[i]because there is a power drop-off if that dyno was in my garage I'd have snowflake set for that day's map. I do not chase 150 or 160 degrees for HP. If HP is a 230°F = She is tuned to HP, not engine temp my thermostat my nuts less damp to turn the oil a chocolate color shake [that runs too cold] to burn off the condensation in the crankcase. That was one example you remove the thermostat kind of variable. Ya blew a step to tuning, not a head gasket.[i]

Well if you had my dyno in my garage you would know that your 14 does not make great power at 200* It makes its best power around 155-160 anything over that you start to lose a good bit of power. I will post some runs and show you. Your a/f want change much so your tune is not off from 160 to 200 your I.A.T's go up your computer compensates for the higher temps.But it can only compensate so much. This is why your 14 feels like it has 20 more hp in the winter than the summer I.A.T's are way down Motors love cold air. Cooler running motor means cooler air box cooler air box mean lower I.A.T's wich means more power.

This is why you put a Ice pack on a supercharger to cool it down. so it does not heat up the air comeing in. And why you put a spray bar on an intercooler to cool the air down before entering the intake. wich means big hp increase.

* Last updated by: justins07zx10 on 5/25/2011 @ 7:23 AM *

Ok I can see Justin has fingered out we can have an active debate without getting all huffy, which is the way it should be.

However, you have got your statement all wrong sir. I don't have to be an engineer to understand that engine temp pertaining to the cooling system has little to no relevance to intake temperature which is what you're really talking about. You would have to put a sensor in the combustion chamber (ideally) or at least in the airbox right at the stacks to have any idea what temperature the mixture is at. We won't even go into ambient temps. Obviously, the materials that make up the combustion chamber will work better when kept at optimum temps but expansion and friction is factored into a 'warmed up' engine. More damage can be done when cold when parts aren't expanded to their tolerances and oil hasn't taken a temp yet and is flowing properly.

As hinted at earlier, temps (crankcase) HAVE TO REACH a certain number or else the oil will not work like it is intended. Oil will actually go bad if it never warms up properly. I am not going into specifics because you know where google is too. I would guess 150 is way to low, hence why replacement thermostats are between 180-190.

As far as the fan epiphany, it has been said before and is common sense, unless the fan is kept on constantly, engine temps will always be between the switches' values and engine temps will not stay constantly low no matter the fans. This is such a silly thing to stress over. I understand worrying about boil over but trying to tune an engine with crankcase temperature is just futile.

LOL I have to jump in because of statements for and against secondary fan installations.

When I first got my 2008, the first thing I noticed (yes, even before noticing the power and speed) was the oven blowing hot air on my boots and legs making me VERY uncomfortable.

Part of that is the cylinders, but at least they have partial rubbers on them. Part of it is the exhaust header and colllector. Part of it is the radiator.

So ultimately, I put a second fan on, because it lowers the average water temperature in the radiator, thus lowering the average temperature of the air blown through the radiator back on my legs.

I didn't feel like messing with the cylinders, and if it needed it, Kawk has had over 5 years to figure it out (and haven't bothered).

Then I ceramic coated my Brock's CT-Dual exhaust system. I researched this completely, because I had started out considering exhaust wrap, and worked through all the data I could find. Classic Coatings got the nod because they knew what they were talking about, and because they had TLHB (THLB?) Race Coat process for the inside of the headers, collector, and pipes which is what is used on race engine exhausts.

I've noticed a slight reduction in exhaust heat. Wrap would get it down more, and I may still do it, if I ever pull all the fairings off again (which is unlikely).

So this is my experience, and what I did greatly improved rider comfort, and lowered my average water temperature as measured by the temp gauge. Beyond that, I'm not making any claims.

I'd set a temp gauge on the front of a radiator, tape down the button. I'd then setup a camera to that ticking temp hand held sensor stick out your tongue, back of your ear kind of sense if it makes sense I want RG's record runner or Hines is kid on the run down the 1320, you tell me if records are set under whatever you want to measure water or exhaust temp...

I need $$$ to shut you the fucup get a ramp! Pull down that pile off the dyno and roll it up the hauler. You are miles away with the cold stuff = Die Droplets Die!

I need a hair drier to dry out your nuts one more time I need mist not close the expansion down you cooling off youracerice filed of dreams in your dreams buddy!

Here is my dick telling me; we show up to race is how I faced the days gone buy ass if I need that dyno like I need a hole in the roof to shoot the co2 out or suck on it get high like an 02 sensor.

* Last updated by: Hub on 5/25/2011 @ 10:31 AM *

yes but all we can do around here is bench race or shut-up

* Last updated by: Edgecrusher on 5/25/2011 @ 11:03 AM *

How many guys here actually "overheated", you know, coolant gurgling out and steam and whatnot? I really don't think the 14 runs hot enough to say you are losing engine life, perhaps you will lose 1 or 2 hp on the dyno from a "hot" engine to a "normal" engine, ask yourself are you really gonna miss a horse or two when your sitting in a traffic jam with a hot engine?. Get rid of the stock exhaust with those huge cats, and carry on with your life, the heat is not an issue.

* Last updated by: TaintedTattoo on 5/25/2011 @ 11:26 AM *

Right!

I cannot believe the heat debate is still going but it is something to read.

Even tho I have a 2nd fan it is only on there to help cool down quicker in traffic or traffic that is deadlock and going nowhere. As said before the fans kick on and off at stock settings so it is not getting hotter and not getting cooler but may cool down quicker.

I thought I read somewhere on here that someone put a manual gauge on and posted the temps that the fan kicks on and off.

Does anybody remember that or what they were?

Rook came up with that info and I believe it was stated in the manual but I may be wrong.

Rally, Hub is just different. He has knowledge but it can be a real headache to crack the code. Don't let it get you frustrated.
As for the heating issue, I've never had a problem and I'm in So.Cal and it gets pretty hot. Never seen the top bar light up when it was newer and fully stock. I now have ceramic coating and the stock cans are gone for Area P's. I don't really know how much that helped.
Important thing is to keep fresh coolant in there and mixed at the correct ratio and correct level. Be sure the system is bled correctly of air. I personally don't feel a need for any coolant additives at all. Don't fully understand what they do and don't trust them.
I believe if the bike is tuned right and operating as it was designed then you don't need to make changes. If you feel the heat coming up is a sign something is wrong then you should have it checked or compare to other 14's if you can.

14's and Connie's are well known for producing heat.Normal.

As soon as I get the new header back from ceramic coating and have to pull off all the plastic I will see what I need to do to add one of them daytona digital guages for temp then maybe see what is hot and what is not.

I gots plenty of bikes to ride while the 14 is down.

I only have one bike, so everything I do to it has to be a) reliable, b) an improvement, c) in line with how I want to ride the bike, and d) something I don't have to revisit because it isn't working / right.

Lowering your coolant temperature lowers your engine's operating temperature. But then, where do you want to measure "engine operating temperature".

We know dual fans and better coolant results in lower average coolant temperature. But the coolant primarily cools the cylinders, pistons (indirectly), and head et. al. So does it matter if those components run at a few degrees cooler temperature because of increase coolant efficiency (the colder the outlet coolant is, the more heat it can absorb from the metal it comes in contact with).

I don't know, years of making engines make power leads me to believe it does affect engine efficiency. I just can't quantify, so if someone wants to say "no it doesn't" thats cool, I don't have any motivation to argue.

Blue is right, anything based on the ZX14 engine is going to run hot. When you cram that much horsepower that close together, you get lots of heat.

So the only proof of concept I see possible is to run a bike with one fan and oem coolant up to temperature where the fan comes on, then do a dyno pull.

Then drain the radiator, put a second fan on, put oem coolant in, and do the exact same thing.

Finally, drain the radiator, put Engine Ice in, and do the exact same thing.

If the concept is sound, the HP and Torque charts off the dyno should show an improvement at each stage. If it doesn't then the only thing doing those steps does is keep some of the heat off the rider.

Talking about won't prove a thing, though. I'm sorry I didn't get that dyno from that company that went out of business in Maryland near where I live. But I didn't have a place for it at the time. I do now.

* Last updated by: privateer on 5/25/2011 @ 6:33 PM *

However, you have got your statement all wrong sir. I don't have to be an engineer to understand that engine temp pertaining to the cooling system has little to no relevance to intake temperature which is what you're really talking about. You would have to put a sensor in the combustion chamber (ideally) or at least in the airbox right at the stacks to have any idea what temperature the mixture is at. We won't even go into ambient temps. Obviously, the materials that make up the combustion chamber will work better when kept at optimum temps but expansion and friction is factored into a 'warmed up' engine. More damage can be done when cold when parts aren't expanded to their tolerances and oil hasn't taken a temp yet and is flowing properly.

As hinted at earlier, temps (crankcase) HAVE TO REACH a certain number or else the oil will not work like it is intended. Oil will actually go bad if it never warms up properly. I am not going into specifics because you know where google is too. I would guess 150 is way to low, hence why replacement thermostats are between 180-190.

As far as the fan epiphany, it has been said before and is common sense, unless the fan is kept on constantly, engine temps will always be between the switches' values and engine temps will not stay constantly low no matter the fans. This is such a silly thing to stress over. I understand worrying about boil over but trying to tune an engine withcrankcase temperature is just futile.

Ok there is a air tem sensor in the air I'm pretty sure on that. I actually haven't looked. I know for a fact there was one on my 07 zx-10. and the Intake air temp is on display on the 2011 zx-10. I don't think they would skip that on the 14.

I have a 160 degree thermastat in my massive cam awsome heads and big motor 99 SS I'm pretty sure thats not to low to make the oil not work. You should google that. I'm not saying I think 200 degrees is to hot or overheating by no means. I just think it should run cooler while riding. Running only water will drop an automobiles running water temp by an average of 20 degrees. Thats what I am looking for. I don't mind sitting at a redlight and the bike going up a few bars. but it should start coming down as soon as the fan comes on.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Last updated by: justins07zx10 on 5/25/2011 @ 3:25 PM *

When those NASCAR boys pit, are they throwing tape on or removing tape at the intake @ radiator core? 230-260°F is your performance window. 320 too cold. 385F is too hot. According to my research.

I have a garage.
I too have a garge.
Mine is hot.
Mine can freeze.
Mine can melt the plastic.
Mine can freeze your balls.
Mine passed the test.
My testicles hurt... Am I suppose to..
No, you stay here I'm going for the beer.
Yes, I'll stay here, and keep the fridge open waiting.

If I'm at a light...the bars begin to climb...some....then my fan comes on.It'll stay on usually until I begin moving again.But the temp stays at one point after the fan starts.It doesn't keep climbing.I don't feel any excessive heat from the side panels by my shins or anything that some guys have experienced.So IDK.She drops right back down QUICKLY once I hit about 10 mph.I think a lot may have to do with how some guys actually idle their bikes.Mine is set at 1100.That seems the smoothest and mildest for mine.I do not blip my throttle at a standstill.Some guys do.I truly believe the fuel mix at idle is a contributing factor to heat production.Mine is mapped for a slightly less than factory mix on idle.This did in fact bring my idle temp down at least one bar on average.If it's really cold outside,she'll idle at about one bar above the bottom bar.I'd have to say that the cooling system on MY bike is working very well.She goes up pretty good,and drops back really fast.So IDK.The stock pipe's flow I believe will increase the heat issue some as well.They do get very hot.I can touch my TiForces with a bare hand when I shut my engine off.Seriously.It does not retain heat at all.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 5/25/2011 @ 4:13 PM *

I honestly think its more in my head. because I really have no idea what the exact temp is.lol Just this horrible meter,scale, thing they got here being at the half way mark or a bar over while riding seems a little high to me but I am diffrent I guess. It really don't go up much passed that. I don't have any problems with me feeling alot of heat or anything either.

I honestly think the car guys on yellowbullet are way more noligable about this kind of stuff than anyone here. They have also told me to run windsheild washer fluid as my coolant.lol

Run you bike at 260 I'll get mine to 160 and I will walk your ass. its called heat soaking. 190-200mph air allows for a lot less air to have to come through to keep the car cool. They add tape for less restrictive air flow not to heat the car up. I beat their cars don't exceed 200 ever I wouldn't know but I don't think your research is correct there bud

blue, i think the reason the 14 and the connie run as hot as they do is because of the cats. They work a lot more efficiently when they are red hot.

The addition of the second fan was to combat heat at a standstill. During the hottest August days here in NY, the fan would kick on while sitting in traffic and the bars would continue to rise(Someties you get stuck for a couple of cycles of the light!). My idle is set as your is and I also do not feel the need to keep reving at a light.

Lastly, you think those foremans are just for looks? Try taking a ride with them off! Holy crap! Your thighs will be uncomfortably hot in a matter of minutes. I guess a lot went into the design of those because it sure makes a difference without them.

Justy,

If you run your water at 160°F How can the bike warm up if the radiator is running over 212° just to cool the head off. Does yourip'inn stone crusher V-8 Chevy run at 160f so you can run without a radiator cap on? That's like saying, I have this water faucet on real heard and it won't rip that rose pedal.

But if that faucet was dripping out drops, it would not be boiling kind of low pressure and make no ripping rose is are red, violets all pour our windshield washer can is steer on Dusty's dyno and wash that puppy clean... Who's strapping one on Dizzyboyspeakshot in the dark that poor kid.

Can we get this over with or you want me to set the electric reel spool set and rip his lips the fuck write off you let me know.

Hub you over-rate yourself.

I follow book. I am not rATEd I show factshithe fuck down watch this clown...

Show me your list or I'll begin with a DIS (tre) I look like an idiot I should have known this back in 1977 give or take.

RB Racing talks like Rusty Dusty Drumset.
Brock dose not want to talk abouthatrick of more air camp, less carbon build more TNT matter to you too?
Weirdwaysing world of a list I sure did not say anything about rating but what I know very little of. Bring out your DIShit list is DIS not from me but from the book why are you/they not on top of the computer and I have no training for this and yo are too tired to run the lobs thrown at you it is racing for fun'inn the clock the fuk out of you.

Stay up or shut up. Don't start monkey tre me or we gonna not like the party. Someone's clock is coming down and I need your shit? HOw do you rate now? YOu on the back brake? You gonna rate me is rate the fuck you UP YOURS pal! No LAP'EAR is safe in my PIT!

REm&membed in your seal and sent.

* Last updated by: Hub on 5/26/2011 @ 12:08 AM *

I wear DIS aZZ my Man CARd... Pull your dick out of the car is leave you in the safety belt. 1-1-9 is wait for their cuntdown. I treat everyone equal in my world ODOR.

I said above..."mapped for slightly less than factory mix" on idle.That was not correct.It is mapped for slightly MORE fuel at idle.