1. if you look at this you'll note that he has lifted his knee up so as to go over further, running on his elbow

2. the fall of the road runs away from him

3. not sure of your angle to the track would be Kruz, would be greater to straight up and down

4. the tip of the handle bar past his glove on the clutch side is 6-8 inches of the deck maybe

5.the flat section of faring in between the 2 wheels is going verticle

Question, dose this make Stoner good at maths

* Last updated by: ethin14 on 4/1/2012 @ 7:30 PM *

I'm not sure what you're asking me Ethin but he looks like he's close to 60 degrees from the vertical and hanging waaaaay of of the side. Look at the position of his head relative to the windshield centerline, he's almost a foot off.

That is exactly what I look like when I ride down to the local Starbucks......lol!

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and when full of caffeine on the way home you really lean it over, mean nothing Kruz, is just a great photo along with the others, he's probably doing 100mph there looks like a billiard table to ride on, if you did that on the roads to my coffee shop you'd have rocks in your teeth.

Look at the position of his head relative to the windshield centerline, he's almost a foot off.

Some of us have a wider ass than others. A foot for me might just be one cheek. My guess is he is doing a half moon over the side. if he was doing a full, I think you would see his outside toe pointed out/up. He is def bending at the waist and leaning his shoulders and head a good 12" off center.

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Besides the skill, we don't have the tires for those kind of lean angles, that shot might have been done on qualifiers. They are incredibly soft, sticky compound. They don't have to last a full race, just a few laps. 50 degrees is pretty much the limit on a BT-016 and that's under ideal conditions.

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there all amazing at that level,

I always worry if you get of the seat on the road , which I rarely ever do, and cranked over even at modest lean angles and you have to emergency brake, on a track you pick a line and go through it to miss the object.

But on the street you have to stop, stand it up and brake hard sounds good in theory ,but in a fraction of a second those reflexes are going to get you, front brake and your down.

Don't forget....they're riding what....750's?900's?1000's?They're quite big looking for the size of the bike they're on.At least in that pic to me he looks like that.He doesn't really look that leaned over off the bike...the whole thing is way leaned in.

Friggen Blue one looks badazz doesn't it?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/2/2012 @ 11:09 PM *

Friggen Blue one looks badazz doesn't it?

Ya, me likes. That pic makes it look darker than what I usually see.

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He's at about 45 degrees lean in and looks centered on his machine, no hang off. The angle the picture was taken at makes this shot look much more dramatic than it really is , notice that the camera is tilted at about 37 degrees relative to the road surface.

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a newbie riding buddy with six months riding experience thinks he can make up for years of riding experience by reading "A Twist of The Wrist" and hang off without developing the basic cornering skills first.

lol wishful thinking

You should go Karate Kid on him and have him practice stuff until he goes nuts. I spent 4 hours on a parking lot the other day and I learned more there than on all my trips in the twisty roads. Humbling! I need to get me some cones!

* Last updated by: dragking on 4/3/2012 @ 12:25 PM *

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I spent 4 hours on a parking lot the other day and I learned more there than on all my trips in the twisty roads.

I used to like to do this. Still do but i had gotten to the point where it was getting hazardous because of the stones that seem to collect. Also, I think the popo will hoist yer butt out of there if anyone complains. Good exercise though, just watch those pebbles under the front tire.

He's at about 45 degrees lean in and looks centered on his machine, no hang off.

He's got half his butt off, I think. He would need to have very long legs to touch a knee if he wasn't hanging at least half butt off. There is no way he can lean that bike any farther so I'd say the hang off is more than justified. They prolly Photoshopped out the trail of sparks.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/3/2012 @ 2:56 PM *

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Hope people don't mind Stoner photos,they go well with Kruz thread , will delete if offends

Kruz do the math on this, under brakes as compared to acceleration

I'll just put 60 ibs out to the right to offset the G forces going the other way

I'd say a skilled rider drifting from braking is much better hanging off to counteract the the tendency to highside. When accelerating, i see a little less advantage to hanging off but as I mentioned early on, I would prefer to be close to the ground if I was going to low side.

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Also, I think the popo will hoist yer butt out of there if anyone complains.

Popo = buzz killers. So far so good though.

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That picture scares me every time I see it and if I remember correctly he didn't even crash. He's pointed towards the infield grass and his front tire is on the curb which is slick paint. How these guys do it I'll never know.

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^^^^it's cuz they hang off!

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That picture scares me every time I see it and if I remember correctly he didn't even crash. He's pointed towards the infield grass and his front tire is on the curb which is slick paint. How these guys do it I'll never know.

We do the same thing. It just that when you might say "I have to follow the yellow for 2 seconds and start steering" they say " I have to carry my wheel over that bump for a 1/2 second then kiss the outside of that yellow line before I start steering". We are more like sketch artists and they are more like architect!

Reason why you'll have few less skilled American racers in GP; are all the laws to keep you riding like a sissy-poo-sea-of squids.

Yeah I was also thinking the different laws make a huge difference. Ian Hutchinson was a hooligan before he became a TT legend, Hopper did dirt, Hayden dirt as well, Valentino, Stoner, Kenny Robert sr and the list goes on.
Also the culture, it's hard to get anywhere in america without a car. I see my friends in France, they have tons of accessory, Dainese or AlpineStart jackets that never make it here! I guess the fact that the weather is fair most of the time plays a big part also. Motorcycling is a hobby in the states while it is more like a life style in France.... How many guys on this forum have a car? How many guys in Europe have both a car and a bike?

@ Kruz: I was thinking about the newb you mentioned and went on a short ride on some twisty road. I didn't hang off and kept my usual pace and the bike felt fine! My chicken strips got real tight. I'll save hanging off for the turns I'm having a hard time with. Like Hub said, it is better to find how much clearance you got by scraping pegs first. The only problem for me is that with my after market raised rearsets and my Ohlins Shock I have way more distance to cover before I can scrape anything (which is a good thing). I lowered the pegs one slot but there are still higher than stock, I'm moving them higher when they start scraping! Hopefully I won't damage the pipe but if Josh Brooks super GSX-R has scraped pipes......

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He's got half his butt off, I think.

Rook, you got X ray vision, you can't even see that guys butt in that shot. If he was hanging off the inside, his head would be off to one side of the windscreen. Looks like he's right down the center, old school, ready for the retirement home....lol!

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I'm with ya Drag, I haven't see anyone going fast hanging off without leaning in, the pros are at crazy angles. No argument from me that hanging off doesn't help save tires and increase ground clearance in a turn but you still have to lean.

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Rook, you got X ray vision, you can't even see that guys butt in that shot. If he was hanging off the inside, his head would be off to one side of the windscreen. Looks like he's right down the center,

no, IDT so. He's hanging one side o his rump over. It might appear that his head is centered on the windscreen but really that is just two objects aligning in space in relationship to the point of view of the camera. If he was not leaning forward so much, you would see that his head and shoulders were off center.

Although it does appear that he is maintaining as much of an upper body on center position as possible given the fact that he is hanging is lower body off to his left. He would not have to have his lower body centered to get his head fairly well centered. All he would need do is slide his lower body over and bend at the waist to keep his head pretty much on center. If he straightens his right arm he will lean his whole upper body out where his lower body is.

Here is the smoking gun. Look at his left leg with the knee dragging. See how bent it is? You can see his thigh way out on the side of the bike. I don't think he could bend it any more. That is pretty much 100% flexion of the knee joint. NOw look at the other leg. See any thigh at all? Nope because he has it slid across the seat so that his butt will hang over. Also, look at the toe. POinting out/up.

Either this guy is hanging his butt off or else Kawi hired a pigeon toed, dwarf with a left leg that was 2 feet longer than his right.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/4/2012 @ 6:44 PM *

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loool Rook you funny!
I agree with you though.
@Kruz: I think he would be dragging hard parts on a stock 14 if he didn't get his butt off when his knee touches. Plus his angle of lean doesn't look too extreme.

I will definitely practice hanging off, but I don't wanna be one of those newb who tries to knee down when they don't have enough cornering skills.

I have posted this video several times but this is a good example to show people than there is nothing dramatic about putting a knee down.

Knee Down

It's about body position and throttle control... listen to the engine, no hesitation,smoooooooooth, When I get smooth on the throttle the knee is getting OUT even in the street as long as the corner is no blind. Note: it doesn't matter how fast you go... A cop could still give you a ticket, claiming that you were not in total control of the vehicle. Funny when you think that if I was eating a burger and talking on my cell driving a car, I would be ok as long as I am not in NY!

* Last updated by: dragking on 4/4/2012 @ 8:52 PM *

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He has his knee down and his body appears to be centered, I can show you videos all day long from old school GP racing with knee down and rider bolt upright and centered. Rook, you're completely speculating here from a frontal picture where you can't see any of his lower body position...nuthin but guess work.

Hard data, all time lap record set at Phillips Island by Wayne Gardner in 1990 aboard a Honda NSR500 two stroke, 133.90. 18 years later Nickey Hayden set a lap record that still stands on the same track of 130.06 aboard an RC112V. 18 years of development in tire technology, brakes, suspension, frames, traction control and engine tuning netted a 4% decrease in speed and Gardner had a bolt upright, centered riding style and Hayden is a hang way off guy for sure.

How much of that 4% was due to rider position and how much due to radical advances in technology?

* Last updated by: Kruz on 4/5/2012 @ 10:44 AM *

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I can show you videos all day long from old school GP racing with knee down and rider bolt upright and centered.

Maybe but I bet none of them have 1 knee flexed 100% and the other knee open ....

Rook, you're completely speculating here from a frontal picture where you can't see any of his lower body position...nuthin but guess work.

No, I can see it in the pic. I know where his butt has to be becuase I can see what his legs are doing. If that was a strict frontal view it would actually be even more obvious.

If his butt was centered on the seat, you would see at least a tiny bit of his right hip just to above his right slider puck. That is normal visual distortion. same thing that is happening with his head. It is centered visually but if you interpret the info that is there, it becomes apparent that he is not centered.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/5/2012 @ 12:18 PM *

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..think abot a centered riding position, Kruz. Hand, knee, hip. They all should line up more or less. now this guy is not coming straight at us soi we see a bit of the side view. The hip should definitely be visible. no hip. he's hangin.

and not to go on like a broken record but the 100% flexed knee nd the other open, that is proof. He has to have slid his keister over a bit to do that.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/5/2012 @ 12:24 PM *

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