for both the traction control and ABS electronics, the link of the ABS control unit back to the ECU and the claimed predictive optimum traction features should be significant advancements on a street motorcycle. Fast and small incremental changes that assist in maintaining control are less noticeable and intrusive. Purists may not like all of the electronic intervention - but this is really the only way to gain some semblance of control over the extreme power / weight ratios, and other performance aspects of cutting edge motorcycle design (electronic controls are the only way that modern extreme performance aircraft stay in the air). Approximately 200 hp with possibly 200 mph capability - enjoy it while you can - in this day and age, it's not going to last for long.

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I agree with you a 1000% congrats that is going to be on heck of a bike

Bluestar wrote:

The faster sample and intervention rates for both the traction control and ABS electronics, the link of the ABS control unit back to the ECU and the claimed predictive optimum traction features should be significant advancements on a street motorcycle.

willidx wrote

The Moto GP traction control is the same simple system used on the C14

Kruz wrote:

Have you read the traction control specifications? It is a much more advanced system than found on the C14, ditto on the ABS brake system. The traction control leans heavily towards the sport end of the spectrum especially in the most agressive of the three selectable modes. the TC is designed to maintain the rider on the ragged edge of maximum traction

willidx wrote:

yes its the same system that allows for more slip thats it from what I read. Not say it won't work just as well or better than the BMW justbecuse its not as advanced/complicated as the BMW system

Ok now I'm really confused, is it the same simple system used on the C14 or a significant advancement on a street motorcycle?

The US is an extremely litigious country - much more so than most other parts of the world.

Now you've hit on the real problem and the main reason why the Big Four were afraid to incorporate the new TC technology until now. We hear traction control, lawyers hear "Crash Proof" and then get ready to start chasing ambulances. I hope their is a healthy disclaimer with these bikes, no motorcycle will ever be crash proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTg7PUSVidI

* Last updated by: Kruz on 10/25/2010 @ 12:17 PM *

willidx wrote:

"yes its the same system that allows for more slip thats it from what I read. Not say it won't work just as well or better than the BMW just becuse its not as advanced/complicated as the BMW system"

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 10/25/2010 @ 12:51 PM *

Hey it's all cool... just messin with ya willid , besides, I get to change my mind all the time as new facts are presented.

If the TC really is that good, then the HP deficit of the U.S. version relative to the BMW might not make any difference...at least on the track. I noticed Sport Rider gave their Motorcycle of The Year award to the Aprilia RSV4 Factory based on it's overall track performance even though the Beemer was miles ahead on the dyno. I don't remember who said it first but you can't ride a spec sheet.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 10/25/2010 @ 1:29 PM *

If the TC really is that good, then the HP deficit of the U.S. version relative to the BMW might not make any difference.

Going forward Every rag will be posting the results of this test. Things have Been quiet lately with the "Global Economic Downturn". Lets face it, this compare will be all the talk. Looks like cycle world may be the first to post the results. I hope they are honest.

I bought the November issue of CW with the new ZX-10 on the cover, rushed home to read it and was very disappointed in the content. Nothing new in there that hadn't been hashed and rehashed over on ZX10r.net at least a thousand times. The bad thing about a one off test is that all these bikes are brilliant when ridden alone. It's only when you do a comparison that the true differences begin to emerge. CW will probably test the bike and proclaim it is the greatest thing since the invention of sliced bread....remember the launch of the crossplane crank R1 a few years ago? That bike was a specially prepared ringer, no R1 ever performed like that again, hopefully KHI won't do the same.

Sport Rider mag did an article in the December issue. I don't know if it's a rehash, but a nice 4 page article.

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/2011/146_1010_2011_kawasaki_zx_10r_kit/index.html

Bad in Black wrote:
I'm glad I'm not a liter guy lol
========================================================================================================================
Big K wrote:
We gonna have to fix that B in B!
========================================================================================================================

I think I might pick myself up a track only 600 or 1000 Big K, just to see what this track things all about. I've been riding the streets for most of my life, I still love it, but I'd like to try something new, and the sportbike club I've been hanging with lately has been giving me the itch to try the track. So a liter may be in my future after all But it'll be the kind of liter that I can toss down, laugh about, pick up and toss down again without a second thought. Which means nothing shiny and new lol. I want to go out and have fun without having to worry about messing up a pretty bike. I'm too anal to take a shiny new machine on a track and relax and have fun. So it'll be something mechanically sound but cosmetically not "pristine", ridden on the track only.....and maybe even a 600

The 600s are a hoot Badinblack, even for big guys like us. There is just something visceral about screaming that thing at 14,000 rpm coming off a corner that is like no other bike experience. They're not going to pull like your 14 but then again they're not weak by any stretch once you get them above 10,000. Plenty fast enough to get you in trouble, especially if the road is a twisty one.

Good to know Big K, I'm still torn between getting a 1000 or a 600. I've been tearing up roads for about 29 years, but have never been on a track. The local sportbike club racers suggest I start out on a 600 for the track, but I'd still like to pick up a 1000 just because I'm used to the torque and power of bigger motors. What do you think?

Both ?

BnB-- Go with a used, already modded 600 if exclusively for track. Get a 1000 when you are ready. Unless you get a deal you can't pass up on a nice literbike.