Ok,
So i have had issues with fuel economy forever. I have another post about it, but i have thought since i got the bike that the brakes grab too much. I finally purchased a front stand so i could see how much they are grabbing. Well, i can barely move the front wheel freely. I have added a video to show what is going on...

As you can see, they are barely moving. I bled the brakes in hopes that it would get better, and here are the results.

Not that much different. Does anyone have any suggestions on making the front brakes grab less?
Also, my rear tire moves a little more freely then my front. Is this normal?

I have never understood why my bike was so hard to walk. My old bike was only 100 lbs lighter, but it felt so much lighter.

* Last updated by: viperkillertt on 4/29/2012 @ 12:41 AM *

Sounds like the front calipers need a good cleaning/overhaul. The pistons that push the pads onto the rotors may be corroded or loaded with brake dust and road munge. The pads should 'kiss' the rotors when the lever is released, but not drag like you describe. That leads to brake overheating, fluid expansion and further lockup. Pull the calipers, take out the pads, pistons and seals and start cleaning. If the piston are corroded, lightly sand them with some fine sandpaper. New seals and rubber dustcovers wouldn't hurt, either.

Brake dragging too much?

I am not so sure that looks unusual. I am pretty sure mine does not spin free.. I don't think it will make a full revolution even on one good, hard spin. maybe a half rev?. I will go try tomorrow evening.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/28/2012 @ 9:50 PM *

I am with you Rook! Not a problem.

Yeah, and the second vid you put the url to up there, after the bleed looks perfectly norm to me.

IDK why the code for the first one does not work but the after bleed vid is more important anyway.. There is nothing wrong with the way this tire spins IMO.

Also, my rear tire moves a little more freely then my front. Is this normal?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tt2ycFpd-RI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Looks totally norm. The rear brake does not drag as much as the fronts do but the chain and sprockets create free spin resistance. The rear wheel will turn a bit more than the front but no full 360 on one push. I have been spinning nmy wheels for years.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/28/2012 @ 10:05 PM *

I have never understood why my bike was so hard to walk. My old bike was only 100 lbs lighter, but it felt so much lighter.

I'm sure many other members have owned more bikes than I have but IMO, 100 lbs makes a tremendous dif in the feel of the bike rolling. My busa rolls harder than my 14 and it is pretty close to 100 lbs heavier.

BTW, the busa rear wheel spins half a rev on one push just like the 14. Pretty sure the fronts drag the same too.

One trick to resetting brakes is when you have the wheel off for a tire change or whatever, be sure and push the pads back a good amount so there is plenty of space to slide the wheel and rotor back on without having to squeeze the rotor in tight between the brake pads. When you have the wheels off the pads will move out some, and the rubber seals also tend to move forward as the pads wear, and like to "stick" so to speak, keeping the pad pressure higher against the rotor. When you physically push the pads back into the caliper, you release some of the "stiction" by moving the seals back, and once the wheel is on and tight you pump the brakes till the pads reset against the rotor again and you're good to go. You'd be amazed the diff it makes in rolling resistance. All my bikes roll easier than most other bikes I've ever rolled around. Plus you save wear on pads and rotors

One trick to resetting brakes is when you have the wheel off for a tire change or whatever, be sure and push the pads back a good amount so there is plenty of space to slide the wheel and rotor back on without having to squeeze the rotor in tight between the brake pads. When you have the wheels off the pads will move out some, and the rubber seals also tend to move forward as the pads wear, and like to "stick" so to speak, keeping the pad pressure higher against the rotor. When you physically push the pads back into the caliper, you release some of the "stiction" by moving the seals back, and once the wheel is on and tight you pump the brakes till the pads reset against the rotor again and you're good to go. You'd be amazed the diff it makes in rolling resistance. All my bikes roll easier than most other bikes I've ever rolled around. Plus you save wear on pads and rotors

The second vid of the front wheel doesn't look bad, but what happens after you've ridden it and used them again? Does it do what it did in the first vid? if so, it's dragging too much. If it spins free like in the second vid, you're golden.

* Last updated by: Danno on 4/29/2012 @ 4:31 AM *

there seems to be a clunking noise in the first vid but I wouldn't worry too much about it if the bike seems to be rolling ok. Looks like you freed it up. If you lift it and it is clunking again and really stiff, I'd just remove the caliper bolts and try prying the pads apart like BnB said. You can use a thin piece of wood or something that will not gouge your pads instead of a screwdriver. You can do it with your fingers. They open pretty slow against the pressure but they will move even with bare hands.

You want the one with the peg in the center of the bottom lower fork stem.

Cool, i just bought that stand last week from cycle gear, so i will return it. It was not allowing my brake to move freely because it was touching the brake as it moved by. Too tight. I was considering returning it anyways. Thanks. Do you have any suggestions on finding one for a little less money? I got this one for 45 from cycle gear with tax on sale.

Ahem...that 'chain noise' is normal...it's rubbing on the top swingarm rubber baby bumper!!!!!!NORMAL.It looks to me and sounds(on that front anyway)that the bearings are damaged.How tight did you tighten your axle nuts up too?It shouldn't be clunking as it is...you may have damaged em IF you overtightened.Better remove that front and check out those bearings.You didn't POSSIBLY leave the spacer/washer(S) off the front axle did you?The second vid after bleeding does seem better....calipers..as someone mentioned...caliper pistons.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/29/2012 @ 11:46 AM *

Ahem...that 'chain noise' is normal...it's rubbing on the top swingarm rubber baby bumper!!!!!!NORMAL.It looks to me and sounds(on that front anyway)that the bearings are damaged.How tight did you tighten your axle nuts up too?It shouldn't be clunking as it is...you may have damaged em IF you overtightened.The whee(front) is DEFINITELY NOT turning okay.Better remove that front and check out those bearings.You didn't POSSIBLY leave the spacer/washer off the front axle did you?

Also, I lube my chain very regularly, probably every 100-200 miles. Sometimes a few times a week. That is one maintenance item that i do work on staying on top of.

Also, i need to note that i have had some strange braking issues at low speed. I cant really explain it well, but at 5-10mph as i am coming to a stop, i will get a very strange sound and then sometimes a slight shutter. It does not happen all the time, i am wondering if it is brake dust piling up. I don't understand because the wheel was changed about 1000-1200 miles ago. They should have checked this stuff when they did the tire change.

* Last updated by: viperkillertt on 4/29/2012 @ 11:49 AM *

Pit Bull fork lift stand and fork lift converter.

gonna cost you way more than $45. you can do all you need to do if you get this stand. A steering stem pivot stand is nice if you need to remove forks. I use the stem lift to take the front axle out. For brake caliper work, it would be easier to use an under fork lift stand.

recent thread on front stands.

http://www.zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=EF74DB62-D56B-84E2-11BFB79A0DAAF6EF

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/29/2012 @ 11:49 AM *

Thank you.
I was looking at this one...
http://t-rex-racing.com/catalog.php?item=54
I have the t rex rear stand from 4 years ago and it still is working well. Anyone like the front one? It is convertible to do both pads and steering stem it says.

Your front brakes should not be acting strange...period.They should be releasing as you release the lever.No Noise...no binding...look at your rotors...any scoring going on?Riding with your front not rolling freely is VERY DANGEROUS...whether it's being caused by mucked up piston action,or bad bearings.As things heat up...from the friction or whatever,the risk of a serious lockup gets bigger and bigger.You need to get those calipers sorted...cleaned...whatever.You DO have the correct pads in there,yes?And they're sitting in there correctly,yes?You're sure?Someone here mentioned 'kissing' the rotors.That's all they should be doing...BARELY skimming the rotor surface....basically ZERO resistance(damn close to it..not anything like your vids are showing...although that second one is 'better' after the brake bleed...).Seems like your pistons are not fully releasing.Listen....IF you've been riding it with that friction going on....it would be BEST...to have those calipers(pistons) REDONE(cleaned up well)...seriously...the rubber parts replaced with new and reinstalled.The heat generated by that kind of poor brake action is devastating to those rubber parts.No telling what the previous owner did using that front brake to get it to act the way it is.Maybe he was 'doing stoppies' all the time or something?Who knows.This could DEFINITELY be the reason your fuel mileage is low.

Trust us Viper...you need to get em braking correctly...smoothly...without that rolling resistance as it is.I'd say...even after that bleed job...they're still not okay.

The rear is fine from what I hear and see.....spin that wheel in the direction of rotation....I think you'll see it isn't making the same noise.And rolling just fine.It's the links hitting the rubber bushing edge right there as it moves across the chain run.Mine does it...all mine did it.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/29/2012 @ 12:25 PM *

Update: I have removed the pads from the bike. I am pretty sure that there is nothing wrong with the bearings, but there is something seriously wrong with the brakes.
Here is a video of the pad pins released on only one side. Instantly a change in rotation.

Here is a video of the pads removed from both sides, it rotates very freely. The clicking is the rotor hitting the stand, but there is nothing wrong with it.

Here is a picture of the pads from the "Right Foot when you are sitting on it" Side. Left side if you are looking straight on the bike. The left side is almost gone!!! These pads have a manufacturing date of 01/09. They are ECB brakes. I purchased the bike with 10k miles on it in March of 2011, it now has 13k. So the bike was on its second set of pads at around 5k miles i am guessing. These were probably installed in the summer of 2009. 2 years after it was purchased! I am used to getting 15-20k on a set of pads.
Here is the other side, left foot when riding. Pretty even wear.

Suggestions please, what would cause such strange wear? It is almost like that one side is doing all of the braking for the whole front. All other 6 pads are pretty similar. I am very glad i kept checking and did not take the original advice of people saying that it was normal and nothing was wrong.

* Last updated by: viperkillertt on 4/29/2012 @ 1:35 PM *

Well,
I just finished cleaning all of the pistons/calipers and i am about to bleed the brakes. I am a little disappointed because i am not seeing a huge difference between before and now in tire rotation. I got A TON of junk off. I was excited because before i clamped them down the wheel was moving about 1 rotation before it would stop. getting the air out, it would not go much more then before the cleaning.

Can someone please give me a suggestion on why one set of pads are so far down. 4.9mm vs about 6.9-7 avg for the other 6 pads. That is a HUGE difference. What could cause that? My rotors are avg 4.8-4.9 thick, should i just get a new set of pads to replace the pair that is nearly gone?

Another question, do most people only have to tap the front brake lever for it to brake? I am used to my old bike which did not have braided SS brake lines. I would have to actually pull on the lever to get it to brake. On the 14, i just tap them and they are fully down. There is no 1/2 down on the lever. It instantly grabs fully when you tap the lever. Is this normal?

* Last updated by: viperkillertt on 4/29/2012 @ 5:46 PM *

do most people only have to tap the front brake lever for it to brake?

Also, if you have SS brake lines, that does not make a huge dif in braking capability on the 14. My OEM rubber hoses had over 20,000 miles on them and 4 years old and they were just as good as the kevlar lines I put on. The 14 just has superb brakes. If you do not need to pull the lever hard, that is the way it should be.

I am a little disappointed because i am not seeing a huge difference between before and now in tire rotation

The the left caliper is functioning normally. The right outer caliper pistons are not working or they are working a lot less than the right inner pistons. All you can do is clean them and replace any replacement parts. If that doesn't work, get a new caliper.

I have the t rex rear stand from 4 years ago and it still is working well. Anyone like the front one? It is convertible to do both pads and steering stem it says.

My rear wheel spins 1 1/4 full turns with a good heft, both hands pushing down (which is spinning the wheel backward by the way). I hear my chain rattle against the swingarm chain guide like Grn said. Same as yours.

The front is freer on my bike than yours appears to spinning in your vids. I give mine a good spin and it rotates for 3 full seconds and makes 3 complete revolutions before it stops. There is a rub I hear but it is a light rub. I'm sure that is the kiss of the pads on the rotors.

I'm sure this has occurred to you but ---seems likely (I won't quite say 'obvious') that your right inner pad is dragging too much. That is why the front does not turn as free as it should and also why the inner pad has worn so much more. I think your inner right piston is not retracting. It's stuck. Can you manually press the piston in so it is flush to the brake pad slot or does it remain protruding?

The fronts are 4 piston calipers. I am sorry the lighting is not the greatest in these pics to show a lot of detail but you can see that I left one set of pistons protruding on this removed front caliper. The other set of pistons in this caliper are not visible. I pressed them in and I believe they will press all the way flush to the pad slot wall they come out of. It would seem that they are flush because you cannot see them.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/29/2012 @ 7:56 PM *

Pull the calipers off again....bleed the brake system there.That pad wear is terrible.That piston there is not working okay.Looks like something is holding it in against that rotor....something.You gotta get that fixed...don't even THINK about using those pads again.New ones...new caliper seals...newly cleaned and smooth piston surfaces...the whole nine yards.May as well....Then start from scratch again with fresh clean fluid and a good bleed/fill.It should NOT be rubbing as it is on that rotor.IS it possible...that that side of the wheel has a missing spacer in there,making that wheel slightly off center,and causing that caliper to not be opening enough because of it?I'd check that wheel side carefully and make sure everything is in place axle-wise.Did you open that side's bleed nipple?and if so...what happened when you pulled in the lever and opened that nipple?(the bad pad side there).I'm wondering if MAYBE there's a piece of rubber or something from the internals of the line that have created a blockage to that caliper somehow....stopping the fluid from returning fully to that caliper.You bled from that side,yes?And got a good flow of fluid coming out at the nipple,right?

You bled from that side,yes?And got a good flow of fluid coming out at the nipple,right?

"There is quite a bit of noise"...like what?...you should only hear a sound like a blade running across another blade...that's all.Minimally at best.

Before you install those pads,take your front wheel...and grasp it at the back and front there.Keep the forks stationary(firmly,so they CAN'T move side to side as in turning).Make sure the tire isn't touching the ground.Now flex that front wheel there...is it moving AT ALL?...any slop...clicking...catching feeling while trying to move it back and forth without the forks moving.The grease seals ARE on there on both sides,yes?and the spacers?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/30/2012 @ 12:22 AM *

Here is the last video of it rotating freely. One issue is that it catches on the frame jack.

Here is a video of the pistons moving out at basically the same time. All 8 pistons were moving VERY freely when I finished.

* Last updated by: viperkillertt on 4/30/2012 @ 12:31 AM *