.....And because we don't let go of them. Give an inch and lose a mile. Slippery slope, open the door a crack and everything comes falling out.........

alg8er wrote:

personally, I would apreciate anything that would get the jackass off my rear bumper, especially when they have their brights on. It seems to happen to me at least once every night I'm on the interstate.

Oh, that's you? You are going to slow. Get out of my way! ;) No wait, seriously, move the fuck over to the right. -->

That's just funny there. I know AZ has done away with the cams.. but I was wondering.. if the mask on this guys face is enough to foil proper identification then one could assume that AZ had an especially hard time going after violators on motorcycles wearing helmets, no? Add a tinted face shield and no front plate. Game over!

I was in Az summer of 2009 on the zx-14 on a trip to Grand Canyon with a couple friends. When I would see a road side speed-cam-robot-car I would stab the brakes down to the speed limit just before I passed the cam-car. My logic was that as long as I was doing the speed limit when it took the picture of the plate there would be no proof that the speeding picture taken from the front was me. Guess having a tinted face shield just sealed the deal. Never got any tickets in the mail from AZ.

ZXSyko wrote:

The basic truth is:

Driving a vehicle on a public road is a privilege (it's not an unalienable right) earned by qualifying for a drivers license. That privilege can be suspended or terminated in accordance with applicable laws.

Personally, I think it's too easy to obtain a drivers license. It's basically: Show me the money!

I'm in favor of licensing checkpoints. If I could possible save one life, I feel it would be worth it.

I know that I'm in the minority, and most folks object. But I'm all about majority rules, so be it.

I just about shit myself when I read this. Personally, I think requiring a drivers licensees borders unconstitutionality. I have the right, as an American, to roam freely, unrestricted and unhampered by an oppressive government requiring "papers" for me to show their armed tax collector/road agents on demand. I am so sick of the nanny state constantly trying to protect me from myself. In reality, it is just trying to take our wealth under the pretense of safety. It's sad. Fuck the safety Nazis. Something has to change.

* Last updated by: motoCycho on 11/7/2010 @ 11:51 PM *

Rook wrote:

Here's the key question: WHat is happening on our roads that is so dangerous that law enforcement must be stepped up? Is it about drug smuggling and terrorism or is it about traffic violations? Personally, I feel much safer on the road than I did 20 years ago and that has nothing to do with law enforcement. The cars are better. The roads seem to be better maintained and constructed more safely too. People can go fast much safer.

If the idea is to bust people who mean us all harm then I would like them to be the target; not the rest of us.

Brilliant!

I don't know the figures but I know that deaths on American Highways have been on a steady decline since the 1970's in spite of more miles driven. Whether it is due to safer hardware, better roads. more seat belt use or what have you. I know the Government plays a valid role in awareness and encouraging advancements in our hardware.. but I also think the market drives itself. If safety is your main concern when you buy a vehicle, then go by the crash testing results and injury stats when you decide what to buy. It's simple, we don't need police at every corner, human or robotic, forcing us to be nice to each other. When has that ever worked anyway?

* Last updated by: motoCycho on 11/7/2010 @ 11:46 PM *

stevetwo wrote:

You have the right to freedom of travel in this country, without restriction or without government decree. This cannot be denied, if we truly live in a free country. Our Founding Fathers would agree, as they have written as much. The mode of travel matters not - be that by bipedal motion, horse, horse-drawn carriage, or, yes, motor vehicles.

Public roads are just that, public. They are not owned by the government, but by the people.

Also Brilliant! Exactly!

I'd like to add that the more I believe my freedom slipping the more I ride/drive like I just don't give a shit! No, I don't needlessly endanger others (as long as they move the hell over), but I certainly push the boundaries of lawful driving at times. Don't we all?

* Last updated by: motoCycho on 11/7/2010 @ 11:53 PM *

FUCK OATH BUD

I nail the bitches with 4 55 watt HID's , they move over or get their eyes fried out of their head! I hate slow pokes in the fast lane. Am I an ass hole?

* Last updated by: buck20 on 11/8/2010 @ 2:32 AM *

motoCycho wrote:

I just about shit myself when I read this. Personally, I think requiring a drivers licensees borders unconstitutionality. I have the right, as an American, to roam freely, unrestricted and unhampered by an oppressive government requiring "papers" for me to show their armed tax collector/road agents on demand. I am so sick of the nanny state constantly trying to protect me from myself. In reality, it is just trying to take our wealth under the pretense of safety. It's sad. Fuck the safety Nazis. Something has to change.

You are just showing how little you know about the Constitution, not to mention the Bill of Rights.

First, there is NOTHING in either document granting you the right to operate a motor vehicle, nor a grant of free access to roads maintained by city, state, and federal governments.

And no, the mere fact you pay taxes does not grant you any Rights, either.

The Constitution states clearly it is the States' right to legislate in all but a handful of areas reservered to the Federal government. So if the States want to make you have a drivers license (they do), and they want to restrict your speed on their roads, they are supposed to be able to.

This is why Nevada was a haven for high speeds for so long. Eventually the Federal government blackmailed them into submission to some degree, but the overreach of the Federal government is an entirely different subject. But in the absence of an abusive Federal government, you have the right to move to a State which legislates more to your liking.

And you might try reading those documents because you have no right to roam freely and unhampered. It just isn't printed in the documents. You have the right to peaceful assembly, but no right to go where you want how you want. In addition, a landowner has every right to restrict your access to private property, and the States (and by extension, counties and cities) have the right to legislate driving laws. Because all grants of power not given to the (federal government) are reserved to the States. Yes, it goes on and extends the grant to the People, but People does not mean YOU individually. It never meant that. The Federalist Papers prove it doesn't.

If the Federal government was obeying the Constitution (they haven't for 50 years) then you would have the choice of which State to live in, and thereby chose for yourself. But you don't have that choice becuase of the unconstitutional overreach of the Federal Government, at least as it applies to the subjects of this forum thread.

Nanny state? Perhaps. But the only people I see doing anything about it are loosely associated under the name Tea Party. So in the end, it all comes back on me and you. If we don't agitate and stand up for our rights, and just let someone else do the heavy lifting, then we get what we deserve.

Ben Franklin wrote, and this is the original quote, not the popularized version, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The government is supposed to be afraid of the People. It is not, and it is our fault.

im with ya buck, but ive got them pullin off to the side on 2 lane roads to let me go by lol

Apologies if this duplicates anyone else's reply but here in the UK we have had automatic number plate recognition systems (ANPR)in police cars for some time. They read plates and from a link to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency beep at the cop if a vehicle is uninsured, untaxed or not currently MOT tested. Press recently showed photos of new gantry camera that will spot driver up to one mile off and show if occupants are wearing seat belts, using the phone, picking their nose etc. No date as to when this one comes in though.

Re ZXSyko comment on P2 re vehicle ECU's. I was involved in a five vehicle shunt last December when a driver (female) was killed. At the time in my statement i said I was travelling at about 55mph. Only just got to Coroners Court and traffic investigating officer said they had examined ECU's on two vehicles (my Honda Accord was one) and stated "the Honda highest recorded speed before it was struck by another vehicle and pushed off the road was 57mph"

Is all this done in the interest of our safety or a big brother state wanting more and more info. to use against us??

Like I said, welcome to the gulag, that's where the nanny state will eventually lead us. Unless, of course, the people of this once proud and great nation, take back their friggin government!

I can't wait for the present administration to announce Pedophile Pride Day as one of our national holidays...absolutely wouldn't surprise me in the least.

number plate system is on trial here in ireland but is being used on our toll bridge to automatically charge the owner of the car anyway. full rollout of the system is due next month and is being deployed by private contractors so it will not be wasting any police time! :(

If its a private contractor just blow it up or shoot it what are they gona do! NADA.

On one side of the political equation you have the classic police state, think Nazi Germany or the former Soviet Union. On the other side you have total anarchy, neither of these alternatives is desirable. Somewhere in the broad middle ground, our founding fathers fashioned a brilliant constitutional based, representative republic that served us well for all these years. It gave us stability and freedom by limiting the express role of government and allowed the people to pursue their individual dreams unhampered. As a result, the nation prospered under this system like no other in history. This is all gone now, increasingly we are moving towards some type of tyranny, which in the end, is where all forms of government will degenerate to. America, it is time to wake up from our fast food and ESPN induced slumber and rekindle the spirit of 1776 once again. If we don't do it soon, this nation is lost forever. JMHO!

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/8/2010 @ 8:42 AM *

You are just showing how little you know about the Constitution, not to mention the Bill of Rights.

First, there is NOTHING in either document granting you the right to operate a motor vehicle, nor a grant of free access to roads maintained by city, state, and federal governments.

And no, the mere fact you pay taxes does not grant you any Rights, either.

The Constitution states clearly it is the States' right to legislate in all but a handful of areas reservered to the Federal government. So if the States want to make you have a drivers license (they do), and they want to restrict your speed on their roads, they are supposed to be able to.

You are correct, that the Federal Constitution is a limitation of Federal powers, but any state that accepts membership within the union must abide by it as well. Something none of them currently do.

As for the documents not listing what you as an individual can do, is not a valid argument since you've already agreed that their intent is to limit federal powers (although, the Federal government as long since abandoned any semblance of following the Constitution). The Constitution has nothing to do with what you or I can and cannot do as individuals. And, I nor anyone else need to have all of our rights listed in any document. The Founders of this country understood this as well.

As for States being able to legislate in their own affairs, you are also correct. However, the restrictions placed on movement stem from the overreaching of Federal powers, not from any State. Further, your assertion of States' rights only holds true in a true Constitutional Republic. This is not the current government under which we all suffer. As I've stated previously, we currently live within a Fascist Police State.

I'll save the discussion of taxation for another time.

On one side of the political equation you have the classic police state, think Nazi Germany or the former Soviet Union. On the other side you have total anarchy, neither of these alternatives is desirable. Somewhere in the broad middle ground, our founding fathers fashioned a brilliant constitutional based, representative republic that served us well for all these years. It gave us stability and freedom by limiting the express role of government and allowed the people to pursue their individual dreams unhampered. As a result, the nation prospered under this system like no other in history. This is all gone now, increasingly we are moving towards some type of tyranny, which in the end, is where all forms of government will degenerate to. America, it is time to wake up from our fast food and ESPN induced slumber and rekindle the spirit of 1776 once again. If we don't do it soon, this nation is lost forever. JMHO!

Anarchy isn't as it's made out to be. And, no, it's not total lawlessness as many have been led to believe. Think of it more as a society without a ruling body, or government. I'm not an advocate of anarchy, but I'm not about to dismiss it out-of-hand, either. More people should truly study the anarchical form of society before pronouncing judgment on it. The problem for many is that any form government, no matter its grand intent (including our original Constitutional Republic), always turns on its people; history has proven this time and time again.

* Last updated by: stevetwo on 11/8/2010 @ 9:02 AM *

privateer wrote:

You are just showing how little you know about the Constitution, not to mention the Bill of Rights.

I never claimed to be a Constitutional scholar or lawyer. I was merely ranting off my opinion. Note the words "Personally" and "I think". Anyway... I sure appreciate the condescending tone and lesson on the Constitution. However, the Constitution has become a completely worthless pile of rhetoric, much like your lesson in fact. What difference does it make to argue over the semantics of a document that has been largely ignored and circumvented?

I have a feeling you and I would actually agree on many things.. but you assume that you know what I do or do not know. I know you are just tossing your 2 cents in as well.. so I won't take it personally, but just because I may not quote Benjamin Franklin and I am not bar certified, doesn't mean I can't tell when something is wrong or out of sorts. I weld sometimes. I may not know how to weld very well, but I know enough about welding to know when it's done wrong.

Anyway, this whole thread is interesting and appeals to the Libertarian in me. Amazed to read others with as strong or stronger convictions as mine when it comes to freedom.

Freedom, I take it a step further than a simple document can enumerate. I assert my freedom as granted to me by my maker. I my case, as an atheist, the universe (insert your own deity here). Meaning, "I do what I want, fool!" (said in the best Mr. T impression I can do.)

* Last updated by: motoCycho on 11/8/2010 @ 1:55 PM *

Say goodbye to that freedom, this graph from German magazine Der Spiegel really brings home the magnitude of the slow motion train wreck that's coming to this nation....thanks Obama!

Much of our laws and statutes are already fashioned after Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

The people should not fear the government, the government should live in fear of the people. Our founding fathers warned against this over and over again as they knew all to well where the baser instincts of man would lead.

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

From "The Prince" by Machiavelli

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/8/2010 @ 2:27 PM *

That graph is based on data that the US Government is willing to release. I bet it's much worse than that graph shows.

So "they" camera you doing the speed limit.How is that affecting our freedom?They're not trying to track you personally.ANYONE can get nailed for speeding.A thief has no rights(except to be treated humanely).I think the "camera" idea is fine.I'm legal.I know if I intentionally break the law...eventually,I'm gonna have to pay the piper.I don't think yer average citizen is driving around "worried" about being tailed or videoed.If you follow the law....99.999 percent you've nothing to be concerned about.I don't care if they get my plate.So what?The Government is NOT out to get you.And IF I get a ticket via camera or vehicle stop....does that mean I'm being watched?Hardly.Speed...ticket...pay.That's the American way!They can video EVERY corner they want.I'm gonna ride and have fun.The sky is NOT falling.To the upright,the camera means zip.To the criminal...the camera is a threat.(No...I'm NOT sayin anyone here is a criminal cause they don't approve of cameras!).When they start makin people tatoo a number on their hand or forearm...I'll be concerned!

How about THIS scenario.Yer makin a left hand turn at an intersection on your nice,beautiful zx(okay,maybe yer family Van and kids are with ya).It looks clear,so ya start to turn.Friggin idiot comes through outta "nowhere"(it happens) and nails ya...or,ya get t-boned.Anyway...whose fault WAS it?Thanks to that little camera up there,ya just might be able to have your injuries and future secured cause that other yahoo is screamin"his fault,his fault"."Roll the tape,please"My.02

It doesn't seem like "Government Interference" now...does it?

"Let not your heart be troubled"....Obama's on his way out fellas.Things are changing for the better already!

This present Government administration can't even figure out what's the best way to extract life and death information from a low-life,scum suckin terrorist...and they're gonna follow YOU around and make YOUR life miserable by installin a few cameras at intersections?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/8/2010 @ 4:05 PM *

So "they" camera you doing the speed limit.How is that affecting our freedom?They're not trying to track you personally.ANYONE can get nailed for speeding.A thief has no rights(except to be treated humanely).I think the "camera" idea is fine.I'm legal.I know if I intentionally break the law...eventually,I'm gonna have to pay the piper.I don't think yer average citizen is driving around "worried" about being tailed or videoed.If you follow the law....99.999 percent you've nothing to be concerned about.I don't care if they get my plate.So what?The Government is NOT out to get you.And IF I get a ticket via camera or vehicle stop....does that mean I'm being watched?Hardly.Speed...ticket...pay.That's the American way!They can video EVERY corner they want.I'm gonna ride and have fun.The sky is NOT falling.To the upright,the camera means zip.To the criminal...the camera is a threat.(No...I'm NOT sayin anyone here is a criminal cause they don't approve of cameras!).When they start makin people tatoo a number on their hand or forearm...I'll be concerned!

How about THIS scenario.Yer makin a left hand turn at an intersection on your nice,beautiful zx(okay,maybe yer family Van and kids are with ya).It looks clear,so ya start to turn.Friggin idiot comes through outta "nowhere"(it happens) and nails ya...or,ya get t-boned.Anyway...whose fault WAS it?Thanks to that little camera up there,ya just might be able to have your injuries and future secured cause that other yahoo is screamin"his fault,his fault"."Roll the tape,please"My.02

It doesn't seem like "Government Interference" now...does it?

"Let not your heart be troubled"....Obama's on his way out fellas.Things are changing for the better already!

Let's first tackle the idea of speed limits.

As I've stated previously, speed limits aid only government by providing a means of punishment - in this case fines/jail/both. Laws prevent nothing. Laws can only provide for punishment. By posting an arbitrary speed limit on a stretch of road, government can now punish you for "breaking" it. When it comes to speeds on any particular road, a person will either drive safely, to the limit of his/her skills and the conditions, or the person will not. No arbitrarily posted speed limit will prevent careless driving.

As for your "scenario," what happens when the camera stops working, or the recording is deleted/misplace, or any such non-sense? The accident still occurred, as accidents do. Any reasonable investigation, if properly conducted, will determine the cause - camera or no camera.

As for the cameras themselves, where does it end? First, they'll want them at every intersection for the purposes of "safety." Then, they'll want them along every stretch of road, again for the purposes of "Safety." Then, they'll want them in every neighborhood, again for the purposes of "Safety." Eventually, after some time has past, when everyone has accepted ever more intrusions into their lives, they'll want cameras in every home, again for your "Safety."

Be careful about dismissing the actions of government, they may be more heinous than is first suspected.

This present Government administration can't even figure out what's the best way to extract life and death information from a low-life,scum suckin terrorist...

* Last updated by: stevetwo on 11/8/2010 @ 4:52 PM *

Well I'm SURE about ONE thing...the American People aren't a bunch of sheep.....as was witnessed on the midterm elections.We see a threat,we do something about it.I don't think anyone is gonna need to be worried about "cameras" in our faces.Our freedoms are gonna be safe AS LONG AS....we ditch the socialists and progressives in Washington...which is already occurring.EVERYONE ought to know by now...the Government ALREADY knows EVERYTHING it needs to about you or I....even down to the last webpage we visited.I'm not concerned...this country will never end up like Soviet Russia OR Hitler's Germany.You can bet on that.Cameras at the corners?If it catches some idiot for rippin off my nieghbor...so be it.His tough luck I reckon.I might take this one step further...while on the subject of "cameras.You look at the NEWEST way for criminals to get your info...okay.Think about this...yer standing in line at the market...using your debit card.Guy behind ya "appears" to be conversing on his cell phone...okay?Guess what...he's taking a pic of your card number AND your pin number.Now he goes and gets a copy made(easily I might add).He's right into your account same day.Sound scarey...well..yeah.So who should we REALLY be worried about....the "Government Black Helicopters"...or nice American guy..Joe Blow?Fear the Government.Not me.There's enough assholes out there already to be concerned about.

...Guess what...he's taking a pic of your card number AND your pin number.Now he goes and gets a copy made(easily I might add).He's right into your account same day.

This is another good reason to stop using your debit card and use a real credit card. Then they can't clean out your checking account full of your real money in one day. Sure, you'd get it back eventually, after weeks of dealing with your banks and the police.. in the mean time you are broke. At least if you use a real credit card they can't take your actual funds. Then you still got funds while the banks and police solve the case. Not nearly as much of your problem as if it were a debit card tied to your checking account now is it? Banks pursue CC theft vigorously. If it's their money on the line, they will work that much harder to find the scum that stole from them... at least there's that. If your signature doesn't appear on the receipt, and it wasn't your purchase... not your loss. Period!

Of course, with a CC you need to pay it off monthly to avoid interest charges.

I have not carried a balance on a credit card longer than 30 days in 4 years. Not 1 penny of interest paid. Now that's a feeling of FREEDOM as tangible as any.

* Last updated by: motoCycho on 11/8/2010 @ 5:35 PM *

Just to clear things up........the jackass is tailgaiting me when I'm in the right lane! I cruise at about 85, and I'm only in the left lane to pass. They usually tailgate me because they're too much of a pussy to speed on their own. So if you're the pussy tailgaiting me with his brights on, I may accidently toss out the last of my milkshake. Better yet, grow a pair and drive at your own speed.

* Last updated by: alg8er on 11/8/2010 @ 10:07 PM *

stevetwo; "As an example: How many of us on this board always obey arbitrarily posted speed limits?"
Does that include stoplights too? Why do we need stoplights I see people run them almost daily, and there are only a few deaths caused. Why bother to stop people at intersections. That's a violation of my right to kill people indiscriminately.

By that definition of a police state, every country in the world is a police state! Your rants remind me of the hippies of the 60's. They hated the regime and all it's laws and rules. Most of them and their children are now the liberals ruining this country. People have been ranting that way since governments started. You're nothing new, and neither are laws. I would rather live in a country of laws where I feel somewhat safe, than some utopia where I have to trust people not to violate my rights on their own principles and morals.
I have an idea. Instead of you trying to convince me how horrible this country is, you tell me a better way.