Good article on the Pace technique from the Texas Sport Bike Association. Emphasis is on maintaing high corner speed, bike and speed control not outight speed, if you're using your brakes you're not on the Pace. I may hook up with these guys from the Dallas chapter, there is safety in numbers and they enforce speed control or you don't ride with them. Added bonus they know where to ride for the best roads in the area. I need a place to ride every day, Track Days here locally look like a once or twice a month kind of thing, not enough riding for me. Fort worth has the closest track at Cresson Motorsports park, about an hours drive away.

Racing involves speed, concentration and commitment; the results of a mistake are usually catastrophic because there's little room for error riding at 100 percent. Performance street riding is less intense and further from the absolute limit, but because circumstances are less controlled, mistakes and over aggressiveness can be equally catastrophic. Plenty of roadracers have sworn off street riding. "Too dangerous, too many variables and too easy to get carried away with too much speed," track specialists claim. Adrenaline-addled racers find themselves treating the street like the track, and not surprisingly, they get burned by the police, the laws of physics and the cold, harsh realities of an environment not groomed for ten-tenths riding. But as many of us know, a swift ride down a favorite road may be the finest way to spend a few free hours with a bike we love. And these few hours are best enjoyed riding at The Pace.

A year after I joined Motorcyclist staff in 1984, Mitch Boehm was hired. Six months later, The Pace came into being, and we perfected it during the next few months of road testing and weekend fun rides. Now The Pace is part of my life - and a part of the Sunday morning riding group I frequent. The Pace is a street riding technique that not only keeps street riders alive, but thoroughly entertained as well.
THE PACE

The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.

If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed in minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.

YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT

Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the race track. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.

Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time. Don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.

More often than not, circumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three or four foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-harder and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.

A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS

The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in the corners, If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straight way speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.

Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straightaways taken at more moderate speeds, providing the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized, and the police or highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.

New rider indoctrination takes some time because The Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the throttle on the exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speed and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.

There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris in the road, and all slowing or turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, your left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.

RELAX AND FLICK IT

I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it's that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game; smooth, forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires' contact patches through a rigid sport bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.

But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect: realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competitor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limit your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got some thing to prove, get on a racetrack.

The racetrack measures your speed with a stop watch and direct competition, welcoming your aggression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.

© Copyright MOTORCYCLIST Magazine
November 1991 issue

Two weeks ago a rider died when he and his bike tumbled off a cliff paralleling our favorite road. No gravel in the road, no oncoming car pushing him wide, no ice. The guy screwed up. Rider error. Too much enthusiasm with too little skill, and this fatality wasn't the first on this road this year. As with most single bike accidents, the rider entered the corner at a speed his brain told him was too fast, stood the bike up and nailed the rear brake. Good-bye.

On the racetrack this rider would have tumbled into the hay bales, visited the ambulance for a strip of gauze and headed back to the pits to straighten his handlebars and think about his mistake. But let's get one thing perfectly clear - the street is not the race track. Using it as such will shorten your riding career and keep you from discovering The Pace. The Pace is far from street racing - and a lot more fun.

The Pace places the motorcycle in its proper role as the controlled vehicle, not the controlling vehicle. Too many riders of sport bikes become baggage when the throttle gets twisted - the ensuing speed is so overwhelming they are carried along in the rush. The Pace ignores outright speed and can be as much fun on a Ninja 250 as on a ZX-11, emphasizing rider skill over right-wrist bravado. A fool can twist the grip, but a fool has no idea how to stop or turn. Learning to stop will save your life; learning to turn will enrich it. What feels better than banking a motorcycle into a corner?

The mechanics of turning a motorcycle involve pushing and/or pulling on the handlebars; while this isn't new information for most sport riders, [the rider should] realize that the force at the handlebar affects the motorcycle's rate of turn-in. Shove hard on the bars, and the bike snaps over; gently push on the bars, and the bike lazily banks in. Different corners require different techniques, but as you begin to think about lines, late entrances and late apexes, turning your bike at the exact moment and reaching the precise lean angle will require firm, forceful inputs at the handlebars. If you take less time to turn your motorcycle, you can use that time to brake more effectively or run deeper into the corner, affording yourself more time to judge the corner and a better look at any hidden surprises. It's important to look as far into the corner as possible and remember the adage, "You go where you look."

DON'T RUSH

The number one survival skill, after mastering emergency braking, is setting your corner entrance speed early, or as Kenny Roberts says, "Slow in, fast out."

Street riders may get away with rushing into 99 out of 100 corners, but that last one will have gravel, mud or a trespassing car. Setting entrance speed early will allow you to adjust your speed and cornering line, giving you every opportunity to handle the surprise.

We've all rushed into a corner too fast and experienced not just the terror but the lack of control when trying to herd the bike into the bend. If you're fighting the brakes and trying to turn the bike, any surprise will be impossible to deal with. Setting your entrance speed early and looking into the corner allows you to determine what type of corner you're facing. Does the radius decrease? Is the turn off-camber? Is there an embankment that may have contributed some dirt to the corner?

Racers talk constantly about late braking, yet that technique is used only to pass for position during a race, not to turn a quicker lap time. Hard braking blurs the ability to judge cornering speed accurately, and most racers who rely too heavily on the brakes find themselves passed at the corner exits because they scrubbed off too much cornering speed. Additionally, braking late often forces you to trail the brakes or turn the motorcycle while still braking. While light trail braking is an excellent and useful technique to master, understand that your front tire has only a certain amount of traction to give.

If you use a majority of the front tire's traction for braking and then ask it to provide maximum cornering traction as well, a typical low-side crash will result. Also consider that your motorcycle won't steer as well with the fork fully compressed under braking. If you're constantly fighting the motorcycle while turning, it may be because you're braking too far into the corner. All these problems can be eliminated by setting your entrance speed early, an important component of running at The Pace.

Since you aren't hammering the brakes at every corner entrance, your enjoyment of pure cornering will increase tremendously. You'll relish the feeling of snap ping your bike into a corner and opening the throttle as early as possible. Racers talk about getting the drive started, and that's just as important on the street. Notice how the motorcycle settles down and simply works better when the throttle is open? Use a smooth, light touch on the throttle and try to get the bike driving as soon as possible in the corner, even before the apex, the tightest point of the corner. If you find yourself on the throttle ridiculously early, it's an indication you can increase your entrance speed slightly by releasing the brakes earlier.

As you sweep past the apex, you can begin to stand the bike up out of the corner. This is best done by smoothly accelerating, which will help stand the bike up. As the rear tire comes off full lean it puts more rubber on the road, and the forces previously used for cornering traction can be converted to acceleration traction. The throttle can be rolled open as the bike stands up.

This magazine won't tell you how fast is safe; we will tell you how to go fast safely. How fast you go is your decision, but it's one that requires reflection and commitment. High speed on an empty four-lane freeway is against the law, but it's fairly safe. Fifty-five miles per hour in a canyon might be legal, but it may also be dangerous. Get together with your friends and talk about speed. Set a reasonable maximum and stick to it. Done right, The Pace is addicting without high straight-away speeds.

The group I ride with couldn't care less about outright speed between corners; any gomer can twist a throttle. If you routinely go 100 mph, we hope you routinely practice emergency stops from that speed. Keep in mind outright speed will earn a ticket that is tough to fight and painful to pay; cruising the easy straight stuff doesn't attract as much attention from the authorities and sets your speed perfectly for the next sweeper.

GROUP MENTALITY

Straights are the time to reset the ranks. The leader needs to set a pace that won't bunch up the followers, especially while leaving a stop sign or passing a car on a two-lane road. The leader must use the throttle hard to get around the car and give the rest of the group room to make the pass, yet he or she can't speed blindly along and earn a ticket for the whole group. With sane speeds on the straights, the gaps can be adjusted easily; the bikes should be spaced about two seconds apart for maximum visibility of surface hazards.

It's the group aspect of The Pace I enjoy most, watching the bikes in front of me click into a corner like a row of dominoes, or looking in my mirror as my friends slip through the same set of corners I just emerged from.

Because there's a leader and a set of rules to follow, the competitive aspect of sport riding is eliminated and that removes a tremendous amount of pressure from a young rider's ego--or even an old rider's ego. We've all felt the tug of racing while riding with friends or strangers, but The Pace takes that away and saves it for where it belongs: the race track. The race track is where you prove your speed and take chances to best your friends and rivals.

I've spent a considerable amount of time writing about The Pace (see Motorcyclist, Nov. 91) for several reasons, not the least of which being the fun I've had researching it (continuous and ongoing). But I have motivations that aren't so fun. I got scared a few years ago when Senator Danforth decided to save us from ourselves by trying to ban superbikes, soon followed by insurance companies blacklisting a variety of sport bikes. I've seen Mulholland Highway shut down because riders insisted on racing (and crashing) over a short section of it. I've seen heavy police patrols on roads that riders insist on throwing themselves off of. I've heard the term "murder-cycles" a dozen times too many. When we consider the abilities of a modern sport bike, it becomes clear that rider technique is sorely lacking.

The Pace emphasizes intelligent, rational riding techniques that ignore race track heroics without sacrificing fun. The skills needed to excel on the race track make up the basic precepts of The Pace, excluding the mind numbing speeds and leaving the substantially larger margin for error needed to allow for unknowns and immovable objects. Our sport faces unwanted legislation from outsiders, but a bit of throttle management from within will guarantee our future.

© Copyright MOTORCYCLIST Magazine
June 1993 issue

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All photos on this page copyright of the TSBA and its respective chapters.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/29/2010 @ 1:44 PM *

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I read that when it originally came out in motorcyclist. A really good read.

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I'd never read that article before but it is almost exactly what I had arrived at in my own experimentation i.e. go to the twistiest farm to market roads you can find, maintain high corner speeds right at the roads posted limit if possible and stay off the thottle when you enter the straights. It had been working for me until I started really getting to know the road well, then the speeds started to gradually creep higher until......bammm... LEO intervention brought me back down to earth. The group ride concept is one of mutual accountability, if any one gets carried way and starts racing he's not invited back. It is still not 100% safe though, they said in the article they lost one of their guys off a cliff when he entered a corner way over his head and stood on the back brake. From what I can tell in Texas, the posted speed in a corner, in my case 30 mph is suggested speed, not an absolute limit. The officer quoted only the posted limit for the farm/market road which was 55 mph, not the 30 mph corner posting. I've seen some of the Texas Sport Bike association guys doing what I thought were some crazy speeds in tight corners while still below the legal limit for the road. Cool thing about riding the pace, you don't need triple digit speeds to have a blast. Ride safe!

* Last updated by: Kruz on 9/29/2010 @ 2:41 PM *

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I'm also a big fan of testing emergency maneuvers in isolated areas where there's no chance of meeting up with other vehicles, like hard braking, knowing how quick you're able to stop at different speeds, practicing slow, tight u-turns where feathering the clutch and counter weight are used, etc. Stuff I learned at the Advanced MSF course, for the most part. But, for things like faster braking, which wasn't taught, it's good to know how the bike will react in a controlled environment.

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The accidents I've witnessed on the street have been someone hauling ass down a straight and rushing a corner, going in too hot or thinking they were too hot and doing something stupid. I'm a big fan of corner speed and not hauling the mail in the straights (a nice flowing rythm on a road). We call those scream and parks, they go screaming down the straights and park it when they get to a corner.

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That's half sport riding and it's like quitting sex right when you get to best part. You guys are all going home with a case of sore nuts.

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Rook I'm just saying if your already running 90, 100, 110 and cornering whats the point in wicking it up to 150 or 160 in the straights. Just maintain that 100 mph pace in between the corners and enjoy the scenery

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I can see pulling into a corner at the legal speed and if you are not going to accelerate out of it there is no need to downshift beforehand either. I've been trying this kind of street riding and I'm sorry to say, it is not very exciting. you're never going to come close to experiencing the full range of handling the bike in a corner. You will experience half and in a pretty docile manner (no hanging off the bike no high rpm) If that is your style and you want to look really harmless, get a 600 cc scooter and mod it to have exceptional cornering clearance. The cops might just laugh when they see you and your friends exiting a tight corner at 55 mph. (BTW, not directing those comments to anyone in particular----just rhetorical comments----I know you guys all know how to ride.)

I enjoy riding with a group and I would have no problem following the rules to maintain a group. I've ridden with slower riders and I just go slower myself because group riding is about comraderie--not competition. I'm an all or nothing person. That's probably why I got a brand new 14. If I'm going to sport ride, it will be all out and i won't be holding anything back (except to stay alive) until I'm finished.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/29/2010 @ 10:54 PM *

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if your already running 90, 100, 110 and cornering whats the point in wicking it up to 150 or 160 in the straights.

I'd love to let her climb up into the triple digits on the straights just because that is another sport riding experience but I agree that once you have completed a corner, you have finished the best part.

Just maintain that 100 mph pace in between the corners and enjoy the scenery

LOfreakinL......just a leisurly ride at 100 mph! lol

I think I'm destined for a track if I can afford it. Then I can do the whole 9.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/29/2010 @ 10:56 PM *

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Where did I say anything about slow corners or the speed limit. The only time I'm running the speed limit is in town, when out on my favorite places it's all about cornering thats where the fun is. Fast corners and hard throttle wheel lifting exits are what it's about when out for fun.

As far as "experiencing the full range of handling the bike in a corner" you'll never experience that on the road. Go to a good track and push a bike to it's very limits when cornering then you'll get that experience.

I never ride at my track pace on the road, just too many variables you have no control over. The biggest one's are traffic and animals. On the track those are taken out of the equation and you can concentrate 100% on the bike and what she's telling you.

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hehe---We're posting at the same time and thinking the same things, Heathun.

I think I'm destined for a track if I can afford it. Then I can do the whole 9.

As far as "experiencing the full range of handling the bike in a corner" you'll never experience that on the road. Go to a good track and push a bike to it's very limits when cornering then you'll get that experience.

Where did I say anything about slow corners or the speed limit.

I was referring to the article. It's a fine concept but in practice, I think it would be very hard for most of us to find a road with lots of challenging corners to take at 55 mph. A couple, yes but not a lot. Now if you want to acellerate to 75 and cut throttle to exit at a legal speed--well that feels like the girl got up and said a fast "good night" with a cruel smile on her face like i was talking about a couple posts back. Your left sitting there asking yourself "what the hell good was that???"

Now about that strict upright form with no dipping a knee(in the article)-------I guess if you are good enough, you can't dip a knee or you will lose it. That's the guys who are so good that they have to stay almost dead center in the saddle because the bike is leaned so far that they have no room to hang off. I'm not that good and i love to hang over a bit. I think I may be guilty of exagerating it a bit (not as bad as I thought from the vid I've seen of me on the bike) once in a while but it's a lot of fun especially in s shaped curves where there is a quick shift of lean. I wold be missing out on something if I had to sit up in the middle to try to NOT look like I was going fast to any onlookers.

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This is what I consider a nice relaxed 2 up pace, our straight speeds vary very little from ou corner speeds and the wife can still wave at the cows and horses like she usually does. The first pass was to check the road for any surprises

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfUIONPu-Hk&playnext=1&videos=0dbbXl8Ednk&feature=mfu_in_order

* Last updated by: heathun on 9/29/2010 @ 11:41 PM *

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PICK UP THE PACE!

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This is talledega gpr in alabama on my 01 zx6r

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sF6nC-zh9w&playnext=1&videos=-r3ab7CLTqI&feature=mfu_in_order

* Last updated by: heathun on 9/29/2010 @ 11:39 PM *

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Heathun--Looks like you have space for embed but no pic.

I'll check up on you guys tomorrow. Time to hit the hay.

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yea embedding didn't work so I just linked them

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nice vid's heathun, checked out some of your other vids as well. man those roads over there are nice and wide

OZ

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Great article there Kruz. Personally I reckon that everything flows from your entry speed in a corner, so I try not to use the brakes (60,000km or 40,000miles on the oem back brake pads so far). If you are wrong and your entry speed is a little on the low side, you can get back on the gas that much quicker. in slow, OUT FAST :)

Sure I aint the fastest guy in the pack, but I aint no nanna either........

OZ

* Last updated by: ozjohnno on 9/30/2010 @ 2:55 AM *

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Sure I aint the fastest guy in the pack, but I aint no nanna either........

With the name John McGuiness I reckon you aint no nanna!

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High corner speed is all relative, 55 mph would get you bloody killed in a lot of corners I know. I like what the author said in the article, any gomer can go fast in a straight line. It's true, hang a monkey on a rice rocket and wire the throttle to the stop and he'll go real fast...until the first turn comes up! There's just no place for ultra high speed riding on public roads if you want to keep your license and stay alive.

I was talking to a gentleman that owns a local motorcycle salvage yard awhile back. He said it would break your heart to see all the balled up rice rockets he has with less than 10 miles on the clock. A clueless rider buys one, pins the throttle on the way home and buries it into a guard rail when the first turn comes up.

Rook, take my advice and hook up with your local sportbike association and do a ride. Park your ego at the door though and prepare to be humbled, I've ridden with some of these guys and they will check out on you at will if they want to. Lots of them are older racers and they are fast. Listen and learn, it'll take years to be able to reach the skill level of some of these guys.

Better yet a track day, like Mass said after you get smoked by a couple of old guys on 10 year old 650 twins you'll be ready to start learning.

Ride safe everyone!

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we have RoSPA advance rider training here in Ireland and UK.
its organised by the royal society for the prevention of accidents, sounds a bit fuddy duddy but the 'style' of riding as described in the article resembles very closely the 'style' of RoSPA!
the couple of riders i regularly ride out with are RoSPA gold riding instructors and they rarely do silly speeds but you would be hard pressed to stay with them on a point to point ride across the countryside!
they refer to it a 'rapid progress' and is very smooth, hard braking and hard acceleration is rare, but boy they're quick!!
i think the police riders are all made to do this test as well!

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Agreed Jafo, just because they aren't bouncing off the rev limiter on corner exit or charging madly into a corner and smashing on the brakes doesn't mean they aren't traveling at a wicked pace. The difference is they are smooth and fast, i.e. 'safe", something that's learned from years of accumulated riding experience. I couldn't believe how quick those "old guys" from the TSBA were on their literbikes, cooking through the turns of the Three Sisters out in the Texas hill country. It was all about maximizing cornering speed, the engines almost sounded like they were making a flat, synchronous droning sound as they moved by us at a pace we didn't even try to match on our 14s. RPMs never varied, brake lights never came on, these guys were not hanging it out but their lean angles were incredibly steep and man were they moving on. Rook, it still doesn't sound like you've learned your lesson yet but you will. Like Will Rogers used to say, "Some folks.... you can tell 'em not to pee on the electric fence and they get it, others just have to experience it for themselves".

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I don't see that my opinion has anything to do with a lesson. This type of riding just doesn't sound exciting to me. I can ride at low rpm within the speed limit and corner as hard as hard as ever without gathering speed in the exit. I would never waste my time riding that way on a track though. The track is the safe alternative. JMO. I'll be glad for you if you find this type of riding satisfying. I still am not 100% convinced that it is safe. Tight corners are by their very nature impossible to see through unless the surrounding terrain is totally flat. If it's not safe, it can get you a ticket regardless of what kind of rpm you carry. I'm sure it appears less threatening to onlookers so that should help. Hope it works for you. I still am wagering you are going to be headed to a track after a few hundred miles of The Pace.

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Track Days here locally look like a once or twice a month kind of thing, not enough riding for me.

Agreed on that. Maybe The Pace is the only way for the street. But you still need the track to really ride.

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some of you crack me up!

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