He called last night but I missed the call. I'm definitely going to call him this morning, if two of you are saying his map is that good there must be something to it.

Kruz

Blue07, honesty is a rare quality today, sounds like the man has integrity.

Kruz

Just all kinds of info in this thread that i do not have the time to follow at this time. It's pretty baffling. Oh god, dear god, the complexities of tuning that await me.

Hey Rook, did you take delivery of you know what yet?

Kruz

I just spent 1/2 hour on the phone with Jeffo and I am convinced that this is for real. Everything he said made sense. I've ordered one of his maps and will install it and try it out this weekend and report back. -bg

Thanks for that input BG, I think I'll do the same. If he can make my CBR run as smooth as my 14 I'll be a happy camper.

Kruz

One thing I particularly liked about my conversation with him was that at no time during out conversation did he offer to give me a free map, in hopes perhaps of my doing something special/promotional for him on the forum. A lot of guys would have offered that to a forum owner/administrator in hopes of getting something in return. He did not. Speaks to his integrity, I think... -bg

BG you need to call Jeff, he had some questions on your setup. I went ahead and ordered a map for my CBR, will let you guys know how it works for me.

Kruz

I received my map yesterday from Jeff about 30 minutes after I placed the order on Paypal. Jeff called me at lunch and we conversed about 30 minutes on what I was looking for and his philosophy on tuning. Basically, what I had guessed in a previous post was true. Rather than tune on the dyno using the autolink software from DJ and chasing a predetermined A/F ratio at every point in the look up table, Jeff tunes out on the road similar to our old friend Ivan. He also designs his maps to work specifically with the accelerator pump option from DJ. So far so good cause I've always had a problem with dyno tuning without adjusting for real world parameters. Comes with good cleanly written instructions on how to install the accelerator pump utility and set it up. Also good instructions on loading his maps onto the PCIII and setting up the throttle points. This part (throttle point setup) is a little different (more precise )than the procedure you will find in the Power Commander tutorial. The big question is how does it run? I don't know yet, it's been raining non-stop here in Dallas for over a week now and I haven't had a chance to get out and set everything up yet. I did do a map compare to the FuelMoto and DJ maps and it is VERY different from those other two. There's some weird numbers in there and the curves are not at all what I expected but hey, conventional maps haven't been all that good so maybe we're onto something here. I'm going to withold any more comments until I get everything setup and get a chance to ring it out. I'm a little apprehensive at this point but I do intend to proceed with an open mind.

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/17/2009 @ 2:37 PM *

Kruz:

I'm in the same position as you (map received yesterday), except without the rain. I won't be able to try it out until the weekend, though.

Can't wait. -bg

Well BG you know me, if it puts a big grin on my face then you won't hear the end of it but if it flops........I don't even want to think about that.

Kruz

I've been running Jeffo's maps in my bikes for over two years now (One is my ZX-14). Very satified with them. He really works at the entire map and not just top-end numbers that many go after for peak HP bragging rights. His maps are so much more ridably than dyno developed maps. I had spent an insane amount of money getting a dyno tune and after 9.5 hours on the dyno, my bike did make a large top-end number, but the bike was super rich and ran like crap at anything other than 100 percent throttle. Had thick black sooty desposits in my exhaust pipe. I switched to a map from Jeffo and the bike now runs completely smooth across the entire range of my sportriding. I know Jeffo personally and have ridden with him in the past. This guy is a full time sport bike rider/tuner. He pretty much "lives" on two wheels, always riding and tuning. Very passionate about what he does.

* Last updated by: 14pilot on 9/17/2009 @ 5:06 PM *

This part (throttle point setup) is a little different (more precise)
I think I can get it closer in theory. Same question answered, our beloved Ivan did not need to stretch your rods, float your valves. Static is the analog in the key fob on/on run the rheostat values off the TPS

Is method of setting throttle points A secret? How is it more precise ? I have found the #'s with the 9volt battery do not turn out the same as when the bike is running. Is this method performed with a meter not the bikes own electrical system, you know, key on. Help. Me no understand .

know if you bump that sub sensor that is sitting off the side of the throttle body, just a touch, it will send that code.

What are we talking bout here ......Play in the mounting screws that holds the sensor ? There is a mechanical procedure that he must prefer. Is it OK to ask what that is(Jeff ?). I'm not asking for his map. 5% out. I would like to try all three methods as you say and see this 5%. If 50 bucks is what it takes, I will send it.

What are we talking bout here ......Play in the mounting screws that holds the sensor ?

Negative Romans, no mechanical adjustment necessary at the TPS, it's all done using the PCIII utility on your lap top. DynoJets method on their tutorial is not real precise. What we are trying to do is align perfectly the 0% throttle position of the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) with the 0% throttle column on the fuel map and the same at 100% throttle.

If you don't get this right, you will not get the correct fuel flow for a given percent of throttle and rpm. The map is nothing more than a "look up" table. The TPS says your throttle position is here, crank sensor says your rpm is there and the ECU goes to the map and "looks up" the amount of time the injector solenoid is activated (duty cycle) for those conditions.

Anybody that's set up throttle points before knows there are three sets of numerical values you are looking at. There are "Closed", "Current" and "Open' data boxes on your setup screen corresponding to Closed Throttle Value(idle) Current Value and Wide Open Throttle Value. What the number values represent I don't know, I assume they represent ohmic values of the TPS sensor, since it's essentially a potentiometer.

The idea is to get the Closed and Current Values to match as precisely as possible at closed throttle and then to get the Open and Current values to match as closely as possible under wide open throttle. Apparently voltage and temperature variations can play havoc with the numbers and the numbers themselves jump around a bit anyway. Without giving any of Jeff's secrets away (proprietary information), he has come up with a procedure that gives more setup precision than DJs method.

As far as the map itself, I've studied it and I think I've found Jeff's secret. I think my analogy of tuning in the analog was very close, you don't need no stinkin dyno to tune, he builds on the zero map. Why start with a zero map? Because the manufacturer spent a lot of time and money getting it right except for those areas where it must be sub-optimal in order to pass EPA mandated emissions requirements. Why reinvent the wheel here, the zero map is close it just needs to be tweeked?

Those federally mandated emissions requirements ruin the very area where we spend 95% of our time with regards to part throttle power and throttle response. The manufacturer's know how to make your bike run as smooth as a babies bottom down low but the feds won't let 'em do it so we get to suffer. On the top end from about 40% throttle and on the manufacturer's are free to make the bike perform as intended and they usually do. This bears repeating, most of the "driveability" issues occur below 40% throttle so this is the area that must be "cleaned up" to make our bikes run right.

I think Hub nailed it, i.e. Jeff has spent enough time on the dyno he knows what works, he can take a zero map and add and subtract fuel based on what has worked in the past, go ride the bike and make small adjutsments from there, all based on experience. Brilliant!

Guys, send the guy $50 and enjoy your bike performing the way it was supposed to. So far everyone that has tried his map has loved it and his customer support is first rate.

Weather looks like it may be letting up so I plan to get this stuff uploaded this afternoon and I'll let you know how it goes from there.

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/18/2009 @ 8:45 AM *

I know you meant to say "CRANK sensor" and then that makes the practical event walk.

oooops ....... ......I went back and corrected the text. Thanks for the proof read Hub! Yes, I'm keeping it simple here, GPS, vehicle speed sensor, coolant temperature sensor etc. are additional serial input devices that can change the output values from the table as needed.

Jeff has done some very interesting stuff with this map so I am curious to see how it's going to work. The tweeks he made would have to be learned by practical seat-of-the pants experience, they could not have been programmed in by the DJ tuning link software!

Sounds like Jeffo has received the Hub seal of approval!

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/18/2009 @ 9:01 AM *

I talked to Scott the other day on the phone. I didn't know he was on this board and I didn't see this thread before. He really raved about how well his bike is after this map from Jeffo. I live in northern Michigan also and hauled my bike that 3 1/2 hour jaunt to a dyno. I spent the whole day at this place that is supposed to be renowned in the Detroit area. When I left, the bike was in limp mode and the guy told me my PC3 was bad. If I could get another while I was in town he would give it a shot again. I took it back to a family members house in the area and TRIED to ride it. I put the original map I had back in and everything was back to good. That trip cost me $500 and I got *&$@! Once I get a couple things straightened out with my bike I'm gonna send Jeffo $50. If it didn't work it would only cost me 10% of the last time. We all piss away that kind of money on stupid crap, but this sounds really good. I know I could have bought another bike for what I lost with my stock portfolio and I didn't get it anywhere near as bad as some.

Without giving any of Jeff's secrets away (proprietary information), he has come up with a procedure that gives more setup precision than DJs method.

I was thinking if Dyno-Jets method are not precise...... should they not be told ? It sounds like Jeff is useing their tools properly and we are not, do to the bad info they are giving us. I think a proper method should be posted over in the How to section. You know, "How to set up TPS properly". This info would benefit all who are using there products. No matter it is what it is. My 2 cents.

it's all done using the PCIII utility on your lap top. DynoJets method on their tutorial is not real precise. What we are trying to do is align perfectly the 0% throttle position of the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) with the 0% throttle column on the fuel map and the same at 100% throttle.

Got it, I will cross check in the morning, the curiosity is killing me. 5% is worth looking for. Thanks Guys.

* Last updated by: Romans on 9/19/2009 @ 7:34 AM *

Seeing this has really gotten me curious about Mr.Jeff's maps. Especially after last nights outing at the track. I have not played with a PCIII for a few years and I've never loaded another map into one before. I'm going to have to read up on this and load the DJ software into my laptop. A couple more good postings about his maps and I'm sold.

The reason I think I'm in need of a re-mapping is stupid but not. When I initially did my HID install, on the first night shakedown run one of the ballasts ended up pressing on the face of my PCIII. I think that it may have held some buttons down because the bike has run differently since then. Not as snappy, and sometimes a but laggy with a "jump" as I roll the throttle on at around 4K rpm. It doesn't do this all the time and I can't seem to make it repeat on demand. It just feels a little off.

I think a proper method should be posted over in the How to section. You know, "How to set up TPS properly". This info would benefit all who are using there products.

Romans:

I checked with Jeff to see if it would be OK to post these instructions in the forum. He said that this method was one that he developed, and that it is part of what you get when you purchase a map from him.

So it shouldn't be posted publicly. Sorry. -bg

Totally understand Jeffs point. What I Don't understand How a company like Dyno Jet could post flawed directions. If you think about how many of us use their products, that a big oops..... I guess I expected more. Thanks for the Try BG. Cheers.

Well, it appears that it's not only flawed directions that we get from Dyno Jet. I was using the map from their website for my bike's configuration until this morning. I just got back from a 100 mile ride after installing Jeff's map.

All I can say is WOW! It feels like a totally different bike. Very smooth. Much more powerful. Had to re-learn rolling on the power coming out of a corner at 90mph in 4th gear, as the throttle is so much more sensitive now when you first open it.

The difference is night and day.

This is, WITHOUT A DOUBT, the BEST $50 I've spent on this bike.

Your mileage may vary (literally).

Thanks, Jeff! You have taken tuning to a NEW LEVEL! -bg

What is his email address I've got to get me a map?

Theres a link to his site on the first post of this thread. After talking with him for 30 minutes and seeing some of your results I'll be ordering one monday.

* Last updated by: heathun on 9/19/2009 @ 5:41 PM *

It looks like I may be ordering a map soon myself. I have to find out if he takes payment other than Paypal.