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Thread: shift kit help please

Created on: 11/20/11 03:28 PM

Replies: 53

scottjkyl


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shift kit help please
11/20/11 3:28 PM

ok so I've got the Pingel electric shift kit, the ignition module has 4 brown wires that need to be spliced into each of the coil sticks. My question is after looking at the harness do i need to tie into all 4 or can i just tie into the 1 going into the main plug? thanks



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Grn14


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RE: shift kit help please
11/20/11 5:50 PM

IDK Scott.Be assured SOMEONE read your post here....I'm just wonderin where all the "expert electrical guys" are at?You know...the three amigos guy(s) or whatever Maybe ya need a 'tone wheel' tune up first?

BY GOD!!!!Thar she be!!!!!Yer TONE WHEEL...right there....in that pic.HUB? .....I found it...your infamous TONE WHEEL!!!Funny thing though...it doesn't LOOK like the "tone wheel" on the front and rear hubs of the new 14 You think maybe she's got...TWO tone wheels on there? (two tone...get it?...okay,yer supposed to laugh now) ...Nevermind.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/20/2011 @ 5:57 PM *

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scottjkyl


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RE: shift kit help please
11/20/11 6:54 PM

yea I'm hoping 1 of our resident drag racers can answer this



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Grn14


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RE: shift kit help please
11/20/11 7:12 PM

I'm looking at your shifter plug there....that has the 4 wires in it?And that's supposed to connect to your stick coils circuit?IDK...there's no info on the pingle site for that?

Is what I'm looking at a Kawasaki diagram?The coil harness up there?That's what you're wondering about?


WHICH electric shift kit is it?

Okay...I can't find ANY install instructions on there.I've no idea what parts are involved with the button/module/electrics to see how the wiring is connected to the ignition.It's supposed to momentarily kill the ignition,yes?I can't see how splicing 4 wires into the stick coils would accomplish that.Seems like it would be 'killing' the ignition somewhere else...Maybe a relay or something upstream of the stick coils circuit?So the ignition signal would be evenly transmitted to the engine power circuit.IDK.Cutting 4 wires doesn't sound too stable to me?You sure there isn't a plug that goes into the factory ignition circuit there?Something already 'made' to just plug and play?

Seems like(without seeing it)that there should be a pigtail that plugs into the coil harness right there in the upper pic,and then replugs into the main harness where the upper plug went originally.Then maybe a secondary wiring 'harness' going to the handlebar switch unit?It looked to me like the pic on their website showed the electrical wiring of the shifter going up and around the engine right there...to a factory plug maybe?It's really just an ignition interrupter.It only cuts the power when you push the button...otherwise...your coils get stock power supply through the factory harness while she's runnin.Right?I'm not convinced you should be cutting any wires.That doesn't sound right to me.Unfortunately,they don't show any pics there of the complete deal together.Like just out of the box.Got any pics of it?


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/20/2011 @ 7:46 PM *

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scottjkyl


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 4:17 AM

heres the instructions i have:


* Last updated by: scottjkyl on 11/21/2011 @ 4:28 AM *



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scottjkyl


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 4:40 AM

this is out of the zx14 fiche. To me it looks like the 4 positive wires and 1 grnd wire goes to the plug from the coil sticks I'm just wondering if i can get away with just splicing into that 1 grnd wire instead of all 4 at the coil plugs
or do i have it backwards and all the R wires are the positive?


* Last updated by: scottjkyl on 11/21/2011 @ 4:45 AM *



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scottjkyl


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 4:52 AM

this is how the whole shift sys ties together



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Hub


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 7:17 AM

No. That would mean you either one wired into the 4 grounds or you wired into one cylinder. See the coils have 4-red wires? Consider those ground if all have the same color [think]. Plug the brown wires into each color coil wire.

The 2 reds and one black? Where is that wire diagram? I'm going to guess:
Black = Ground.
Red-Lg = (+) battery side with fuse in between.
Red-sm = Goes to the tone wheel wire to kill the spark to shift without load for a mill of a second. Remember, these are guess is until someone who has one shows up says [something] completely different or you shoot the diagram/directions.

Then again, you could take the small red, use that for your suggestion if that is what you meant. I would now hook it up to the small reds on the coils = pick one.


* Last updated by: Hub on 11/21/2011 @ 7:21 AM *



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scottjkyl


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 8:13 AM

Hub accorrding to diagram both big red hook to pos side,and black to neg of battery,small red is for switched 12v power, and can be connected to any12v positive switched wire. the only wires that go to coil stick harness are the 4 brown ones


* Last updated by: scottjkyl on 11/21/2011 @ 8:23 AM *



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Hub


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 10:28 AM

I would then run a toggle switch with a light in it. This way, the small red wire is not shorted to ground, but more the resistor (the bulb showing she is turned on). Unless they fake the red wire as being a ground, meaning. To find out?:

1. Black is to ground.
2. Red-L is fused.
3. Red-s is touched to ground. If you see an arc you have cat reflexes so as not to blow the fuse? That says red is direct from battery to ground. Or? It says, I am not hot to shift I am now grounded via remote (-)red-sm is more or less a toggle on/off option? Because, it would seem like you run it to the hot running taillight, that is key off/key on we have shifter hot without you being able to turn it off... sans key off. Therefore, is that small red for a toggle and the loophole from shorting that red is add the light inside the coffee type toggle switch.



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Edgecrusher


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 10:43 AM

Coming from someone who has never installed one of those kits, I would imagine any terminal on the coils which shares the same wire as the rest of the coils(common) is not going to be a control wire and is not a wire a controller would be interested in using. It depends on what the system does with the wire I imagine. If just cutting the power to the coils is the object then using the common wire would be efficient since you can drop every coil with one wire(common). However, if the goal is to regulate the firing of certain cylinders or change the timing of the events then individual control of coils would be necessary hence the need for so many brown wires. An educated guess for me would be why would they give you so many brown wires if they just wanted you to hook to a common (ground?)?



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Hub


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 11:42 AM

Browns are the sequence/repetition of the firing order. Brown could care less the sequence. Any brown will eventually wind up in the 1-2-4-3 pattern. It has no idea what rpm it will shift at so, it follows the rpm? That brown wire box is done as far as I'm concerned, Boobs. Look at the 4 wire colors coming out of the spark unit. Read those colors from the bottom up, count 4 and they follow the spark sticks. All red is tied to the kill switch. That cuts the wire is coil's red (-) wire to the kill. It reconnects when you toggle it back on. It does not go to ground in other words. Look at the ground stopping at the switch.

Now think; if red-sm acted like that on the red-lg side, it's a direct short, no? I'm sort of curious myself:


Your message :-
"Tech question on the atc shifter two red wires" on Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:26:57 -0800
has been received.



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Edgecrusher


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 1:09 PM

Sounds like we're on the same page, Hub. As to whether any of the wires actually go to ground I did not look that far into it. Like I said, I wouldn't really know, but I like a good problem to troubleshoot. Would like to hear what ends up being the answer...



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Hub


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 1:11 PM

Craig Grant

Sales Technician

The small red wire is designed to be hooked up to a 12 volt power source on the bike. We recommend that it is hooked up to a power source that only has power running to it when the ignition key is turned on. Many bikes have an accessory power source on the fuse box that will only have power when the key is in the on position. If the bike you are using doesn’t have an accessory power source you could use a test light or volt meter to check for a power wire anywhere on the bike that is powered up only when the key is on. Using a toggle switch to power up would also work just fine to switch the power on and off.



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scottjkyl


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 2:18 PM

hub and edge somewhere we got off the path lol, I understand the red and blk wires and how the connect. My question is the 4 brown wires going from the kill module to the coils if you look at the first diagram up there you see that 2 wires go into each coil according to my instructions the wires to the left are the +and all 4 of these go to the main plug now from what i can make out the 4 right side wire - combine into 1 wire going to the main plug. So if this is the case do I need to splice into all 4 of those - wires or can i just use 1 of the brown wires and splice right before the plug since that 1 wire goes to all 4 coils?



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Grn14


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 3:04 PM

Sounds like you've nailed it down Scott.You can see how the thing is connected....I'd do like they say...splice in those four wires just as they say to do.There's some reason they have it connected the way they do.I wouldn't mess with trying to 'make it simpler" or something.I'd say...NO...you can't just use ONE of the brown wires.Those are apparently going into that module or whatever.They most likely want EACH coil interrupted at a particular time when pushing that button.They may not each be "killing" at the same microsecond.IDK.I'd do it just like they say.My


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/21/2011 @ 3:08 PM *

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Hub


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 3:11 PM

Nope. No single brown to one wire that hits all those are the grounds. Brown has to run hot. Path says;

1. Brown = Chose any ~ goes to W/Y #4 cylinder
2. Brown = 3 left choose ~ goes to W/G #3 cylinder
3. Brown = 2 left, it's 50/50 from here ~ goes to #2 W/BL
4. Brown = 1 left ~ goes to W/R #1 cylinder

Again: Brown does not know when you shift on what cylinder. We are down to milliseconds of kill. That says; I have to know who is next to fire so I can kill... No wait! I am going to sit here, wait for the brown wire that went to one wire, you installed it for argument sake on #1. You want to shift at 10K and at that mark, it was on #2. So lets wait for 2 more fires so you can shift? No can do. Make sense? What time is it? shit!SHIFT! It's late!



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Grn14


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 3:31 PM

I would say...trying to bypass the work of the module is risky(using a single wire)..and I think that module is the brain behind that kill sequence.Trying to run a single line to accomplish what "we" may think is non-essential may just damage his engine in ways we don't know.Looking at the 4 wire connect to the coil wire thing now makes perfect sense to me.IF that module is 'killing' at a particular time in the overall shift sequence(pushing the button)...then trying to do that on ONE wire is gonna cause problems IMO.They do mention that in those instructions there...didn't I read a part there about "killing" the power is very important to engine safety...they way it's being done.Even if it IS microseconds.I wouldn't try to refigure out what they already determined to be safe for your bike.

I'd say...install it exactly as they said.I would.You're not chopping the throttle like in a conventional shift way.You're maintaining FULL THROTTLE.Which pretty much tells me....that microsecond of time,wherever it's being applied,is critical to refiring that cylinder.Whichever cylinder it kills on and when.The shifting is secondary.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/21/2011 @ 3:38 PM *

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scottjkyl


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RE: shift kit help please
11/21/11 8:41 PM

Hub,not to drag this thing out anymore but are the w wires the positive side of the coils? because they say do not connect the brown wires to the positive side. just wanna make sure.



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Hub


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RE: shift kit help please
11/22/11 12:23 AM

Scott,
Yes, we are going to drag this out till we are all on the same page, we agree what wire goes where and what the instructions say. Find the circled 25. That is our coil bank. That is our wire harness. 8 wires, 4 with one color only. The rest say a main color and another line of color in the wire wrap. W says White with a tracer color. You see W/Br? That says, White wire with a brown tracer. The tracer can have a band around it, 2 bands around it, or 2 lines of tracer on each side of the wire's covering.

"The brown wires get spliced into the coil's signal leads..." This does not say, "the brown wires get spliced into the coil's ground leads..." Are we on the same page we read that the same??? You need to show me where is says to run the browns to a ground or a signal? Signals says ECU wires from the spark box to the coils. R for red wire means; R stands alone as one color. They are all the same and they tie into the kill button.

Bring the data that says different or have we established where the 4 brown wires go? If you think about it, why would you send a wire to ground? If it is grounded, what do you unload? What do you shut off? From ground, I think it is impossible for the brown wire to recognize spark, being it is sent to ground. Spark has to jump to ground to create the spark in the first place. Brown is sent directly to ground. Therefore, the key wording says, "signal lead."



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Grn14


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RE: shift kit help please
11/22/11 12:48 AM

Isn't that red wire(R) on the #25 coil bank the ground?It's the only common single color...and it's going to that switch to the left there(#24)I don't see any red wire color only coming from the ECU.The ground(s) are at the coil bank right?(#25)The grounds are the red wire,right?The signal wire is the dual colored wires,yes?.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/22/2011 @ 12:50 AM *

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scottjkyl


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RE: shift kit help please
11/22/11 3:00 AM

but see the warning here



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scottjkyl


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RE: shift kit help please
11/22/11 6:13 AM

easy part is done lol had brackets and clutch pedal powder coated. if you noticed I had to go back to the OEM pedal the clutch rod on the vortex pedal was in the way of the shift cylinder



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scottjkyl


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RE: shift kit help please
11/22/11 7:32 AM

you the man Hubster the reds are the HOT wires so I hook up to the white wires. Talked to a guy at Pingel and he confirmed it also told me just to hook up on the other side of the main plug(harness) coming out. that will most definatley make it easier.

Not that I doubted you Hub but the part fiche is backwards to what the wires are on the bike and just to make sure i used a test light to confirm the reds are hot.

Thanks to everyone for their input much appreciated will post vid when complete



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Hub


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RE: shift kit help please
11/22/11 8:08 AM

Okay, two things, one, I have a Q back to Craig. Two, it says to bench test that shift rod. Kind of like pull it up the guide holder away from the shifter. That thing might settle into a different position than where you think the static setting is? That says, I will bend either the shifter or the housing that holds the plunger cylinder; I have that all barked down.

Maybe this cuts all? Maybe you could tie all browns to the one kill side like you said? I'm moving on your page, we try to wiggle out of this one is a shitty set of instructions. Wires to a circle with a plus and minus in it, not really is that wire finished off to a + or a - symbol. The line just sits under the circle and you do not see any caution next to say different. I would not send some info for the same section we are talking and now next page says; put the oil in after you start the car. Thanks for the instructions.

I see watt you're saying. I think I did add that question to Craig's other question; why we can't tie all browns to the one kill side, right? That totally says all browns kill across the board is now my guess? And if that is kill all, not the one cylinder, I don't see why not; if they make the same box for the ATC setup for one coil, right? I hate electrics. I'm weal at it.

Wait for Craig.



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