Let's do the math here, 197 HP without ram at the crank minus 22 equals 175 HP crank which is about 155 to 160 rear wheel tops and with an 11,000 rpm redline and zero over run.... so yeah Willi, if that's the case then I won't buy one and neither will anyone else. If the rumour is a lie than Bikeland, who has been here-to-fore fairly reliable, will have to issue an official retraction and apology letter or their credibility is in the tank.

So you wouldn't buy one because of HP? The bike is full of all kinds useful tech no to mention its lighter and without a doubt will handle better than the old bike.If its is true I'll take 160hp at 11k over 160hp at 13k any day of the week when it comes to a street bike. Over rev is for race bikes and pretty much useless on a street bike unless you like making lots of noise and less than peak power.However if the bike makes another 22hp between 11k and 13k which might be the case I can see your point. Granted Bikeland might be reliable on what they report but if Kaw didn't announce the news it’s not official. I like Bikeland but it’s an Internet forum therefore you can't really use words like credibility when talking about a bike forum. Let’s try to remember its Bikeland not JAMA.

BTW....... like it or not.... horespower is everything in liter bike sales, do you think it is a mere coincidence that the number one selling sportbike in Great Britian is the new BMW S1000RR and it also juat happens to tower above the competition on the dyno? The Beemer took every shootout here in the states despite posting track times that were mediocre at best

oh I know I have always stated peak HP numbers helps move bikes off the showroom floors but you would think those of us who know better would do better right? Check Ebay 09SE zx10s are going for 8300-8600 local in the midwest are letting them go for even less. Kaw is giving away 2k rebates and 3.99 financing and the new bikes have not even hit the floors yet. The Beemer took just about every review because it was innovative. Looking at the 15k price tag of the zx10 it appears the BMW still offers more than anyone else for the money. The Gen zx10s are cult bikes they live on reputation alone so yes they seem to hold value really well. I have no idea why people like them so much in fact they are praised fo attributes that are just horrible to have in a any bike. Abrupt power, excessive head shake and no damper, overly stiff suspension. I have no idea why people thought that’s was cool even in 2004.

So yes, as far as pinnning the throttle on my Gen III ZX10R, yes, puhleeze, give me all the power you can, I love it. More power = More fun, simple equation really.

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 10/7/2010 @ 11:18 AM *

2011 zx10

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 10/7/2010 @ 11:34 AM *

So you wouldn't buy one because of HP?

Affirmative..not for $15,000.

The Beemer took just about every review because it was innovative.

20 more horsepower than the nearest competition and a 9.57 quarter mile time certainly didn't hurt.

To be honest its all about what you can use not how much you have.

Agreed and the whole idea behind Kawsaki's Race TC was to rein in those 207 ragin ponies.

Abrupt power, excessive head shake and no damper, overly stiff suspension.

Might have been true back in '04 when it won Masterbike but the Gen IIIs are now pretty refined. I love mine, probably my favorite bike, not scary in the least just very fast.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 10/7/2010 @ 1:08 PM *

So it’s in black and white on the Kaw site for Canada. The new zx10 according to the Canadian site makes 179 PS or about 177hp@ 11k rpm. It states nothing about that being the bikes max rev limit just that it makes max HP is made at 11,000 rpm. Yeah so ahhh… let’s hope the bike has some magic jumper type mod or TRE device that will unleash another 20hp for the US bike. The weight is listed at 198kg or about 436 lbs. http://www.kawasaki.ca/model/ninja-zx-10r/specs:1248

Kaw Europe list the bike at 200PS @ 13000 rpm or about 197hp @13k rpm but they also list the zx14 @193 PS and we all know better than that.So in the end who knows what the zx10 will make in terms of Hp power but we do know the Euro bike is identical to the US bike in terms of the motor. So the US bike is leaving some serious power on the table. The big question is how easy will it be to fix the US bike and even then how much power will it make? In its stock state the US bike won't match the BMW in terms of outright speed so the BMW is still the fastest stock US bike. The "fixed" bike might be just enough to do the job lets just hope it will turn and stop.
http://www.kawasaki.eu/ZX-10R

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 10/7/2010 @ 9:04 PM *

So 177 crank hp. Thats pathetic. Thats going to be weaker than all the current liters at the rear wheel. I'm still in shock over this deal. I really thought this new 10 was going to be a milestone bike, a bike that would make history, like the busa. And they say you have to buy a race ecu (through kawi) and full exhaust package to get the power back. That'll probably cost several grand AT LEAST. So you buy the 10 for close to 15 grand, then the ecu/exhaust package, and you'll end up spending 17,000+ or so for you're full power 10, or you can buy the bmw for 2 grand or so less. And you probably won't be able to buy the ecu for you're california 10, because changing the ecu on a california vehicle is illegal (and so is the exhaust technically) and I believe kawi's not allowed to sell the race ecu in cali, just like dynojet had to make a special power commander to sell just in california. I don't see the new 10 going over too well in the states.....although it probably will be a history maker in europe

What a disaster this turned into. Our governments really starting to have a BIG impact on our hobby. It may be time to find a few fast bikes you like and plan to hang on to them for a very long time....because I think the days of fast bikes are coming to an end. I read an interesting magazine article a while back, they did a comparison of liter bike hp gains over the last 4 or 5 years. They found that hp gains have pretty much flatlined, and recently have actually started decreasing slightly in some bikes (CBR, R1). But with the new 10 this is a MAJOR cut....a slap in the face wake up call of the changing times I think the bmw is going to be the most powerful stock, off the showroom floor bike, we ever see sold here in the states. Regulations are going to see to that

* Last updated by: BadinBlack on 10/7/2010 @ 5:40 PM *

I'm still in shock over this deal.

I'm pissed.

What a disaster this turned into.

Totally.

Air intakes blocked with tube socks 230

Ahhhhhh. Killing me. I had such big hopes.

If BMW makes more power in 2011 the BMW will be front and center of every rag Again.

I can see it now. The BMW walks the new Kawi. Kawis failed attempt to dethrone the king. On and on and on.

So 177 crank hp. Thats pathetic. Thats going to be weaker than all the current liters at the rear wheel. I'm still in shock over this deal. I really thought this new 10 was going

such a skeptic have a glass of kool aide Yep it looks like the same 200 hp the zx14 made back in 2006 right
Seriously why do you think the bike will need a ECU and a pipe to get the power the Euro bike has. Think about it they are mechanically the same bikes why would the US bike need a pipe or a race ECU? Kaw is going to make it an easy fix just like every other bike that has had some restrictions. Hell I wouldn't doubt if Kaw marketed the fix themselves and sold it as an accessory. All they would have to do is stamp it with "for off road use only" they could even cover the item under the bikes warranty or just look the other way kind of like they do with pipes and PC. This is going to be one bad mofo bike

and recently have actually started decreasing slightly in some bikes (CBR, R1)

Take the 08 cbr of the list it made about 13 hp more than the 07 cbr thats huge its also 17lbs lighter. Fix the timming issue with the 08 and that 13 turns into 18hp. You could put what ever pipe and tune the 07 anyway you want to and the 07 is still heavier and will make less power than a stock 08. hows that for progress.

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 10/7/2010 @ 9:00 PM *

I bet there were tons of excited 10 owners drooling to upgrade to the 2011 monster. Must be some pissed of 10 forums now And some real happy beemer forums I still don't understand how the bmw was able to make it through US regulations with so much power, yet the 10 gets its nuts trimmed off and stowed in the circular file?

"I'm still in shock over this deal. "

I'm pissed.

"What a disaster this turned into. "

Totally.

"Air intakes blocked with tube socks 230 "

Ahhhhhh. Killing me. I had such big hopes.

If BMW makes more power in 2011 the BMW will be front and center of every rag Again.

I can see it now. The BMW walks the new Kawi. Kawis failed attempt to dethrone the king. On and on and on.

You could put what ever pipe and tune the 07 anyway you want to and the 07 is still heavier and will make less power than a stock 08. hows that for progress.

....and the '07 doesn't burn oil like a cheap stove either...now that's real progress!

Actualy the differences between the American spec '07 and '08 CBRs are not are not that great depending upon whose figures you trust. Remember I did a lot of research on these two bikes before deciding to go with an '07. I tend to trust Road Racing World as they are the most diligent in getting the facts straight. According to their stats, the '08 is ten lbs less than the '07, 440 lbs wet vs. 450 lbs wet. Most of that weight difference is in the underseat exhaust on the '07, easily fixed with an Akra. Their '07 dynoed at 153 rear wheel hp (you have a copy of that magazine I believe) while their '08 was only a couple hp more. The big deal about the '08 is serious midrange power, although in the U.S. version, a relative lack of low and top end due to the aforementioned ECU restricition. The European version of the CBR was dominant in HP output as it was unrestricted, right there with the Zx-10r until the Beemer took the stage. Now I realize you can derestrict the '08 U. S. model and regain the lost ponies but we have to compare stock to stock here. On the road I don't think you'd be able to tell any difference, remember John Mcguiness set the all time lap record at the IOM TT on an '07.

Results Senior TT, Friday 8th June 2007:

Total No. of Completed Laps – 335 Total Mileage - 12639.55

Fastest Lap - 3 John McGuinness 17 mins 21.99 secs 130.354 mph

1 / JOHN MCGUINNESS / 2007 HONDA FIREBLADE 1000CC / H M PLANT HONDA RACING / 01 46 44.23 / 127.255
2 / Guy Martin / 2007 Honda 1000cc / Hydrex Honda / 01 47 16.96 / 126.608
3 / IAN HUTCHINSON / 2007 HONDA CBR 1000CC / H M PLANT HONDA RACING / 01 48 04.60 / 125.677
4 / Ian Lougher / 2007 Honda CBR 1000cc / Stobart Motorsport / 01 49 08.12 / 124.458
5 / Adrian Archibald / 2007 Suzuki GSXR 1000cc / Relentless by TAS / 01 49 21.61 / 124.202
6 / Conor Cummins / 2007 Yamaha YZF R1 1000cc / Team Millsport / 01 49 47.86 / 123.708
7 / Steve Plater* / 2007 Yamaha R1 1000cc / AIM Racing / 01 50 21.67 / 123.076
8 / Michael Rutter / 2007 Kawasaki ZX10 R 1000cc / MSS Discovery / 01 50 42.22 / 122.695
9 / Ian Armstrong / 2004 Yamaha R1 1000cc / Canteen Smithy / 01 51 56.08 / 121.346
10 / James McBride / 2007 Yamaha R1 1000cc / 01 51 59.14 / 121.29
11 / Chris Palmer / 2005 Yamaha R1 1000cc / Solway Slate & Tile / 01 52 10.23 / 121.091
12 / Ian Pattinson / 2006 Suzuki GSXR 1000cc / Martin Bullock Racing / 01 52 34.07 / 120.663
13 / Gary Carswell / 2007 Kawasaki ZX10R 1000cc / Bolliger Kawas / 01 52 44.30 / 120.481
14 / Mark Buckley / Suzuki GSXR 1000cc / Crossan Motorcycles / 01 52 53.42 / 120.319
15 / Les Shand / 2006 Honda CBR 1000cc / Barron Transport / 01 53 35.52 / 119.575

* Last updated by: Kruz on 10/8/2010 @ 7:14 AM *

I still don't understand how the bmw was able to make it through US regulations with so much power, yet the 10 gets its nuts trimmed off and stowed in the circular file?

Superior design and a passion to make the best bike not the most profit. I just can't get pass 15k for a Jap sportbike.

Superior design and a passion to make the best bike not the most profit

Amen to that brother! I work for a German aircraft engine company so I know the philosophy! They start businesses over there for the pure joy of doing something better than anyone else and profits be damned. I find the approach incredibly refreshing after decades of watching greedy American bean counters and CEO's pinch R&D pennies so they can pay themselves huge bonuses and report short term quarterly profits while their products lag behind technologically...think Harley here. Companies like Mercedes and BMW are engineering driven, the accountants are only called in after the fact, the reverse is true with American companies. Take one look at a typical German company, top management have engineering degrees while their American counterparts are either MBAs or CPAs. Which approach is working? Germany, smaller than the state of Texas is one of the worlds greatest exporters and absolutely kicks our a$$ while American companies struggle to find buyers for outdated and overpriced products. Pisses me off too because America has the talent to build a world class motorcycle or sports car that would compete with the best out there but alas, no will to do so. I don't see it ever changing until America changes her greedy, short sighted approach to conducting business.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 10/8/2010 @ 11:40 AM *

America has the talent to build a world class motorcycle or sports car that would compete with the best out there but alas, no will to do so. I don't see it ever changing until America changes.

That will never change until absolute profit is no longer our motive. Money truly is the root of all evil.

* Last updated by: willidx4 on 10/8/2010 @ 12:02 PM *

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
1 Timothy 6:10
KJB Version

Money's ok, just a necessary medium of exchange, it is the "love of money" we are to be on our gaurd against.

Yea, wiilid, I understand your sentiment, until America begins to do things just because they are the right thing to do and not motivated by greed and profit taking will this nation ever become great again.

"Build it and they will come!" or to paraphrase, "Build it right and they will buy!"

America has become expert at exporting fiduciary fraud from Wall Street, CDOs, Derivatives, fraudulent mortgage backed securities, ad nauseum, we have bankrupted the entire world with this BS.

BnB

It may be time to find a few fast bikes you like and plan to hang on to them for a very long time....because I think the days of fast bikes are coming to an end.

Willid and Kruz

I work for a German aircraft engine company so I know the philosophy! They start businesses over there for the pure joy of doing something better than anyone else and profits be damned.

America has the talent to build a world class motorcycle or sports car that would compete with the best out there but alas, no will to do so. I don't see it ever changing until America changes.

That will never change until absolute profit is no longer our motive. Money truly is the root of all evil.

You look at the craft traditions of the various guilds of N Europe during the 400 or so years we call the Renaissance and there is no question that quality and pride in one's work was the motivation. The church had to pay for that then and consumers would have to pay for it now. It can be very difficult to make something of high quality that is also profitable. It takes more time / better materials to produce and it dose not need to be replaced as often. Nobody expects things to last very long anymore. Planned obsolescence has been a key point in industrial design for a few decades....at least materials produced for sale to the general public.

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/8/2010 @ 3:31 PM *

You look at the craft traditions of the various guilds of N Europe during the 400 or so years we call the Renaissance and there is no question that quality and pride in one's work was the motivation. Someone has to pay for that. The manufacturer or the consumer. It can be very difficult to make something of high quality that is also profitable. It takes more time / better materials to produce and it dose not need to be replaced as often. Nobody expects things to last very long anymore. Planned obsolescence has been a key point in industrial design for a few decades....at least materials produced for sale to the general public.

Brook Stevens started it all for us. Thanks Brook. Glad you made a pile of money on that. Walmart loves you.

From Wiki
Origins of planned obsolescence go back at least as far as 1932 with Bernard London's pamphlet Ending the Depression Through Planned Obsolescence.[2] However, the phrase was first popularized in 1954 by Brooks Stevens, an American industrial designer. Stevens was due to give a talk at an advertising conference in Minneapolis in 1954. Without giving it much thought, he used the term as the title of his talk.[3]
From that point on, "planned obsolescence" became Stevens' catchphrase. By his definition, planned obsolescence was "Instilling in the buyer the desire to own something a little newer, a little better, a little sooner than is necessary."[3]

^^Sounds so much like what grabs us in the world of high performance bikes. Seems like they are quite durable in spite of the constant performance updates.

Rook wrote: It will be interesting if this new US 10 has an ace up its sleeve but at the same time i've been hoping sportbike technology had just about come to a standstill ever since I bought the 14 in 2008. I bought the best and the longer it stays the best, the happier I am with the purchase.
========================================================================================================================

Actually Rook, for years the motorcycle magazines have been predicting the eventuall end of the hp wars, and hp actually starting to decrease. It WAS actually pretty predictable. As the planned steps up in the emmissions and noise regulations have been coming into effect, its been getting harder and harder for the bike makers to increase hp and still meet the tighter restrictions. You have to remember they have these restrictions planned years in advance, and bring them in in stages. Its actually pretty incredible that the manufacturers can still do what they have done up against all the regulations the US has them meet. It looks like it was finally just to much for kawi tho. I know that honda and yamaha also struggled to a lesser degree over the last few years...and killed hp in the process. And suzuki as well with the big dual exhausts on its 1000. I'm thinking we've finally hit that wall the magazines were predicting. Power will be either flatlining, or actually start to go down like the new 10. The bmw will be the last of the powerhouses And one thing I'm pretty sure of now is no new 200+rwhp monster 14

^^^Except for yours, of course.

Cnd price zx10 with ABS,17299,BMW 17300 if I recall the 05 zx6 was only a jumper wire away from euro spec.When Lang Hindle gets one,I'll get to see the numbers.

Cnd price zx10 with ABS,17299,BMW 17300

And the ZX-10 has been neutered, hmmmmmm.

I talked to one of the guys at the dealership Saturday and he ordered a new 10r, delivery is set for December 10. He told me that it will take an ECU and a pipe to restore the Euro spec power to the 10r. These items will be available through Kawasaki dealers but will add several thousand more dollars to the price tag and are "off road" i.e. racing use only.

I got the Cycle World yesterday with the first look at the new 10 R. Some of what was in the article was contradictory to the brochure that Kawasaki Europe released last week. The CW article said topend horsepower was not a priority but increased midrange was. The brochure said that midrange was intentionally weak to make a smoother topend power curve.
Direct contradiction, somone needs to get their facts straight.

CW said the new 10r in U.S spec, would put out only slightly more horse power than the Gen III version. Gen IIIs put out a reliable 160-161 at the rear wheel so expect the 2011 U.S version to be right there.

The CW article claims the new machine is much quicker around a track than the previous generation due to the racing traction control system that is more advanced than anythng else on teh market.

We shall see shortly. I think Bad in Black is right, we are in a world where big HP may not be politically correct much longer. The BMW may be the all time HP king, from here on we may be going backward. Rook, you're going to have to have one.

BTW, BMW has not signed on to the "gentlemans agreement" to limit top speed on the S1000RR, they are unrestricted. I read a report yesterday in Fast Bikes , a Brit mag, that they had achieved 197 mph with a stock S1000RR, mostly through aerodynamic tweaks like removing mirrors, taping fairing seams etc. and a gearing change. In full stock configuration, just like you roll it off the dealers floor, they were able to get into the low 190s. I may have to have a Beemer, I don't think the new 10r is going to be a match for it in sheer horespower terms. I think the 10R may turn out to be a better bike on a race course though.