Some of the guys here are happy and Jeff promises to help the rest.... He is trying?

Apparently some of the 14 maps have worked well and the customer was satisfied but even a broken clock is right twice a day. I can't vouch for the others cause I didn't see the map or ride the bike, I can only go by my experience and it wasn't good. It was apparent from the map I received that it was not created by actual testing of a bike equipped like mine. That's what I mistakenly thought I was getting. Alarm bells were going off in my head when Jeffo kept dodging the question "So you actually developed this map on a 2007 CBR 1000RR with a Yoshimura RS-5 Full System?" He hemhawed something about a Jardine system being best but would never answer me. The "custom" map appears to be the DynoJet M125-000 zero map with some inconsequential changes made such as + fuel in the 0% throttle column which was making my low end throttle response feel soggy. Other changes were what I call "signature" entries made in portions of the map which are unuseable such as adding fuel at 100% throttle and idle rpm or adding fuel at rpms below idle. It makes the map look "different" to the untrained eye but functionally has no effect because you can't access that part of the map anyway. It was obvious that any fuel that was added or removed from the zero map in the useable portions was done by pure S.W.A.G., i.e. Scientific Wild Ass Guess! I didn't pay to be a guineau pig but that's what I felt like.

Jeffo, you could do much to redeem yourself here if you would just refund Monster14 his money. You gave him an untested product and he suffered the consequence. It's the right thing to do...just do it!

Kruz

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Romans wrote:

Great news Rook, It's a start. Which pipes did you decide on?

I am expecting a Tsukigi Cannon full system in about a week. They had to order a quiet baffle from Japan so that delayed the order. I will be starting my Auto tune from the map provided by HPC which HPC referred to as "our map." Another member here told me it is most likely a map created by Tsukigi for the ZX-14. I will Try Autotune with the Cannon and no quiet baffle first to see how big the difference is, then I plan to do a baffle in map. Next Summer I will try a a warm weather map if we actually have warm weather (God willing).

I saw a post by Dogo where he listed numbers for his map made with Autotune but these were not the final fuel trims.

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Kruz,I'll be the first to admit i dont know shit about mapping but the map i got works great from where i was with DJ's map. I've been following the postings here and since you seem to be the resident map expert I'm just curious to know your thoughts on this matter. You recieved 2 maps from Jeffo and when you put them on your bike you knew pretty much right away they werent working for you...correct? So I'm just curious as to how Monster installed his map and in his own words:

This map is just what I was looking for, the throttle is so smooth and the power is great.

just makes me wonder why your bike ran worse with jeffs map from the get go but monster took a few days to go south.
kinda makes me think something else was going on with monsters bike that just happened to coincide at the same time he made a map change. i dunno, any thoughts

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Scott, think of the next event made. It was smooth fat sooty. It took a little bit of riding to load it up like the faucet was on too long or hard and there is so much the bucket needs till it overflows.

Last event was a map accel/squeeze to the fat/rich plot. Pipes will load you up, you lift on the throttle it no longer gargles. Smooth as it runs, it has to run on ragged edge rich smooth... Not soot smooth within miles of a constant load of overload points on the map.

Kind of like watching the chopper guys over jet old carb; foul plugs because now the air ratio is off. If they have pods that flow like K&N or better, they need to slow the air. So, when I heard some guy mention he covered his pods and the jetting cleared up, that told me to keep pushing the practical event that the air needs to be flowing less so the gas can catch up in proportion. That cover over boot or roof, cured a lot of lag problems.

Now if Monster is running a stock air cleaner and it's dirty? Think I'm going to throw Jeffo under the bus if bg has a good running map and say his air cleaner is clean or K&N'd. There, in the variable of not blaming the map is the tune in question. So, I'm really neutral on this point of chasing that fouled plug(s). Give Jeffo the benny until proven innocent; that the air cleaner is innocent.

Maybe the air cleaner was the last straw? I sure am reaching for straws. Maybe that is a good map, Monster? WOT say ye on the air cleaner and now lets try to tune the map in reverse? She comes out clean, you'll know where I'll be.

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Well Scott, I rode the bike for like a mile after the map change, seemed smooth at the time. Got no other testing until I left for the trip, so the map lasted maybe 60miles before foul, I jumped the gun posting it was a good map because Jeff asked me to and he seemed nice, I know for a fact he asked you to do the same and to post a testimonal on his site, and from the way you defend him he is prolly still talking to you, I don't know. There was nothing wrong with my bike before his map, bike had like 2500 miles at the time. The air filter is a K&N and has not been in long enough to be dirty.

Oh and Jeff walked me through the whole install, of course all the other maps seem good, maybe he knows his shit on pc3
BUT he admitted this was his first pcV on a 14. We can beat a dead horse, but the fact is the map was a piece of shit!

And at no point did I ask Jeff for my money back, but considering it cost me extra money and part of my trip, it would have been nice of him to offer something. A 12 pack for the frustration maybe?

* Last updated by: Monster14 on 9/24/2009 @ 1:32 PM *

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Monster wrote:

So the day before we leave for a motorcycle rally in Ruidoso NM I get my map from Jeff, talk to him on phone make sure all is set up right, go for a test ride and its rich and blowing 3ft flames at around 2500-3k

Yup... what Hub said Scotty! Sounds like it was waaaaaay too rich from the get go. Soot built up on the porcelain and the flame went out..... 60 miles from home I'd be ready to do the Monster Mash on old Jeffo.

As I reported on my map, I had asked Jeffo why so much +fuel in column 1 (0% Throttle)and he said to cool the engine. I have never seen this done on any other map before but went along with it cause he talked a good game. I'm not a map expert but a fairly quick study and I can usually put 2 and 2 together and get 4 nine times out of ten so I was starting to have my doubts especially because of the raw fuel smell at idle. No flamethrower mode, at least I was spared that.

First map crackled at 5-6000 rpm on upshifts and felt soggy on the low end. At idle it sounded lumpy like it was loading up the plugs. Top to mid felt OK, about the same as the Fuelmoto baseline map.

Second map had more fuel in 0% column from 8% to 15% +fuel (this really raised my eyebrows) richened up between about 2000 and 7000 from 2% to 20% throttle, leaned out at 80% throttle above 8000 rpm and richened up at 100% throttle above 8000 rpm.

To be honest I had no enthusiasm to load the second map but finally decided what the heck, I've already come this far. Maybe he got it right this time.

I cranked her up and noticed idle rpm had dropped way down like she was struggling for air. Raw gas smell was evident at idle.

I took her out on the road and there was a "hitch" or delay in throttle response around 3000 rpm where she normally jumps out of the hole like a scared jackrabbit. Flat spot at 4000 had turned into the black hole of Calcutta...she fell in and didn't wanna come out.

Short shifting at 5000 rpm she popped a couple times when I rolled off the throttle and topend she felt lackluster. I remember just wanting to get the thing home before she crapped a plug.

I loaded the FuelMoto map back in, set up throttle points and she purred like a kitten again. I quit, gave up. Jeffo still was willing to tinker but I could see we were going the wrong way and my bike cost too much money to experiment with. Like Monster said, better to go with what you know.

My take is, if your map works, run it. No plug fouling, backfiring or over heating and you say it's smooth? Run it and see what happens you may have a good map. I don't want to scare you off a good thing.

If you have doubts, use Map Compare and compare the graph to a DJ map for same mods off their website. If your not comfortable, send a copy of the map to me and I will graph it and send you the results.

Kruz

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I gotta go...

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Good point Kruz, if it runs good and you like the map then go for it. Hopefully the worst that could happen is fouled plugs.

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bike had like 2500 miles at the time. The air filter is a K&N and has not been in long enought to be dirty.

Filters not the problem at 2500 miles, at 10,000 miles it might go off slightly rich but not flamethrower rich.

Lets look at that map in the abstract Monster. Pull up the map with your USBIII software and look in the 0% column, idle mixture. What numbers do you see? Most maps will have all 0's there, all the way from 500 rpm to redline. I had some big numbers in that column, very rich, I think my plugs were starting to soot up especially after map 2.

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/24/2009 @ 2:02 PM *

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hub wrote:

I gotta go...

....ladies and gentleman, Hub has left the building..

A 12 pack for the frustration maybe?

....two 12 packs, I could use some liquid refreshment right about now..

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/24/2009 @ 2:11 PM *

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Well, this has certainly been an interesting experience.

If I didn't think the map I got was so great (as it seems to be), I'd probably not comment, but it IS great.

I wonder if maybe Jeff has the ZX-14/PC III combination nailed pretty good, and just goofed by stepping forward with a ZX-14/PC V map and a map for the Honda literbike before fully understanding those bikes/maps. A mistake, to be sure...

But I wonder if we should throw the whole thing out the window because of that mistake?

I gotta say, I can barely hang on to this thing any more when I let her rip. I've ridden about 200 miles with the new map, and nothing has changed with the performance since I installed it. I haven't spent much time over 8,000 rpms, but then I rarely do. -bg

BG, it is possible that Jeffo's reach exceeded his grasp and what you describe is exactly what happened. Sometime's we can fall victims to our own success. If that's the case and Jeffo wants to develop a map for the 2007 CBR 1000, I'd be willing to give it a try but this would be a one shot deal for me. Either it works out of the chute or no bueno. He dials in the numbers on his own nickle. Monster might feel the same way on the PC5 although his feathers are pretty ruffled right now. As it is, we have a Mexican standoff. The camp appears to be deeply divided over this issue, some think he's Ivan Junior and others think he's Ivan the Terrible.

Kruz

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Hey Kruz-what year is your 14?PCIII or PC5?Are you describing a zx14 map experience,or your CBR?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/24/2009 @ 2:58 PM *

Blue, I ordered a CBR 1000 map from Jeffo, that's the one I had trouble with. I have the Ivan map on my '06 ZX-14, been on there for 3 years now and running like gangbusters. both bikes are PC3.

I'm starting to think we should give Jeffo a second chance here, call off the stormtroopers. How many are running his map and liking it? Show of hands please.

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/24/2009 @ 3:09 PM *

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Me! Me! (hand's up) -bg

Monster im sure jeff can defend himself im just trying to get an understanding of this fuel injected shit. wasnt implying anything on my comment was just trying to understand it. all my other bikes have been carberated now seems like they are easier to tune ...jet n get it...lol

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Well Kruz-I haven't been able to look at any other maps to compare the values-but I can say that your description of the Throttle position/fuel values and how they're setup sounds alot like my 14 map I got from Jeff.PCIII here.Will load it in on the 28th when I get new pipes.I can say that his map is quite a bit different than the "muzzy" map from DJ.(for slip-ons,no flies).Jeff should probably refund the $50 to you guys.I would.But-it's his reputation that's on the line-so,if he doesn't,well-that's up to him.Gordon LOVES his map.I'm hoping mine will be as good.I don't think Jeff is trying to rip anyone off-looks more like perhaps the PC 5 and the way it tunes itself(or something)is probably still in the experiment stage with Jeff.I could understand having some glitches with setting up a virtually new Powercommander Model and system.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 9/24/2009 @ 3:31 PM *

Monster, Call the ball. Cut my line or keep the drag loose, let this fish wear out and drown on it's own.

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I must admit Hub your posts have really made me smile. I guess this fish can't be caught.

We should go fishing again sometime!!! Just not on my dime

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Well, I guess Jeffo is open season then.

And Kruz wanted to open a tre thread. This is going to be one rockinn thread. Her come the LAPusssy!

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Here he comes... I'm gonna give that guy a head start.

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Hubs got a fish on

Ha ha, a real blast from the past here, this has to be one of the classic threads of all time! Thanks to by for dragging this one up from the dusty archive room.

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Not a fan of spammer tilling up old soil but this is at lesat fairly interesting in a couple ways. At least now I know wth people are talking about when Jeffo is mentioned. It also reminds me, precisely, of another "tuner's" tale... especially the part about one size fits all.

It also reminds me, precisely, of another "tuner's" tale... especially the part about one size fits all.

Interesting Vic.....who would that be with the "one size fit's all" map? I think I might already know but just wanted to confirm.

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