Just discovered my valve cover leaking........ Coming down slowly around cylinders 1 and 2 and collects on the header stud and drips from there. Maybe parking on the side stand allows it to collect there?

......will be putting my washers in tonight. Not too big a deal.

http://www.zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=23FE7D0D-1372-66AE-3BE48A80EE413B0D&page=4

Also have had the cam chain making noise the last 3 months.

I remember the cam chain noise didn't show up the very first time I started it with the synthetic in it (I was listening for ANY change) but it did start about 3 rides to work (20 miles round trip) later

I saw some misting on my fairing and couldn't see anything obvious so I wiped it off and blamed it on the road. So that first sign would narrow it down to 10/11 weeks since the change to syn'.......So I'm going to try changing back to the Motul and see if it effects the cam chain noise and the leak.

Seems like all our bikes react a little differently to changes.

I've heard that synthetic can/will leak through easier than conventional oil. I've read it many times so some of it is true.

I hope changing back will at least slow down any leaking so I can wait to do the 15K valve check. Get to throw out $55 in oil after just 400 miles.

I never had much of a leak. I could start at upper oil level line, do a 400 mile trip and still not drop lower than the lower line. I added about 1/4 quart/500 miles.......allowed me to use up all of that 5th quart we buy to get the level right at center.

toss that old crap out. Be glad you didn't get something too fancy, I guess.

QUESTION: I'd like to keep the oil filter. The SM says if I don't change the filter there will be about .4 qt of oil still in the filter area. Do you think this much synthetic mixed with the dino oil will compromise my oil change..."experiment"? Thanks for any help.

The Rotella was the first synthetic I used in ~25,000 miles. Did not seem to seep any worse than the Kawi 10/40 I was using. Pretty sure the Rotella T6 5/40 is a lighter weight oil than 10/40 too.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/27/2011 @ 12:06 PM *

I think switching back to conventional will help slow the leaking. I wouldn't count on solving the problem before your trip. You might try doing a 500 mile day trip bringing extra oil with in a back pack in case you need it. Just see how much is leaking. If it is not too bad, maybe just do your trip with the leak and plan to replenish en route. Most or all the oil will burn off as you run which reduces the mess but may make you feel like puking if it comes up in your face. Happened to me a couple times. Freshly laid asphalt and burning oil too much for even my iron gut. Much of the leakage happens when bike is on its side stand.....or so it seems.

my cam chain noise started at 7000 mi APE install and good to go

won't take you much time over an hr to pull left fairings off and add a couple washers on the valve cover bolts that are leaking

Just did that but I did all 6. Used only 1 stainless Steel washer/bolt. Less than 1 mm thick. Tightened each in the proper sequence in increments of 20-10 in lbs. Nice and even. WIll start engine tomorrow. tomorrow.

KAK, the worse part would be getting the FUBAR rubber heat insulator pulled up to get at the bolts. I removed my heat insulator plate. That was a huge job to get it off in 1 piece. A lot of people just cut it off. but I figure if I ever want to put it back, I will have to know how to remove the parts so I just did it.

That is another thing you can do as a part of you valve clearance check, KAK. all just falling right TF into place for ya.

if you have the time, of course.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/27/2011 @ 10:47 PM *

rook wrote:

Ya, that expensive synthetic is nice and smooth ainna? for about 500 miles. then it's normal oil. Go with cheap and change more frequently is a good approach IMHO. I used Rotella Synthetic the last time. Same price as Kawi conventional oil. Can't say if it is any better than Kawi or the $80 worth of Repsol 4T I put in it a couple yaers ago

Not true. There are plenty of very large sample studies done, if you'd care for facts.

Sample studies indicating Rotella is a good oil? I've heard about them. Just can't really tell that dramatic of a dif in performance. Since the price is the same as conventional, I'll keep using. .....and still change /2500 miles.

The repsol really was amazingly smooth even on the infamous wham N to 1st gear. CCT rattle was nonexistant. Just for the price, the rapid deterioration back to normal was extremely disappointing. Not to mention, my motor started losing oil right around the time I switched to the Repsol.

When AMSOIL had an independant test agency do viscosity break down study, they included all major synthetic and name brand petroleum-based oils.

Within 1,000 miles, all petroleum-based oils in wet clutch motorcycles had lost 50% of their viscosity.

Viscosity is what protects your engine. Wet clutches tear at the oil molecules like a chopper.

Of all the oils, Amsoil MCF 10W40 maintained the most viscosity after 1,000 miles, something like 80% which is excellant.

After 2,500 miles, no other oil period was above 50% viscosity except Amsoil. And it kept > 50% for much longer.

You can have oil wars with words all you want, the the facts and real world tests (NY taxis, for example) demonstrate reality.

Clean it back up and use some grey flexible sealant along the front and sides. I bet the leak disappears. I think that rubber seal just doesn't work good enough or is not high quality . No reason for a flag ship to leak oil like a Dodge Neon going on 10 miles.

Viscosity is what protects your engine.

I have no beef against synthetic oil. lol- I mean, it leaks more readily than conventional so there I have gathered more of my own independant test results...leaks better=flows better. LOL! Seriously, if your engine has no leakage, I see no reason to not use synthetic. All I want to say is that if ANY oil corellates to average performance, youmight as well have average oil in there. Price, that's up to each individual. I won't buy oil that is higher in price unless it runs my motor better.

I will try Amsoil next time. Have heard a lot of good stuff about it. Heard nothing about Repsol. Have not used Rotella enough (in fact, hadn't ridden the bloody bike enough this summer) to make a solid judgement but if it was as wonderful in performance as so many have claimed, I would have noticed.

Got yer AMSOIL info copied to the bike mods and accessories file. Thanks, Priv.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/28/2011 @ 11:14 AM *

Clean it back up and use some grey flexible sealant along the front and sides.

Worth a try. That would be hilareous if that fixed it after all the hullabaloo about stripping bolts and busting bolts off and crushing rubber. very often, the most direct approach works best for a quick fix in the heat of the moment. Not always long term. Still worth a try. I have a feeling those rubber disk gaskets under the bolts being changed would help a great deal as well. Never hear anybody changes those. IDK?

OK for what what it's worth, I don't want to turn this into another oil thread but here goes my findings from trial and observation. My only expereience with full synthetic has been with Rotella T 5W40, blue jug as in Rook's picture. I have about 55,000 miles on the stuff in six different bikes, everything from a ZX-6R to a VTX-1300C cruiser. I was running the stuff exclusively in all my bikes but recently made two changes, I went to the Rotella 15W40 non-synthetic (white jug)in my VTX-1300C and my ZX-14 for the very reasons discussed earlier in this thread. The synthetic is a slippery little molecule and it is thin, thin, thin even at low temperatures..... which is fantastic for minimizing wear on those cold starts since the oil starts flowing quickly and establishing pressure. Downside is it runs out of things like our automatic cam chain tensioners, old Mercedes-Benz hydraulic lifters and leaky valve covers etc. so if they've been sitting a while they rattle on first start up (all except the valve cover, it never rattles ). Since going back to the regular non-synthetic Rotella on my ZX-14, I've noticed a noticeble drop in oil leaking from the valve cover and the cam chain tensioner rattles a lot less on a cold start. The VTX is a big old nasty twin and I think it needs a little heavier oil since the clearances are greater than in my sportbikes. Some guys run 20W50 in these things but I just run the Rotella White jug and it seems to run as mechanically quiet as the thicker stuff. So in a nut shell, yes, I have found that synthetic will leak out quicker than non-synthetic if of equal viscosity rating and tends to make the cam chain rattle more noticeable on first start.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/28/2011 @ 1:10 PM *

Heard nothing about Repsol. Have not used Rotella enough (in fact, hadn't ridden the bloody bike enough this summer) to make a solid judgement but if it was as wonderful in performance as so many have claimed, I would have noticed.

Maybe I'm just crabby. I just got the 14 running out in the 30 F air. Let it warm up good. And road around like a little kid in the driveway. Let it idle on the side stand. No oil leak I can see after doing the washer fix on the head cover.

.....and it really does shift nicely into 1. No wham, more of a smart CLACK. I shouldn't badmouth Rotella. It is nicer than conventional even after its been in the bike all summer and fall and that was with 1 track day use of the oil. Maybe no magical cure for every little tick but pretty impressive --as long as the engine is all sealed up well.

Still say the Repsol sucked. I wonder if I got a bad batch?

synthetic oil has additives to protect seals and gaskets to prevent leaks. The leak myth is an old problem that occurred on older, high mileage engines run on petroleum. The dino caused cracking and deterioration of the seals and gasket, and then sludge and tar would seal up the damage. Switching to the cleaner running synthetic would remove the tar and sludge, allowing the gasket/seal to leak. Not a problem with newer vehicles, like after '95.

I'm gonna resist to comment on algers' comment. Oh the pain!

damnit! that was a comment wasn't it?

Rook wrote:

I shouldn't badmouth Rotella

I was going to say something about that but then thought....."naaaaah".

Edgecrusher wrote:

I'm gonna resist to comment on algers' comment

....so I will.... Alger, we're talking about an already existing leak here, not one that was created by the synthetic oil.

Alger, we're talking about an already existing leak here, not one that was created by the synthetic oil.

SO is he.

Switching to the cleaner running synthetic would remove the tar and sludge, allowing the gasket/seal to leak. Not a problem with newer vehicles, like after '95.

Now what they do to vehicles after '95 to stop them from sealing leaks withtar and sludge. and why they no do to my 14?

Rook; KAK's statement "I've heard that synthetic can/will leak through easier than conventional oil." Prompted my response. I said "like after '95" as an estimated time as that's about the time synthetic became more popular, and people switched over at lower mileage. Another cause of the leaks was the myth that an engine flush had to be done before you could switch. A lot of people fell for that one. I'm not saying KAK's leak was caused by my scenario. Just that leaks that pop up by switching to synthetic was always blamed on the "inferiority", or the perceived thinner viscosity of the synthetic. It is USUALLY the fault of using dino for a long period of time in an older/high mileage motor that started the myth. We all know the ZX14 has a problem with the cover leaking. It is a Kaw defect, the same as the frames cracking. I had synthetic in my 14 for a couple years, and a few thousand miles before my cover started leaking. Bike always on center stand, oil to top mark, and never beaten. Kaw didn't hesitate to fix it under warranty by swapping all bolts, gaskets, seals, and type of sealant. Obviously a problem they know about.

* Last updated by: alg8er on 11/29/2011 @ 11:39 PM *

Edgecrusher; comment away! I won't hurt you.

Rook; "if ANY oil corellates to average performance, youmight as well have average oil in there". "I won't buy oil that is higher in price unless it runs my motor better." So performance is your only criteria in choosing an oil?

You know just when I thought I had heard every angle of oil thread lunacy, you tell me the difference between conventional and synthetic can cause something to leak. Why are things depositing on a gasket surface that shouldn't be touching oil in the first place? I'll assume this is just more internet oil thread folklore. Or maybe that just happens between grades of Amsoil??? lol

Take two 10W40 oils one conventional and one synthetic, their viscosity at an operating temperature of 100 C is identical, the difference is when you go above or below that point. The conventional oil has a lower Viscosity Index or VI which means it will thicken at lower temperatures and thin out at higher temperatures. The Rotella 5W40 synthetic product has a VI of 170, this is very high and means that it remains free flowing at lower temperatures as in after shutdown. From what I've seen, the majority of the ZX-14 valve cover gasket leaking occurs after shutdown, otherwise why would it make any difference if the bike was parked on a side stand or a center stand? If the bike sits for a few days, logic says the synthetic being freer flowing is going to leak more than a conventional oil that thickens up (coagulates) at room temp. That's been my experience anyway, especially during the winter months since switching to conventional Rotella, it hardly leaks anymore.

That may be but why are you accepting that it should be free to leak at all? I would think a more reasonable explanation for the problem is a bad design of the valve cover mating surfaces or perhaps a cover which doesn't efficiently clamp down those surfaces. Even temporary heat induced warpage would be a better explanation. Just saying if a little temporary difference in oil viscosity is causing a non pressurized cover to leak then there are bigger problems afoot.

I think for arguement's sake, it would be interesting if one of the motivated people on the forum would take their GoPro and mount it to face that area and do a time-lapse demonstration on a clean engine that has been known to leak and see if this is happening during operation or after it sits.

* Last updated by: Edgecrusher on 11/30/2011 @ 12:11 PM *

Another thought I have, is there enough venting going on for positive valve cover pressure. I remember removing the emmission valve on the top center (which most people do) and just blocking that off but not thinking about a vent. Maybe there is another vent I'm forgetting or maybe that could be why my and possibly others tend to have oil on the front cylinders? I'm trying hard now to remember how that looked when I was done...