WATT is Flash? I am no expert on bikes as you know. Especially the computer bike. I need to be corrected as to what I think is flash and how I read a flashed bike. Here is an example and to find what I am describing, search a little. It will open your eyes to the puzzle flash.

So the sample says, 'Yeah, I got my bike/car flashed and I can feel the bottom come alive.' You know what that flash sample says to me? It says I flashed (toggled either or) the hard for the tre sendoff or the soft she is all stock.

Because of this 1 and 0 toggling or communicating to a battery pulse or say 12v is pulsed to read the computer's 5v communication; has a backup sort of aerospace trickle down my 1 and 0.

My guess here, not being an expert on computers and the software, watt I am saying is that if I have read the shop manual, a flash means a code. I.E., the backup is in play. I see no other way. If a-N is one setting, then D-J is the next. I.E., if you ride the analog, you ride a sensor up the smooth or soft linear line with the ignition. If you ride the only other signal is what I think they refer to a flash is that hard set. If that is the case, then you now ride the digital setting or the hack to the GPS. It's fast and twitchy like they sort of describe that GPS signal when you short the bike out/disconnect/wire out = Either it runs in the 1 or your dropped signal; turns hard limp meaning the 'ignition retard go check your advance in the hard. Now plug the wire back in to check the linear advance runs up to the same number. One advanced quicker than the other; i.e., VOEStyle old style ignition check is still with us.

And me being a novice at this computer bike, I would have to revert back to a simple device called a VOES. This says it is a Various On/Off Electrical Signal. And since I am a various, the black box is the ultimate ignition curve we just flashed the black box removing the VOES is wire.

As far as all that hardware needed for automotive work, I have no clue what is needed to download from a car's computer but the hand held you use from under the dash. That plug is the door to the computer. Once you are in the ECU, how much can you do in there but toggle an 0 to a 1 or a 1 to an 0 yes or no?

I am confused if I am stuck looking at that flash in that manor. If the customer of the car says it has bottom end bust out the bottom grunt, that says it hacked the hard. It also says a 24 hour turn around. That to me says, I am not going to run some map in there and foul your plugs Chefoo syle. I am going to flash a few 1's and 0's is that fast a fix and now here you go as flash as possible it's back next day all plugged back in.

Flash I assume is different than changing a prom. A prom is a post-map or it changes that scheduling. And that says that the CHP here with their pursuit cruisers; changed out a performance chip/prom whatever you wanna call it, and the stock prom/chip outpissed out a better map was the factory mapping. Sha-Ding! So much for performance out engineering a team of engineers @ Delphi.

If you know that GPS tone from a stock setting, you are going to get a flashing without the gear window holding 6 open in flash... Meaning.

I am not expert, but I assume flash means switching to the (((hard setting))) No? Plug the computer back in and did not the stock 0 ignore the 1 to move? Did you have to physically move a switch to set it to 1 so 0 is no longer the ping in soft mode but now pings in hard mode?

That was a question for the flash players, ((((JOE))))

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Guhl motors or Ecu Unleashed can bring you up to speed on re-flashing Hub. It allows you to build a custom fuel map without a PC. They can change top speed limiter etc.

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Its simple. I worked in the semiconductor industry for quite some time. I will use generic terms. ATK and other defense semiconductor makers use slightly different terms, but a rose is a rose by any name.

The ECU is a combination of a PLU (programmable logic unit.... ie a custom-purpose computer) and programmable CMOS solid state non-erasable memory.

So in stock form, you cannot change anything in the ECU as all the microcode is read-only from the outside.

A flash is when you set a bit on one or more pins of the PLU and/or CMOS which lets a Programmer push down new microcode, all in one block. In other words, you aren't just changing a byte here and a bit there, you are pushing down a block of bits equal to the size of the CMOS and/or PLU.

So for instance, to remove max speed limit(s) you have get a copy of CMOS on a EPROM, change the part that tells the PLU to cut fuel or whatever it does, and then push that entire EPROM contents out to the CMOS.

I don't know, maybe the ZX14 has a EPROM and not CMOS, but its all the same in the end.

So lets say you wanted to add TC from the 2011 ZX10R. You'd have to find some blank space in the CMOS large enough to hold the microcode, and then modify the PLU to load it and execute it. If the CMOS doesn't have enough room, then you cannot implement TC.

So it is likely the 2011+ ZX10 has a bigger CMOS/EPROM in the ECU to begin with.

This is why nobody has produced a completely satisfactory hack to the ZX14 ECU. If I had it on an emulator I could find everything, and be able to change things, but I may not have room to stuff TC code in to the CMOS, or the PLU (which is almost assuredly hardwired - no way to change how it computes).

This is why the piggy works, it just intercepts signals from the ECU headed for the throttlebodies and ignition, and modifies them. Because the PLU always does exactly the same thing. And the PLU is trying to set A/F based on a static map stored in the CMOS, which the factory designed as reliable and suitable for street use in most cases.

So, flashing the ZX14 ECU is sort of a waste of time, unless the CMOS has some spare storeage on it, and the PLU can be convinced to process the new code. Which is unlikely.

Of course, you could essentially take, for instance, Brock's Track Map with Driveability Tweaks and push that into the CMOS, and not use a piggy. But then you'd need a piggy anyway if you wanted to run another map.

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Now THAT was an excellent explanation.Bravo...

Nice job with the explanation. I have read in Motorcyclist that some of the ECUs have been flashed. Fiarly sure Kawi was not one of them.

Thanks, 68. I'm a member over at RidgeRacer's website. I'm in the middle of VOES experiment so I have to get back to my kit-ECU hack. My plate is kind of full slipping in a 15:1 AFR I'm pretty happy about. That experiment is still going on between the VOES, a faulty ECU with a miss in it to a few injectors that need swapping again.

But let me dissect Mr. Bravo's brave attempt as to what he explained and WATTie my tongue you have to read through:

Its simple.

Says you. I'm going to catch you down the abstract, throw you under the bus. Here we go if it is so easy then step to the music it's that easy.

I worked in the semiconductor industry for quite some time. I will use generic terms. ATK and other defense semiconductor makers use slightly different terms, but a rose is a rose by any name.

As in; backup/fail-safe/limp as in 3 roses are red, vial letsore blue. Do I say the same thing as you? Yes, if roses are blue.

The ECU is a combination of a PLU (programmable logic unit.... ie a custom-purpose computer) and programmable CMOS solid state non-erasable memory.

Yes, as rose is are read alert as one would be, they would see that cam signal is being programmed to run in sequence logic. I would think the logic is 1001 is 1-2-4-3 in a logical step for sequence if you step the 1 is first cylinder. 0 is second. So logic says, even vs. odd fires. Cam has to read the last number and it is saved to know what to fire next. Key is on, the memory is saved and now erased kind of who last fired if you stall or key off kind of 50/50 who sits in the memory tray. Once again it is an on/off-1 or 0/soft or hard.

So in stock form, you cannot change anything in the ECU as all the microcode is read-only from the outside.

Agreed. Do you hear the bus coming? In hack form, there is a backup inside. So if there is only a ding or a dong, don't you set either one off? Like a light switch on a wall is either on or off. Are you not saying the same thing if you change the GPS, did you not select the other side? The wire off kind of quicker ignition?

A flash is when you set a bit on one or more pins of the PLU and/or CMOS which lets a Programmer push down new microcode, all in one block. In other words, you aren't just changing a byte here and a bit there, you are pushing down a block of bits equal to the size of the CMOS and/or PLU.

In other words, are you buckling chip? Either the chip buckles 65,000 times until you render that chip all chipped out like shattered glass under a microscope from a hot dip on the motherboard kind of birthday card open it and hear the CMOS play the PLU over and over and over. My question is that if the kit-ECU says you can toggle back and forth, are you not smashing chip as in change it to soft to hard to soft is a ping or that switching from one block to the other backup block. And then it says to send it back so we can toggle back to the stock soft mode or switching.

So for instance, to remove max speed limit(s) you have get a copy of CMOS on a EPROM, change the part that tells the PLU to cut fuel or whatever it does, and then push that entire EPROM contents out to the CMOS.

Disagree. I think you better get yourself from under the bus. As soon as you said, "or whatever it does" shows me you do not have the steps there, guy. You should know via FI how simple that cut is and how simple it is to unlock it if we are just an on/offorever box. Can you change the oil and grease the fittings while you're down there? Grease gun ((((Incoming!!!)))

I don't know, maybe the ZX14 has a EPROM and not CMOS, but its all the same in the end.

I thought you knew this shit? Does not eprom have legs? You can switch-out an eprom, but you can't switch out a CMOS. You can change the CMOS to able or disable. Show me you remove the bake in the back and swap the eprom out is there is your hot rod or main guy you can squirt and fire. Right? Can't pull the eprom out of a busa box either. I'm asking, without that $1000 plug tether for the kit-ECU to the software, it's just and CMOS away from a soft to a hard. Able/Disable. Are we under the same bus yet?

So lets say you wanted to add TC from the 2011 ZX10R. You'd have to find some blank space in the CMOS large enough to hold the microcode, and then modify the PLU to load it and execute it. If the CMOS doesn't have enough room, then you cannot implement TC.

That computer is smaller than the 14's and does more. What room are you talking about? These are going to wind up to be matchbox size with tons to do. Wait.

So it is likely the 2011+ ZX10 has a bigger CMOS/EPROM in the ECU to begin with.

Agree. I have no clue what is inside or can match from year to year.

This is why nobody has produced a completely satisfactory hack to the ZX14 ECU. If I had it on an emulator I could find everything, and be able to change things, but I may not have room to stuff TC code in to the CMOS, or the PLU (which is almost assuredly hardwired - no way to change how it computes).

So what you are saying is watt I am saying, right? That you read guys feel that quick jerk or the 'twitch' of that GPS hack. Right? And if you read those Yamahas getting flashed by JETT, they still cry about it running like a GPS hack and then say it needs mapping still. Go figure.

This is why the piggy works, it just intercepts signals from the ECU headed for the throttlebodies and ignition, and modifies them. Because the PLU always does exactly the same thing. And the PLU is trying to set A/F based on a static map stored in the CMOS, which the factory designed as reliable and suitable for street use in most cases.

Bring the next bus. This has nothing to do with street use. This follows an rpm and one other number and that number is?

So, flashing the ZX14 ECU is sort of a waste of time, unless the CMOS has some spare storeage on it, and the PLU can be convinced to process the new code. Which is unlikely.

You gotta be kidding, right?

Of course, you could essentially take, for instance, Brock's Track Map with Driveability Tweaks and push that into the CMOS, and not use a piggy. But then you'd need a piggy anyway if you wanted to run another map.

Did he touch ignition? No. Did he just time an X to Y? Yes. Is that all he can do with a pc? Has to be. No one is running an advancer you can change, right? Just plug in a pc. If you plug in the crank sensor, then whatever final map is, there is no way to set the ignition or other parameters like a kit-ECU.

One more time; Flash went nowhere but a toggle to the hard set, yes or no. Able or disable, yes or no means set soft or set hard. Rose is a rose is set soft is D-J, set hard is a-N. If book says; hey, did you toggle a hard set? Then, here is you lag gear gag here. And blue, I toggle on the fly the N or the 6... Want to know where the timing when? Nowhere. It's redundant. The rods and dome are so tall as in a degree window is set that flame front here period. If the cylinder shrunk would not the piston need to move higher out the head and fire line see that crank to fire ratio? Square to the bore and stroke? So, would you now have a set advance for that x=bore y=stroke z=the degree the dome is sent up the stroke so the process has to end at least at 10° ATDC? That power stroke is now on after 10 degrees. See it?

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/5/2011 @ 4:14 PM *

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Hub, you should have rested your fingers rather than type that gibberish.

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Priv, I may have a few in my camp that can follow me. Perhaps you forget that we do not need a flash done to loop out of the 186mph limiter. You need to [install that] loop to limit so that says 'able.' If we drop the speed sensor that calcs the 186 limit, it is as simple as saying 'disable' and was that not a simple on/off scenario?

Watt I am explaining is you are locked out of that puppy sans toggling an able to a disable or a soft to a hard. For example, Privvy, for you to discuss FI; it is the same as discussing a 4-stroke cycle. You do not stop midstream describing the concept or have no clue if this is the next step.

For your information, FI steps like any other concept. It has a start and a finish in steps. Has it not a sequence for every degree... Beginning with 0 degrees or it couldn't start, right? So if you want to continue figuring out what flash does and means, I'm correcting you in a way or tapped you on the shoulder and ask if that is the next sequence or not, Mr. 4-Stroke FI?

No matter if I talk to Mr. Jett flat out, he is clueless. He told me to talk to his flasher? And he's flashing ECU's? He waits for the guy to get off his 9 to 5 and works at night flashing? I don't know? You'd think you'd have the stuff there and get it out same day if it's that easy. Not wait for dynojet to fly out and tune your bike kind of [you] have the dyno already, right?

Do you see what I'm saying? They get flashed but it sure says you still need a PC and that is my point. All you did was meet and greet Ivan not for $70 bucks but for $400 bucks is still free if you ass me. Key Lick! <<< Means my finger hit replay.

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I got a SpeedoHealer v4, Hub, I know I don't need a flash to get rid of max speed limit.

That was never the point. The point was to do it in the ECU so no external hack is needed, I'd need to change the code in an EPROM copy, and flash that complete into the ECU.

And you are still just talking gibberish.

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Let us play computer with the ram and rom working so we can run 2 ways to the same end. If I take a mouse and click, I get a means to an end. Say I want to reload the current page. Don't I hit the icon and it cycles or refreshes the page?

Could I now press the tab key and cycle up to that icon, press enter and I still reached the same means to the same end. I can still say the same thing as if saying, I'm going to hack the GPS 2 ways to reach the same end. One is to flash it, and if you can't like the 14, you set code... Or meaning, the 6 is set in the display and there is your timing retard hacked/flashed no matter how you speak it... Say yes or no, did the hubbish rubbish right to the same flash or that means to an end?

Very simple... Yes or no? Know your strokes or do not answer.

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I'm looking at the date of this thread. Watt was said. Now I read... Take an EPROM, hold it under an infrared lamp for 3 hours to wipe out the programming, unflash it, etc. It said it was like letting the prom sit out in the sun's rays for a year. And then the next paragraph said some ROM hard parts cannot be reflashed.

No offense, but I have the book the doctor ordered is every step to the computer processing. What the book does not state is what kind of programming the Wooly setup is? This was Wooly was written by someone and there are way too many math formulas that rep computer speak. So if there are 3 numbers in a cell that is fuel. This means an octal move vs. Bi.

Romes, you listening? So if I now open the ignition map, I now have a decimal set of numbers. If you learned anything in hubbish, Romes, about FI, here comes a different animal is ECU. In FI, we can talk about the hard parts being the sensors. In ECU, we need to watch what hard part does what inside the ECU?

When I asked about FI, who could I ask about this? So I went alone on my own journey, looked up a few words, built a theory so I could walk it backwards or forwards like a math computation is even in all directions. You know it as priv, and others know it as just rant the hubshitoutheasspeak. And when I do lay it out, some of you can grasp the abstract. Because, where am I going with it? To figure out the 3amigos and their variables, obviously. So I have to be exact. There is formula there in the concept. It now becomes a math formula hunt.

So if we do this apples to oranges thing, or an apple is to a ???... We can say: the 3amigos is to a boat anchor, is as FI is to the Penultimate Number, is ECU is to 2.

Lets break this down in a fundamental fashion are the very first steps to each one... 3 parts to starting the bike or hooking a chain on it is: Fu/Sp/Com. Lose one, she no run are 3 little steps with a huge root system to decipher. FI has a penultimate number and that is 760mmHg. When FI fails, the backup goes into a 'Method.' That number can be said in all sorts of ways of numbers. So for FI, numbers like 14.7, or 0, or 1 atmosphere, or 101, it all has to do with numbers and one formula to decipher? For the ECU, the penultimate number is 2. On this side of the screen we read print like you are reading now. On the other side of the screen, the ECU is reading Bi, or 1's and 0's, or better know as binary code. So to understand ECU, bottom line so the stars line up: remember your penultimates.

Make sense HubBiStyle?

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Clear as a bell...so to speak;)You've been doing your homework...you get a ...gold star anyway.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/23/2013 @ 10:42 AM *

WATT? WOTT?

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Romes, you listening? So if I now open the ignition map, I now have a decimal set of numbers. If you learned anything in hubbish, Romes, about FI, here comes a different animal is ECU. In FI, we can talk about the hard parts being the sensors. In ECU, we need to watch what hard part does what inside the ECU?

Yes I am listening. Moth to the Flame. First thing that comes to mind is the quote "A Wise Man Knows, The More He Knows The Less He Knows" Fits Here.

Hub I read all these tech threads from many different Web site pages always looking for the guy who can say the most with the least amount of words. Then I try to do the same, all the while, keeping it simple so all can learn.

I ask myself, What is it we are trying to do ? What out come are we looking for ? And how do we get there the most efficient way possible. Is the Flash the way ?

Privateer has explained his view of the Watt ECU very clearly. Hub you have made your points is this discussion but I am still at a loss to understand where you are going with this. What is your goal in the End ? Is the out come more understanding of the Tech ? Once you have this knowledge will it be usefull, Is this knowledge something that can be used in any way ? Or simply the Need to know ?

From My study and from Watt I have seen to date my thinking now is "Way To Much Inside The ECU We Can't see". So I have excepted The fact I for one am never going to see it All. So, if I'm not in the business of building my own programmable ECU's I can spend no more time trying to peek through the Black Curtain.

When the flash software became available I wasted no time jumping in. My long time dream had become a reality.
Now I am very sure I have come full circle. Hub like you I now have more questions than answers.

So I came back to what or how do I work with what we have. All the while Keeping the question alive, What is it we are trying to do ? This keeps the ole Noodle Sane. And Yes the Flash can do what it claims, but how it does it was designed by who????? Mere Hack of some one else's design. This man Was never given a open book. Now in comes the head scratcher ? Is it proper ?????? Hub as you say, Hard Parts does Watt inside ??? Run Away, brain hurts.

Lets face it if ECU Flash was the B all End all why are the pros not using it. Why do we read Quotes like this one

Brock,

With all the testing and tuning that you have done to develop your maps and now the ability to flash almost all aspects of the ECU, have you started looking into added this element to your flash so that we no longer need to use the P/C?

No. ECU tuning has been available for the Busa's for years and we don't tune THE FUEL MAP with the ECU of them either. It's far too coarse- I can tune a Power Commander in 250 RPM increments and genuinely OUT ACCELERATE an ECU Fuel Map tune (in the real world/any day of the week) in real world testing (+ ride smoother and get better fuel mileage in the process). I use a special program from Dynojet to develop our maps, which allows us to ramp a pre-programmed load at specific throttle positions. This 'controlled load/acceleration rate' helps keep engine heat/ coolant temp etc. more consistent than any type of cell by cell tuning and makes for a much better starting point for track (lambda sensor) tuning. I can also produce these maps and e-mail them to my customers anywhere in the world (no shipping/hassle required), and outrun their 'fresh dyno tune' on a stock engine using our parts 9 times out of 10, if they follow the instructions in our private owners group. See this FAQ for more info:http://www.brocksperformance.com/absolutefm/?f=234

We will crack the ECU to increase peak RPM (a little) - very few bikes need much, if any more than 400-500 RPM. We will remove speed limiters and VERY RARELY adjust ignition timing (only on a couple of Kaws, it's a 100% waste of time on Suzuki's). Anyone who thinks ignition timing adjustments need to be made on most modern sportbikes are either A: sorely misled B: Using the wrong fuel for their application C: using Nitrous Oxide and need to RETARD their timing.

We leave ECU tuning to the 'at home tuners and pro's' because the chances of them doing more harm than good is SO GREAT (detonation, pre-ignition, blown head gaskets, dropped valves, broken valve springs, damaged ring lands, scuffed pistons, scuffed bearings, broken rods, bearing failure -- LOTS of BEARING FAILURE >see: timing adjustments leading to excessive cylinder pressure<... the list goes on and on. Oh yea, your bike slows down one day and the power never returns... it's ok, it's just A LITTLE hurt, nothing replacing a slightly damaged ring land wont cure.)

We don't have enough phone lines or people to keep up with the problems - especially when the 'advantages' aren't worth perusing compared to our 'Brock set-up" using our products and knowledge which are designed to last as long as your OEM items.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Brock

So is this Flash also a poor Hack which is what I believe you are coming up with ??? My answer is Yep same shit different approach. Results in the AFR line are accomplished both ways. PCV Maps still rule the track. Burn't pistons in the flashes starting to arise(timing ?), more soon to be told, time tells all. But yes as men we all step forward to find the magic power pill that Mr Kawi denied us. Cost can be high if we were denied nothing. Yet, we must try. It's Man's way.

Hub I hope you keep up with your study. Great things may come from proving exactly that. Remember in first Gen ZX14s mechanical advance of 4 degrees was the ticket or was it ??? After study, the ECU grabbed the out of sink and did the timing kick back to safe mode,,,or as you put it limp, slower than what we had. So, Can we prove the ECU hack does the same ? If so you have a Huge piece of the puzzle. Usable info.

The better question that's fast arising is, Is the hack inside the ECU better than the Hack after the ECU ?

So back to WATT,,, Because I now know,, I now know less than I did before I started. Realy enjoyed the learning curve even though the results of the study yielded the same End. Sorry I have nothing to add as believe for now there is nothing,,, 4 now ? Keep digging show us the way. Cheers

I don't see the flash as something hokey at all.It's very programmable...the ECU...and it's supposed to be that way...Kawa knows what they're doing.Kawasaki set em up as they are...for safety's sake of the rider.They didn't lock anyone out of the ECU.This flashing craze is not even going full guns yet.These motors have so much potential...and the systems.If I might add this....Kawasaki is using the public...you guys...as the test beds for their new stuff.We're the R&D'rs.There is a particular 'flash' for each particular bike and conditions.No two bikes are the same...so every flash is going to produce something different.Some guys will go for full on power...others...to make adjustments to the rideability and touring.It isn't so simple as changing a few things here and there...and there obviously IS a pattern mathematically for getting results.You get that down...you're rollin.

NOBODY has this formula down yet(completely)...because no two bikes are riding(running)the same.They can't.So you keep tweaking and learning.Brock and others have tried to 'commercialize' this formula...and used THEIR pipes to test it...but it doesn't fit every rider....there ARE some that have made more power and torque than Brock/Guhl.Some are right here...on this forum.I looked way back when Brock/Guhl were putting out their numbers...they weren't running stock fuel...stock oil....stock stuff like that.And some here have surpassed already Brock's results with full stock config(with the exception of adding exhaust).

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/24/2013 @ 7:49 PM *

Kawa knows what they're doing.Kawasaki set em up as they are...They didn't lock anyone out of the ECU.

Agreed Grn, Kawi does know what they are doing, that is a given. They didn't lock anyone out ??? Grn they did not give us a key into their ECU for all to see. They gave us Nothing, hackers find ways in. From there programs are built by them to Manipulate the #'s to do what we the user want. Both ways are very capable of making the same AFR line. Both are tools only with a means to a end. Don't misunderstand I love and use them both. This is still one of my Favorite pass times.

No two bikes are the same...so every flash is going to produce something different.Some guys will go for full on power...others...to make adjustments to the rideability and touring. It isn't so simple as changing a few things here and there...and there obviously IS a pattern mathematically for getting results.You get that down...you're rollin.
NOBODY has this formula down yet(completely)...because no two bikes are riding(running)the same

Exactly, I have made many flashes to suit different riders. But that's not what Hub's looking for here. He wants the same as I want and it's "What we can't see". If Kawi gave us their ECU and made it programmable using their exact software that would be a wow. I'm sorry Grn but I doubt Kawi is ever going to give up all her secrets. If they do, From that point no contest. For now we work with what we have. Yes it will do all we need it to do, but there is so much more. Currently we are only scratching the surface. Hub knows it or he would not be rolling in these tests. Always lots to learn open mind very important.

We're not seeing what we want because the tool to communicate with the ECU is incomplete.

I'm still waiting for KTRC access. Justin, or someone else, will develop it eventually.

Tick tock.

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"Grn they did not give us a key"..they didn't need to...they purposely left it accessible...that's kinda what I meant.Hell..they can't warranty an engine that's been mad tweaked to rip shit up.So they're watching...waiting...seeing what these crazy bikers do with their ca-razy motors.Then incorperating the 'changes' into their upcoming models.They see already...folks don't really care for the "1" KTRC default...you watch...that'll be changed in a year or so.And the 'safety' mode?That'll be gone also...IMO. They HAVE to put something in there to quiet the beast...they don't know who's riding their monsters...so they're playing it safe...mechanically...I think this motor is VERY capable of holding aggressive flashes no prob.Their zx14 gen 1's supplied the needed data to upgrade safely.I do believe they're way ahead of us end users.....WAY.

I mean..this bike(IMO) is primarily a street cruiser/ripper.NOT a 1000.It shines in it's own niche...dragging.But streetability is second to none...no one can touch the rideability of this bike...that's my feelings on her.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/25/2013 @ 4:19 AM *

Of course you can be totally correct on your ideas about it...yes.I think Kawi is listening intently to what's happening in the zx14R world...Look what they did with the 10R.And the 14R?They changed several hot topic points because they were listening.They apparently right now aren't too worried about blowing up motors...I've not heard of any yet.
I didn't know Kawasaki locked out the customer from the ECU...that's new to me.I mean...stock config...yes...and no way for the user to 'go in' and switch things...that seems normal to me?But with your software..you can easily access it right?(which they knew would happen)I think the flashing deal is most excellent...you guys doing this...Kawasaki's watching...reading....designing.They can't just take a superbike and sell it the masses unhindered.Even though they probably would like to;)This 14R is badass...top of the line.They know it...we know it.Keep tweaking this bird....there's SO much there;)Hell..if I felt confident about things...I'd get that software also...sounds awesome to me.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/25/2013 @ 12:04 PM *

Hub you have made your points is this discussion but I am still at a loss to understand where you are going with this.

How much did you pick up on my FI rants? Did they come thru fuition? Are those 3amigo steps in the absolute? Yes. Did I mention about being out of the square wave and you set the tone to limp out of spec to save engine like you mention the advancer being out of spec 4 degrees? Did I rant about how I forgot about basic magnetic fields and how many waves there are found so far but we use the square wave? Did you follow how I put two and two together as one being in analog the other in digital and made example of a resistor is an apple to a rheostat is like the orange?

Examples like that which are now seen as short simple steps inside the computer, yes? I mean, real basic. This is now laying out the moves as I step back and watch the math it takes to go hex-to-bi, which are now in letters. The ECU can use a whole set of combos of letters and numbers dissected into computer language. In other words, I'll soon make it short and simple [soon] in my mind. How to watch the Honda vs. ECU wars and why the tech is more basic in nature.

What is your goal in the End ?

To decipher the map numbers and what they rep? Why the large gap and uneven gap between numbers? Why those numbers are in octi, or hex, or decimal say? There is a formula to the engine management, not that I'll find it, but try to understand what I'm reading if it takes me there?

Is the outcome more understanding of the Tech ? Once you have this knowledge will it be useful, Is this knowledge something that can be used in any way ? Or simply the Need to know ?

Good questions. Probably all of the above. Yes, probably the main one would be who blew the chain of command inside the ECU? Why was there a stumble at the 3,200rpm range in ninja's ECU? Would a flash reset things or are we looking at a hard part down inside the black box?

Below are just some of the steps taken inside. I was on the right track when I felt the throttle body parts in hand being the analog signal. I simply used a single resistor being one measurement is also the same as saying digital as being one.

Low and behold, here are the parts that say, 'I take the analog signal IN, digest the data, math it to a digital, send it back OUT in analog:

Program storage and control
8 analog inputs (multiplexed)
Input sample and hold
Analog to digital converter (ADC)
Arithmetic processor
Digital to analog converter (DAC)
Digital signal processor
Output sample and hold
8 analog outputs (multiplexed)

See for me, the steps come alive with 'sample and hold' as the real flow appears to unfold. As the steps move along, I left out a lot and it's too complex if you saw the diagram with 8 bits here, 16 bits there, 24 bits coming out of the hard parts and their processing moves flowing in many directions. I just copied some of the verbal abstract of the hard parts used. I knew analog in, covert to digital, recheck the math, then from digital back out in analog. I think I was close enough to understand something happening inside just by looking up two definitions: you have no idea how it all clicked together in [my own] concepts after that. We still land on the same page, but my whack took a different road to get there.

For the 3amigos you have a root system for each one to diagnose so as to eliminate the other 2.
Same goes for FI. You have 3 chain links that make a boat anchor ready to toss overboard and that is crank/cam/ECU: one of them no longer signals in analog or digital. Short and sweet, right? Look how long it took me to get there and explain it to myself after the long and drawn out steps I post. I more explain the steps than tell you the answer. The steps back up one type of guess at the problem, but hindsight shows the way. It's the concept of the steps and how it could work in the absolute. So if I know the steps in the ECU, the concepts show their own root system. I've come full circle with the computer bike, meaning, the parts to Fu/Sp/Com, the parts to FI and the 3 senders [cr/cam/ECU], and now for the 3rd part of the computer bike...

... Which is ECU and its 3 I/O theories. So far, I is analog, O is analog. My abstract has to say I/n/O, n being the [unknown] binary number used? There might be something to learn [if] the cell numbers begin to show themselves somehow thru this book? Fat chance but that's the goal. If nothing else, I lifted the hood of the ECU, watched the moving parts inside like I can an engine and their 4 moving steps.

Oh greenie, I hear what you're saying, but Kawi already has THE setup for the 600/1000's. It's called a racing 'kit-ECU.' It has lots of programs like, pit speeds limiters, gear position formula changes for sprockets, a fuel map, etc. So there are some factory ECU's in racing trim that Kawi and Yam [Y-kit] had available for years. Remember when the US gov standardized the [on board diagnostic] plug jack? Most US made cars use the same OBD platform in the generic. Bikes should have the same OBD setup too.

Also, I'm trying to find out what that 'filter' page is all about? Generically it should explain the same abstract in the basics of FI, yes? I've tried to find the generic for 'filtering' and this gets way to complicated to follow, but the concept is easy to see why it's used/needed. So until Wooly comes up with the basics of how to filter, what to radio click and what not, plus what numbers to plug in, that page is mute at the moment. I'll learn the hard way like I have been doing all along. If I schooled myself in FI, I'll do the same in ECU speak. It's just a matter of learning things like sifting thru the hard parts and their flow functions: one step at a time.

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See, privy is describing microcode? CMOS? other abstract that makes no sense to me. I am looking for the basics like fu/sp/com. So the ECU has to have those type elements to comprehend what is going on step wise, yes? This takes a lot of computations to covert this code to binary codespeak.

This is where I would cause the vacuum to send analog thru the ohm meter. That was a Harley style VOES (voltage operating electronic switch) sensor. The numbers varied due to the speed of the suction I created. Now that I understand the decimal points thru the ohm meter, put the two conversions together [that can be made]...

Octal to Binary Converting
Decimal To Binary Conversion

... I have to think in octal for the fuel, decimal for ignition. How could I explain to privy, 'show me the first step,' if I already figured out the penultimate number by myself? I already answered my own question. As for the Wooly layout of the fuel and ign maps being in octal and decimal respectively, how could I explain to privy, 'show me the conversions?' Again, laying the book down, I had to search for a definition of a few words and now come away with all sorts of binary conversions I can match with each cell. For those that want to follow along...http://www.binaryhexconverter.com

So fuel uses 3 digits that can; if I'm on my own road; not the books; but by my understanding of it; a 576 converts to 1100 in octal. If I pull up the ign map, plug in a wild number like 28.444444 in decimal, the numbers convert to bi as 00011100.

Do you see a dilemma between the octal map and the decimal map? How could privy point that abstract out to me as far as baby steps to the math calc. I am seeing two different cells showing this sort of abstract I'm formulating. It's not that priv was not privy to looking at a map and its cells. I now see a map, I know how to read it in octi or deci if not hex. How could priv point that out to me? He was way ahead of the curve. Are we seeing my abstract to it?

Do you see what I see yet? Octi and deci on one side of the monitor, bi on the other side? That's how I look at maps now. Bi their characters and decimal points. Are we on the first page of chapter 'Flash Me 101' of the thread's title?

So if I can decipher or say I want to write code and for sure this is not how you write code the way to book explains it, but I am going to show you how the decimal can be written in voltage if I say 3.68v = 00000011 in binary. So if I could read a strip of binary code, again, how could privy be on the same road as I, if another key element is that basic piece to the puzzle is 'binary conversion.' If you see 14.7 used [in a cell] like on the video Romes sent in, you can tell how the binary is being used if numbers correlate numbers.

Do the basics begin to make sense yet? This book talks about ROM, RAM, EPROM, but that is chapters ahead. I'll know who does what and how much and all that flashing the PROM (once) and the EPROM that needs that infrared to become flash-able (again) and again. Reading the kit-ECU intro, it said the ECU was flashable 65,000 times: is its life expectancy.

Romes, when you said that bin was corrupt, won't start the bike, can you see the flashed maps? If we opened the ign map, are all the cells in decimal? If we open the fuel maps, do we have all numbers in octal form? Did the ign maps switch to octi when they need to be set in deci. See how I can play out the map read already? I'm sure that's not how to diagnose a corrupt bin, I'm just using those basic steps as to how to look at a map on the monitor side, you now know the binary side.

Make sense or the run-thru-rant of it?

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You got it with the binary conversion Hub. There be the key. All along right up front. Once the conversion factor is understood, the relation of the three amigos takes care of itself. Imho. Seems to fall into place once that conversion and ITS effect is noted and realized across that range of interrelation. We can't forget the time constant hub. That binary code conversion is occurring up and down the range and under load the conversion is WOT? Anticipation mode. :)

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Program storage AND CONTROL
input sample and HOLD
output sample and HOLD

Digital signal processor - THIS IS THE KEY TO SPEED OF PROCESSING POWER, ie:speed of data crunch.

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INDEED!

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http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/worksheets/k_map.html By the time I'm finished reading these books I'll know how to build and program a digital clock to work. One day a Wooly site should be looking like Megasquirt's website. That filter page has me stumped as well as the fuel trim.

Whoever wrote that program for Wooly needs to give up more info as to what that filter does. No abstract to help explain the product better. Like I said, there is formula for every move on earth so I'm on a mission to learn what is not coming forward.

Pg 16-89 shows the abstract of a square wave length ___[ ]_________[ ]____[ ]___[]___[ ]______]. So imagine if your bi numbers filled the lines and brackets. An 8-bit code number represents how many zeros make up the bit, how many 1's make the number/letter/icon/etc.

So there are 4-8-16 bits that make up the code. When you see the dash pod receive their individual info, the numbers can be expressed as placing the 0's on the line and the 1's inside the brackets, or in this case, one dash line showing the square wave is to place the 1's and 0's in their perspective places. Imagine having an 8-bit code read 0100 1110 (78).

__]_0_[1]__00__[111]_0_[_ would read those 8 bits of code to be in a square wave type of action of zeros and ones. This takes (Time) filling a bunch of 0's and 1's to move as they do. And the whole deal is to move those bits faster down the chain. I get it. The map seems to match the linear move of the engine and how rpm moves in linear. So a wave like a beach wave is linear up, peaks, then down is the linear line as if looking in a mirror. Did you see how linear the move was of the real time yellow dot that followed the map; in the video above? That is what you are playing with is that linear curve.

And were was that yellow dot positioned at? Scroll up. It is positioned where? And where is the dot on the 3-D Wooly map located? At an X (cross point) like any 3-D map; you move the arrow keys. So the yellow dot is in the middle of the lines crossing. I see it. That means, my formula works as if it is stepping to the next move. How that ball tumbles from one cell to the next cell moves like it's moving in basic Karnaugh steps. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/worksheets/k_map.html

So basically, I am being skilled in how to make a swiss WATTch that is way more accurate than the alps can do it to it.

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