I must qualify this vote however.If the mod is something that is going to benefit the consumer,and benefit a common performance "problem"-like removing flies or something similar,an "easy fix" for a recurring issue-I would offer it freely-to benefit my fellow riders and save them money from possible damage issues.I could always try to sell it to someone "other" than my forum members however.Idealistic-yes,I know-but that's what I would do.Something like a remap-which would always be different for each bike,and not just stamped out-a real change of performance-I would offer it for sale to my fellow forum members-ONLY if it was PROVEN to work as presented.Not some known BS deal that I concocted.Saying that,there could always be the exception-some situation where it DID NOT PERFORM as stated- full rectifying of the situation would be in order-ONLY if the two parties agreed beforehand that this is how it would be rectified.If it was a "giveaway" type situation,the receiving party would need to understand that the "giveaway" "mod" was being used solely at the recipient's risk.Any "mod" that was proven to work to prevent damage(or excessive wear) over an existing concurrent "problem"-I would offer it freely.For example...If I knew from personal experience that installing "X" washer into "Y" situation-and having that solve completely and without failure the problem that was a continuous issue for my fellow members-I would freely offer that to them.Like installing m-10 washers onto the left side engine valve cover bolts.It works.No taking it to a dealer and having them tell you-"you need a new gasket"-and spending X amount of bucks when it would be completely unnecessary.Something along those lines.If I knew Brand Z was causing problems,and I could cure it with X-I would offer it freely to my forum members.If I could sell it on the side-I would do that as well.There's nothing wrong with charging for an enhancement mod IMO.But a safety issue or wear issue-that's different to me.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 12/27/2009 @ 9:29 PM *

I'm in between choice 1 and 2. If it's as simple as a few washers or a resistor, I'd just offer it free. If you actually have to build something, then I would make a few and see how it sells. This must be the thing you had the engineer in on, hey? If so, it must be fairly complex.

You could always sell the patent to a manufacturer at a later time. Might as well see what kind of profit you can make on your own first, then look for a buyer of the patent.

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I read someone said he had his tre on for the last 2 years. It means the bike runs with a code. Mine flashes no code. Shifts like gang busters is what you feel. Plus the fuel bump is a freebie. I have a worn tire ready for a dyno pull running the bike in both stock mode and 'shift select mode' call it.

If that fuel bump is too rich, it could burn out the cats if anything is going to go belly up. So yes, blue, you bring up a good point I pay more in liability insurance than what I can sell. That also means I hire a patent lawyer, see if there is anything here. Maybe hire lawyer that knows copyright so I have my rear end covered I let the cat out of the bag.

I would need a Busa to see if this works the same which I think it will. I can keep adding bikes that use the right telemetry and this can be applied to more than just the 14. Does that help any, what potential this might have? Figure a tre works on other bikes, why can't this?

Rook, how bout you let me borrow your Busa for a few minutes. See if I walked the practical event times 2busa.

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HMmmmmm. HM. 1000 miles. No wires cut or tapped. What if it blows up?

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Can't blow up. It's like saying the tre will blow up the bike. It's not like that at all. It's called more I run you linears down with your shitty running PC and I have the ultimate goods on the fuel trim...

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Well Hub-I'm hopin ya can get this thing goin-would be a real nice gift for yourself.Honestly-hope it works out!

-would be a real nice gift for yourself.Honestly-hope it works out!

Thanks, blue. I read that and it made me think, I'm Otto and gift the 4-Stroke just for me? Polio vaccine and stab myself only? Catch 22 my ohm read greed? Gift to you and someone will profit I feel like my ass is going to get reamed, I didn't listen to my b-in-law and dyno buddy.

Penny wise, I do not want a dime from this hack. I feel it is the same kind of situation about the tre banging on freebie at the backup door. This is more of a racing trick you let no one in on. So, in that perspective, you glide right through tech. Anyone can recognize the 6 or the N locked in code.

Clean 'dash for the cash.' Cheat INN fool data I am. Can't pull the race off of my face.

If you ask me, this is a classic, "field fix." If Kawi is listening, they need one of the big boys from Japan to come ride this bike. No kidding! I'm thinking how this hack could move that Connie between gears and that rear pumpkin you'd be looking back to see if it was still attached. WOW is all I can say. I'm Connie bound next round.

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Well-you SHOULD make some money from it.Sounds like it will be a nice mod for the shifting quality of our 14's.I would probably buy one-IF it worked 100% and caused no disruption to any of my electricals(dash,codes).And of course-safe for the trans and such.I'll tell ya right now-if this thing of yours caused the bike to shift like the Busa-I'd buy one.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 12/29/2009 @ 10:58 PM *

Hub, I voted for "FREE" but I just like free
My advise would be to immediately copywright or start a patent on your idea. You don't have to make the choice right now as to whether it is something you want to market. The thing is, you would have control over who uses it and how it is used. If someone else started marketing something you gave them, and believe me they will, you'd be really pissed. Most people can't resist Gold.
When you're protected from rip offs, you can continue R&D without being secretive. If you do decide it is worth marketing you'll have time to "fine tune" it. Reliability is a valuable design feature, and with machines reliability can only be proven with mileage. If you decide to offer it to the "worthy," you know, people like me(LOL) then you would still have control to make sure someone else doesn't market it. I'm sure you could find volunteers in this group to give it mileage and hence credibility. A simple non-disclosure and no-liability agreement would CYA.

Well you know you have us all curious...

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 1/1/2010 @ 12:22 PM *

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It can be very costly to get damages for copyright/patent violation. If a small company is the offender, the most that usually happens is they get an injunction stopping them from producing the item that they do not own the patent for. A guy I knew owned the patent for fish neckties that were popular back in the 80s. He never got a dime from anyone that he caught copying his invention.

If a huge corporation copied you and you caught them, then you would probably get a huge settlement to avoid having it go to court.

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Let me tease you about yesterday's test, tell you about a preliminary shakedown. I made a 32.6 mile loop under stock mode, topped off approximately 5 pounds of gas, then took the same loop a second time around. Funny, but I ran out of gas right where the filler meets the slosh. Using the filler neck as a level, I topped the gas off just enough to touch the ring of the bottom part of the filler neck.

I've aborted so many fuel mileage runs, I figure the holiday traffic would be light. Believe me, this is not scientific enough to pass the honey mustard, but what the heck, I have no other gauge. So, with my trusty ebay scale I bought for shipping my personal bike crap out of the garage, I figure I'd weigh gas as I pour the liquid up to the filler neck's baseline.

Coming back from the 2nd loop, I seemed to matched what I poured in the tank first time. The same 5 pounds practically licked the base part of that filler neck. I then bumped the bike on the center stand to watch the sloshing. She is banging at that base. I'd say that is close enough, then I step back and wonder.

I'm now studying the tune. The shifting is sublime. We have something I can only describe as a different tone to the bike. First off, this thing hits the G-spot as far as 'smoothing' goes. The subtle flat spot is gone. That low rpm belly lean more like, blends in with the flies out.

And when I say the lag part, that is what I cannot say with certainty what is happening ignition wise. If you see the list I've created so far, it can't be fuel if I am banging the fuel rim's ring. It has to be ignition. I changed nothing compression wise. I would have to conclude I am hitting the hard set or the digital read of a different map. Digital hums different from analog. That tone changes, say if you hit the locked-6. It is what you feel different in tone, if you run one of the tre-type units.

Here is the clunkers for cash being that liability, that if this unit burns out your cat like the manual says, you are not going to be a happy camper. When I came back from this last run, I have the fan running when I key the bike up to write down the same mileage. Well, matched meaning, because the first time I key'd for the initial mileage number, the fan did not come one. This time it raised a red flag; for me even using this hack myself. See, I've hit enough toggles in that timing window to see the ignition lock to full advance no matter the code set. She cools down when there is enough wind pushing on that radiator to cool it down.

More R&D will be going on today. I will swap the ignition tone wheels. See if the heat moves any with the bike using more degrees. I'll start out with 2° just for grins. What did I learn today is that Someone's dyno numbers match 177/177hp, meaning ~ stock/tre changes. And me with pouring practically the same amount meaning, 5/5pounds ~ gained nothing/lost nothing.

If I keep this setting, then I have to burn out something before I would attempt to release this hack to anyone. It may take months for something to happen to the bike, like burn up the cats. Being this is my first attempt to study this hack fuel wise, I need to take the same loop with the tre hacks in play. If they show the same fuel/pounds matching results, that is one thing. But, the fan coming on with the hack on? I've never heard the 6/N cause problems with say anyone with a tre set on, oh say, since installing one on an '06, for example. That is enough R&D time already in the books > About any damage occurring if the fan comes on. I would assume this hack would act the same way and run as safe in a code like setting.

Tomorrow, I am going to listen for detonation noise using the different ignition setting. It will be an interesting (longer) loop. The way I see it, the N/6 hacks, sort of match in a lot of ways of the hack I've discovered. What I have found on my hack is more a plush shift apply. It's hard to decipher how close the tones are if you do not sit on top of the bike and feel that tone change within seconds of each other.

Where does that leave you in all this? Call it slow R&D. Wait and see.

He never got a dime from anyone that he caught copying his invention.

Smokey Yunick invented the deep reach spark plug still used today. Champion paid him a penny for each plug sold in royalty fees. Other things like the air cleaners Purolator built; you think Smokey got anything like credit or paid a royalty for perfecting the filter used today? Nope. He was ripped off plenty. Smokey, taught me well is one reason why I hesitate saying anything more.

* Last updated by: Hub on 1/2/2010 @ 8:27 AM *

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Rook has a good point. But it's really only big business concerns you need to protect against anyway. Some small timer using your idea will not steal a whole market. It's the damn Chinese who will rip you off. And they will do it with a smile on their face and their middle finger extended.
I know the brothers who hold/held the patent on the air frame water bed. They had to go to court because of infringement. I think ultimately they "won" their case and got a settlement of $4.95 or a little more. "Damages" have a lot to do with development and marketing. You can't just sit on a patent, you have to develop a product, or at least develop a "Turn Key" concept. Then you can sell the rights or market and sell the product. One thing for sure...the more finished the product, the more it's worth. Yes, you can gain nothing by having a patent, but you surely have nothing to gain by not having one.
I think it's smart to keep it on the QT.

* Last updated by: Sharkey on 1/2/2010 @ 3:41 PM *

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...the more finished the product, the more it's worth.

I think it's smart to keep it on the QT.

I am already thinking of a mold for a finished product, but... "I think it's smart I keep it on the QT" if you ask me.

WELL

Wezza outta toy let pay peer.

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Call this the, "teaser thread." I ran that hack to my buddy's shop to return a wire harness he let me borrow. I told him the race harness was an abort, being the 8 vs. 4 injector banks were going to code me. He then mentions he has spare 8 point throttle bodies so we keep going was the plan.

I then compressed the body throats onto some poster paper he had around. Folded that imprint into a thick booklet. I'll get back to that booklet later. Yeah, I figured the head spread of 350 more cc's would send the ports out farther than a 1000 head. Sure enough, I line up the one port to paper. Sited down the other end and there I see about a 1/3 of the port extended past the 1000's last impression crush mark of it's port. Therefore one more abort. But then let me get back to injectors.

As I explained to my contact about the 4 vs. 8 injectors, I would return the harnesses and ECU's to the rightful owner, here is part of it. This was an expensive wire harness still in the factory bag I never used. I brought the conversation around to pay for dyno tuning. I needed to find out about this tranny hack and fuel trim remapping. I at least wanted to have those settings answered up to this stage in development.

My ride over there was specifically to make the dyno time appointment. Without hesitation, he says to me with a wave of the hand pointing to the dyno, "You take your bike and dyno it. It's easy." I about dropped to the ground. ME??? I might blow up my bike if I tune the thing!

WOW! I'm now in shock. I tell him I have no experience with these DJ dyno's. Getting excited, I immediately ask, 'What kind of instructions comes with the dyno?' That's when we walk over to the dyno area ;he hands me this thick stack of papers about an inch thick. I stick those in my jacket to school up at home. Anyway, when I walked up to that dark corner where dyno lays dormant, I imagined that front wheel of said mule [number 2] is in position, cranked into that jaw, tie-downs locking down the rear. Better stand clear.

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No smoke up your ass is. No need to adjust your glass is.
[Backup one word and add it or you are lost is the cause IS]
Ear comes the tire rub bin friction flub been. Reading up to suck it up 4 initial pulls. One out of the hat is a flat out hack attack that tre. Limb beer jack kit UP is PaZ U up pit tea. And crumb pits the numb beers, office ear crump key. Line pie is the better wave hose up the grid. I say a buckiss among us is a bucka line = $4.00'say is the bet. Me!

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Okay-don't know what I'm lookin at there.Or what you are actually saying Hub.This is a "shifting" mod?Something to minimize that pesky thunk into all gears?Notchyness Eliminator?

Something to minimize that pesky thunk into all gears? If you mean your gearbox should shift cleaner/smoother/effortlessly? It sickens makes me thinks I have to run this bike in pesky stock mode like you say, blue. When I rode over to return the wire harness the other day, I had the de-toejammer plugged in; things ran sweet there and back. It will spoil you.

I'm chasing fuel trim, not shift apply. WATT happened is that the two cannot be separated. You get the one with the other. I'm totally redesigning the product to bring the initial cost down is one. If the curves of said unit I carve out become as complex as the part I showed them to duplicate, well, I don't really want to think about it.

The simple is now the complex: Imagine the tune reflects both the running with the shifting and you cannot run the one alone. Which is a shame.

I am doing Kawi's R&D; they should have squared this bike away the way I have this bike setup shift wise alone. I shake my helmet in disbelief I WOThis bike now. The dyno awaits.

* Last updated by: Hub on 1/14/2010 @ 5:30 PM *

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Sounds like yer gettin it dialed in Hub.I can say that at certain RPMs and certain "conditions",she will shift very slick and sweet.Usually when shifting with a higher RPM amount-either up or down(shifting).Without clutch.But I've gotta be runnin agressive to have her shift like that.And I never use the clutch when shifting up or down at higher RPMs.Just "slight"fuel cut,that does the trick.Same as a quickshifter I'm guessing-but their's cut ignition,not fuel.It's the load on the trans is what makes the shift difference(at least that's what I'm guessing).What do I know?But you seem to have it almost ready-If this deal works-count me in.But it HAS to work every time,without fail or adjustment.And not interfere with any of my other settings(fuel map,electrics).Ka Pish? I'm curious to know how the new 10r is shifting.It was supposed to be "reworked" by Kawi to produce a very noticeable improvement in shift quality.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 1/14/2010 @ 8:36 PM *

But it HAS to work every time,without fail or adjustment. Works every time without fail. Never dials the shift out of adjustment. Every ride on the bike is a test run. Again, same day I returned the harness was the last time I rode it. I left the setting alone to see what it does with a cold engine and no warm up. You know how it's hard to move to 2nd with new semi-thick oil in it? This bike shifts as if [no oil to drag in] you hardly touch the foot lever, she clicks in effortlessly. A night and day difference as if you be going night and day at it is one with a condom, the other hours, without.

This 'project fuel injection' has me as obsessed as Elvis with his peanut butter and banana sandwiches locking his ass up with that protein. I'm so stubborn I let nothing else seep into my... Eat and sleep the project say. The trans hack is old hat. I kept on adding more wires and junk tonight... The old lady comes out to the garage, tells me she is here to torment me. Hands me a nut filled See's candy she can't have [nuts]. She starts ragging on me about there being more on the bike now than a stock one. Told me to get another 14 and just ride it with the plastic on.

Anyway, I moved on to another variable I wanted to try. The thought came to me who knows when? Things just tumble or more scramble thoughts between the hack the harness, and the tune I am locked out of. A bit ago, I came back in from the garage with the wire combo finally finished. Too late for a road test. I walk past her to wash up and she says, "Did ya have fun?"

I don't know if you can have fun crimping a few wires together. I want to see results walking the practical idea I have. What I wired, was to find out if I could improve the tune any? I sure do not want to upset the shifting. I do not think, nor do I see how you can get it [the shfit] any better than where it is now. It's that dialed, that butter smooth.

This hack has a completely different approach to it. I have 3 variables to eliminate right off the bat. 2 of the variables can be verified on test around the block. The third one calls for a more elaborate approach to the wiring. If one of the 2 hacks work out, I do not need the 3rd attempt, being one of the 2 happened to be it.

Both times I turned the key on to see if the bike set a code with either hack, she did not flash an, "FI," which I expected not to for one hack at least. I had no clue what the other would do? I took the more basic walk in the practical steps to try it again someplace else. I thought of the brain storm... ... I figured I would change nothing.

Starting the bike up would be a different scenario so I could be wrong, Huston, we have code. At this stage of the hack, it looks promising and I have no clue what will happen or if I have the correct wire(s) chosen. I'm more hit and miss chasing wiring. Electrics is not my best subject. If this is how you have to change jets in the FI world, so be it. I'm beginning to learn this is what it might take and it's not fun for me!

I'll know in about 12/14 hours from now what kind of tone of a tune I can get out of her. Stay tuned for the new raw data.

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So if I'm getting this correctly,the shiftability is NOT connected to any electrical "hacks".It's a separate animal.You're trying to see if it can be induced with an electrical hack?If she's shifting as you say-why change it?Perhaps I misread.You DID create a better shifting trans by hacking some wiring processes?Sounds intriguing.If you've accomplished what it appears to be-you my friend are gonna be quite well off in a short time.This may put FactoryPro on their ears with their shift star kits!You may be giving the quickshifter manufacturers a run for their money as well.Wouldn't THAT be something!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 1/15/2010 @ 2:53 AM *

Dude,Hub you have me going nuts! I'm watching this page all the time for updates! I hope it works out for you and for us!!!

(I wonder if anyone else tried my switchable TRE. There is no doubt it works and you can always turn it back to stock to see how much it suck without the TRE.)

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BLUE07 Says: So if I'm getting this correctly,the shiftability is NOT connected to any electrical "hacks".It's a separate animal.You're trying to see if it can be induced with an electrical hack?

Technically, yes and no. It's so complicated, I can't figure out this hack I found by accident. I'm somewhat going in a deeper and different direction as we speak. Remember the 02 trick? I'm after the tuning pings. I'm sorta done with the shift hack. I am on to a whole different deal, and that is to expand the product line you might say.

If she's shifting as you say-why change it?

Because if I change the tune, the trans shift follows. I cannot separate the two unless what I think could loophole the two is to have Ridge's software package to readjust what maps are available to change the trans. If I have Ridge's setup, I believe you can watch the maps run in real time? If so, I hack the selected code, read how that changes from stock... That would be the only reason for me to buy Ridge's software is to see the changes. One reason why I am anxious to have the kit-ECU up and running is to explore the value changes. Besides, they [aftermarket] have nothing to worry about. In fact, I'd like to try that star on top of the hack. WOW! I can imagine the trans... "Has left the building!' 'The trans ass left the building..." You'd think it was an automatic. Interesting enough, I did think of the star kit as a compliment to the hack. But without the roller kit... ??? I think the quickshifter would need to have a high speed camera on it or just slow-mo the two, watch that giant millisecond spank the stock setting. Once again, this is another "Comp," = Compliments of the hack.
______________________________________________________________________________________________

JasonB writes: Dude,Hub you have me going nuts! I'm watching this page all the time for updates! I hope it works out for you and for us!!!

Check the top left corner of this post. It's working "BEE ITCH INN" for me. It is the "Us Is" that are missing out. Talk to the factory.

(I wonder if anyone else tried my switchable TRE. There is no doubt it works and you can always turn it back to stock to see how much it suck without the TRE.)

Oh, I have your switchable tre'z is matches or over rides the two GEEpee settings is it pisses all over them! Something like,
"the smooth of the N and the grunt of the (6)," I can tell you, are 3-Combined variables all wrapped up in one big sweet ride! Kind of like the preset you cannot get away from. WAAAAAaaaaaaaa!!!

RidgeRacer, HER WEE!

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I'm almost ready to head out and toggle test this puppy. I'll have something later on... Way later.

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Here are the failure/success rates of this test loop:

It did not take as long as I expected. Test one was the modified unit and that goes back to the drawing board as plan two will be ready for tomorrow's short run for doughnuts.

A few miles later, I pulled over, set the next hack with the unit and one more item in-line. Usually when I stop and idle, I am under a 1000rpm. This new hack, jumped the idle up another 100rpm. I had adjustments going on the fly and it seems like the other hack of the same map or buzz was being used. It also shed light that the trans was back to stock clunking mode.

The test-loop answered a few questions. No dash code was present was one. The other, was the assembled unit being inoperable. The R&D continues.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62B7zenFr2A

Here, you can punch on a time waster of a video, by yours truly. There was a lot of crap on the road where I lost and caught the front end. It was tiny. Anyway, I have 3 [idle] tones on the video. Anytime you see me pull over, I am telling the camera what hack I am triggering.

If you would like to follow along, I will point out the data I needed to listen to. And because it's raining, I cannot tone off that wall with 3 unique tones. I'm sitting on that bike all the time testing as you see. Each time out, I found the wall tone to be quite different in note. The wall slice is the, Transetting call it.

Once this weather front clears, I will begin to collect 3 exhaust notes a certain way. Then string them together. I'll be in the same gear, same rpm. The latest hack is very young in testing. My primitive way of exploring has just begun with the 3rd hack, switch feelsmooth and promising.

Bore you to death for about 9 minutes of you waiting for the thaw to happen. I'll try to give you the highlights of the video so you can see and hear the difference. There will be 3 idles you might get an ear tuned to. That is what I hear as the video brings out their 'tighter lop.' Because the foot cam was not used, I covered the lever with foot in the way. Plus, the mic was on an extension cord, worked well, but was on too tense a setting. I'll make an echo run is a tunnel somewhere with a few hacks. The mic caught too much wind to catch an exhaust note I had it setup for.
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Here is the rundown for this video in seconds. It is more you listen on that time for the tone change or there about = Give or take a second:

0:15 ~ You will hear 2nd gear clunk with the stock mode. Late in the video, the hack will eliminate that snatch.
2:22 ~ This the stock idle setting. String together 3 interesting idle settings later.
4:00 ~ New hack idle seems higher in rpm > String will tell at a slow-mo lop.
4:18 ~ This is where I missed 5th or 4th gear with a bang in neutral. I was not happy and cut out a lot. But notice the 3rd tone, because this is THE HIT for the rest of the vid.
5:48 ~ Here I where I need to bang a note off a wall or a 1/4th of a tunnel is more like it. Sound different?
6:13 ~ There is air sucking lift on the downhill runs. Do you hear any popping on decel?
8:04 ~ Hard Gargling is the decel, not a pop. I kill the engine so I could enter the data in any of the 3 microphones.
8:17 ~ With the transet I did not hear that tick in 2nd gear, nor feel it.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siV6y8evVk4

If you concentrate on the foot lever and clutch, you can make the trans shift as quiet as a mouse. I have 3 ping tones I can decipher as the digital camcorder microphone can pick up the change in tone no human ear could.

And, Steve, did you give me some slack wit a pun intended some time ago? Go check that drive chain on this video. The initial slack was deliberately pre-adjusted way too loose than book standards. I wanted to see if a new chain would pull round. I tried it on the '06 and it seemed to hold it's consistency so as not to high-spot itself. Once I knew that test had some validity to it, I passed it along. So after 10 thousand miles on the rung of this '08, she is holding up fine.

As far as the tones ringing a change in my ear, it's just part of entertaining myself. Say I 'play it forward' as in useless information you waste your minutes listening to it too.

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