Yep Kruzster I heard the same thing. But I also heard they did their own maps as well? Still wouldn't hurt to try a couple out just to see...if they're dyno-jet maps they'll just show the dyno-jet numbers in the map notes....Fuel-Moto's own maps should say as much in the map notes. Rook could prolly tell us

Rook is working on that one right now. I heard this rumour on another site but was hoping it wasn't true. One of the reasons you buy from Fuel Moto is they are supposed to offer really well developed maps. If they're just plagerizing off the DynoJet site that is totally uncool. I hope the rumour turns out to be false.

Still looking for a top notch tuner to tweek my CBR's mapping....maybe Johnny Cheese down in Austin. I'm still not satisfied with what I have, the smoothness I was looking for is not there, that takes a lot of enjoyment out of the ride. You could give me a gazillion horsepower tune but if the torque curve looks like a relief map of Crater Lake I'm not going to be pleased.

Kruz

Kruz wrote:

Rook, when you go into the PC USB software and select a map upload for display, the notes will appear at the bottom of the page to tell you what modifications the map is designed to go with.

I received a CD with my PC but I have not installed software to my computer yet.

Still looking for a top notch tuner to tweek my CBR's mapping....maybe Johnny Cheese down in Austin.

I've read a number of posts on busa.org by Johnny and he seems to be very knowledgeable.

Rook, that cd will have all the available maps DJ offers for the 09 14 PC-V on it. It comes with the software and maps for whatever year bike the pc is designed to fit on. You can install the software and look at the maps without ever having your PC-V hooked up to your computer. To get the fuel-moto maps I'm sure you'll either have to download them off the site, or have fuel-moto e-mail them to you. You'll also need the software installed, and your laptop or computer hooked to the PC-V on your bike, and a fresh 9-volt battery hooked to your PC-V, to set the throttle points. Much easier and quicker then it sounds tho

^^Thanks. I'm in no big hurry to try fiddling with maps yet but when the new pipe gets installed, it will be time to figure some of that stuff out. I'm expecting a Fuel Moto map to be emailed today so we'll see if 72 hours is really how fast they move.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/20/2009 @ 9:44 AM *

Rook, you got me and Bad watchin your six and ready to walk you through it when the time comes. It's all pretty simple on the 14, CBR PC3 install was a beotch by comparison... correction....everything on the CBR was a beotch by comparison. LOL!

Kruz

the smoothness I was looking for is not there, that takes a lot of enjoyment out of the ride

It's all relative. I remember my test drive of a KZ1000 I had put together out of boxes which someone had stored in my son's garage. I don't think it was a great tune but at the time I had never enjoyed a ride more.

I am amazed at how few maps are on the Dyno Jet website for the 08 model. Maybe like 12? I would think they would have like a hundred. FuelMoto advertises access to hundreds of maps. If all they have are Dynojets that's sad. Is there anywhere else I can look for maps to download?

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 8/20/2009 @ 4:33 PM *

Guys, when I questioned Fuel Moto about the need for a "retrofit kit" to run a PC5 on an 08 ZX14 with Muzzy M14 exhaust, they replied to me within 24 hours and said all the "kit" consisted of was a free map they had developed for the PC5 on an 08 (flies in) ZX14 with the Muzzy M14 exhaust system.

And that they had 08 (flies in - best way for an 08 or 09) PC5 maps for most full exhaust systems on the market.

I know young people today think nothing of ripping someone's property off by paying for it once (or not at all) and distributing it to a bunch of other people, but most businesses are hesitant to make claims that aren't true. To do so is a shortcut to being forced out of business by a States Attorney.

So no matter what someone says on another board (like, how do you know they aren't skipping their meds and hallucinating? LOL) I'm likely to give Fuel Moto the benefit of trusting their statements until *proven* wrong.

Just don't want to look guilty here. I'm thinking to pay for maps like when you pay for tunes you download. I got a used PCIII and what's available on the CD is slim pickens. I can't afford a custom map every time I change equipment.

I can't afford a custom map every time I change equipment.

So... this justifies theft of property how ? Just saying.... :)

Just don't want to look guilty here. I'm thinking to pay for maps like when you pay for tunes you download

Kinda hard to follow him here Privateer but I think what Sharkey's saying is, he'd be willing to pay for maps just like you pay for music downloads. We needn't be so quick to judge others, I think that is fair and I think almost anyone would feel the same way. If FuelMoto, Ivan, Brock's or anyone else developing maps would agree to sell a map to try out for my application I would be glad to pay for the privilege. An example might be to charge $50 or $100, whatever, for one time use of a map, your leasing the product in a sense. A custom mapping session on a DJ dyno runs about $250-$300 on average so obviously they can't charge anywhere near that much. I'm actually surprised someone hasn't tried this yet. Most likely reason is maps get shared just like CDs and DVDs get copied. There is a lot of pirating going on out there and it's hard to police it. A map is intellectual property and as such infers certain legal protection under the law. I'm not a lawyer but it is my understanding that the material must be copyrighted or re-distribution must be prohibited in writing for this to carry any weight. Ivan was the only one I know of that went that route. The agreement not to share any of his maps was verbal and most honored it although apparently, not everyone. When you have a custom map created during a dyno session are you prohibited by DynoJet or the tuner from sharing that map with anyone else? Does FuelMoto specifically prohibit redistribution of their maps?

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 8/21/2009 @ 8:35 AM *

I'm likely to give Fuel Moto the benefit of trusting their statements until *proven* wrong.

My apologies but I must have missed something, exactly what statement are we talking about here?

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 8/21/2009 @ 8:28 AM *

zOnce you figure out that map made that day is junk, you hear others cry for a better running map than what was downloaded off a website.

One man's junk is another man's treasure chest is pound that chest you are coughing up a winter blend in a summer swelter melt her, welt her is she running shitty. I need to sign on and go askiss for a mapiss that shit of mine is well, downloaded is wait for March to roll around again, if I need that mapiss crap piss.

Anyone have an August mapissing out the goods?

Agreed Hub, that's exactly the issue the newer PCV with lambda sensor and autotuning fixes. I got a feeling the DJ map I have now is going to run great in about another two months when cooler weather rolls in. Too rich right now I'm guessin. No way to know for sure.... without A/F data yer jus pissin in the wind.

Kruz

Thanks for your support Kruz. I too am suprised that there is no business operating to sell maps. I've assumed that a map is like a computer program. You buy the rights to use it. Like Hub said, summer turns to winter, temps and humidity change and suddenly you're running yesterdays map. Already I see myself being driven to the auto tune system. I just put my PCIII on and thought it would be sufficient. The shortcomings are smacking me in the face. How have all the other Power Commander users handled the continuous need for readjustment??

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 8/21/2009 @ 12:24 PM *

No problem Sharkey, we're all in the same boat when it comes to maps. I've noticed my Ivan map has a sweet spot, works perfect from about 80 degrees to 95 degrees here at 800 foot above mean sea level. Higher temps up to about 102 degrees and response feels slightly softer but still strong. When air temps get down around 50 to 60 degrees it doesn't feel right, probably a touch lean. I may go in this winter and add +5% fuel to all cells and see how that works. I called Dyno Jet technical support on my CBR map and they said all their maps are setup a bit rich and for sea level conditions. If you are at higher altitudes like Bad in Black or extreme warm conditions then these generic maps won't be optimal. PC5 and Autotune or a custom tune on your PCIII are the only way I see. Some guys I talked to have more than one map, i.e. winter and summer map. I think the CBR is going to scream on this map come winter time.

Kruz

Kruz'Inn said: PC5 and Autotune or a custom tune on your PCIII are the only way I see.

I disagree. What that tune will do is run the same rich set, only refined rich. So, you still have cells that are set rich and not set OEM base generic for O/L conditions. You have Lamda lapped in it's own loop. There are no loops the the 02 can recognize as do the intake sensor and tail section sensor for elevation, being in, "Open Loop" no matter the aftmkt 02.

So, technically, it may ping off the TPS, but if it were built into the system where they are designed for the 02, then you'd have a change where if say for example; how would you ride up in elevation with a rich layer of map with less air you are riding up to? You would at least have to turn the PC off to run leaner at least. No?

Look, what I am saying is if we are happy with that slight change in temperature or altitude, you need not worry. I can feel the same tune sour, as soon the bike can take some cable being warm an all, I can feel what that bike likes, ambient wise for that day. It is so slight a change, you are still within a safe/cool/window. Why? Because you would foul plugs big time if over rich. You would soot the plugs way more if you took a fast zip up a ton plus, but you do not. You are within running spec, where there is no heat danger > Running hot or lean hot, being that danger zone it runs in is about to seize.

Not one bike has seized a piston if not blending/shooting exotics that is. Not really that big of a deal if you like the way the map is now off the net. We are cutting hairs as far as high-performance-tuning, not just normal, smooth running with the slight kick the PC/cutters give.

You know what suprised me Big K, Ivans map worked flawlessly up here at 4500-5000ft.....smooth as butter and extremely strong everywhere. I really wasn't expecting that. And the stock cobra settings for the mods on my busa are also working great. I think maybe the bikes adjusted better than I expected? I just hope the turbo map works out as well (fingers crossed. My 14 did act a bit funny bone stock when I was driving it up from sea level to my house at 5000ft. but once I shut it off and restarted it was good to go from there on out

Doesn't the bike run the same way stock? I mean it runs better some days and worse others. I've never had a bike that ran perfect every day and every tank of gas, let alone from a 100 degree day through a 75 degree evening. I think some of you are getting too picky, like the guys on some home theater forums that see video artifacts when they're 12" away from their TV. If you race, then yes, tune for that day, but otherwise you'll be chasing a laser dot like a cat. :-)

I've run my stock bike in air that was 100 F - 0 F and there wasn't a huge change. Anyone who spends the money on a full system will probably want to get all they can out of it with a decent map, though. Personally, I wouldn't be bringing it to the tuner every time the air temp drops 20 degrees but Autotune is a cost effective route.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/23/2009 @ 5:51 AM *

Doesn't the bike run the same way stock? I mean it runs better some days and worse others. I've never had a bike that ran perfect every day and every tank of gas, let alone from a 100 degree day through a 75 degree evening. I think some of you are getting too picky, like the guys on some home theater forums that see video artifacts when they're 12" away from their TV. If you race, then yes, tune for that day, but otherwise you'll be chasing a laser dot like a cat. :-)

Stockers do run diffferent day to day depending upon atmospherics. Not being overly picky but we ride pretty much year around here in Dallas and temperature swing is 60 to 70 degrees between summer and winter months. That much of a spread will take the edge off your bikes tune at one time or another. You can tune for winter or tune for summer and except that it won't always run crisp or you can opt to have more than one map. That's the direction I'm leaning. Some guys are just happy if their bike runs others like me are a bit more finicky about the tune. Just my .02

Kruz

You know what suprised me Big K, Ivans map worked flawlessly up here at 4500-5000ft.....smooth as butter and extremely strong everywhere. I really wasn't expecting that. And the stock cobra settings for the mods on my busa are also working great. I think maybe the bikes adjusted better than I expected? I just hope the turbo map works out as well (fingers crossed. My 14 did act a bit funny bone stock when I was driving it up from sea level to my house at 5000ft. but once I shut it off and restarted it was good to go from there on out

Bad that is surprising that the map worked so well at altitude. You're right though, that is an amazingly smooth map and that's what has spoiled me now, I can't get my Honda to run like that and it's driving me bonkers. I rode the 14 early Sunday morning, favorite time to ride, no traffic on the freeway and air temp 70 degrees. It was almost magical it ran so good. I hope you can get that smooth back with your turbo setup.

Kruz

Hub said, in some previous thread, that the 14 has an altitude sensor built in which will correct for higher elevations. It makes sense that the manufacturer would want to have a machine be able to go over a mountain pass and run well all the way. My educated guess would be that the maps aren't dependent on altitude but make adjustments by the sensor input, same as engine temperature or other inputs.

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 8/24/2009 @ 5:56 PM *

Could be, does that include temperature compensation as well though?

Kruz

I talked with Ivan about his map and if it would be fine at my elevation....he said the bike would adjust and it would run great. He wasn't kidding........the 14 with Ivans set-up has been hands down the smoothest, strongest running bike I've ever swung a leg over.....heaven on 2 wheels imo Big K its gonna be hard to find another bike/map set-up to perform like the Ivan/14 combo lol. I know the turbo's not gonna be as smooth and heavenly as Ivans set-up...but I'm going to use a data-logger to try and dial it in as good as I can. And the power should make up for any slight "inadequacies" with throttle smoothness I am gonna miss Ivans map tho......my 14 had such huge, smooth, tire spinning hang on and pray power from idle all the way up....its gonna be hard to replace that kind of power delivery lol. It made my busa fell gutless down low and peaky if you can believe that

I feel the same way Badmeister, I was out again on the 14 last night and can't believe how easy it is coming off corners when the power comes on that smooth. I just roll on the throttle and she PULLS HARD but not a hiccup to be found anywhere in the power curve. I can gain more time on corner exits than I could by having a bigger topend hit. The CBR is frustrating the heck out of me right now, it has the notchiest power band I've ever experienced. The problem is it hits hard way down low, hard as my 14 if you can believe that, then falls flat on it's face between 3 and 4K. After that it starts to build power fast and linear but the inline four vibration kicks in from 5 to 7K which takes a lot of enjoyment out of it. From 7K to the 12,200 redline she screams like a Banshee, smooth and very linear power, possibly as quick as my 14 if you keep it on the boil. Problem is I don't like to run up against the rev limiter all the time, it's just not fun to me. I've done my homework and no matter what pipe you put on the CBR the power curve remains identical. This leads me to believe there is a resonance issue at low rpm, possibly in the intake tuning. I'm thinking about callin Ivan and see if he can work some magic on this thing for me. OK, rant off, I'll quit bitchin now.

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 8/25/2009 @ 8:14 AM *