.....the Japanese Empire that is, the once powerful Japan Inc. Since BMW, Triumph, Ducati etc. delivered several severe body blows to the Big Four with the BMW S1000RR, 675R and 1199 the Japanese have been on the ropes. Suzuki appears to be on the mat actually, out cold and Honda and Yamaha are gasping for air. Only Kawasaki seems to be fighting back with the newly unveiled 636 to take on the new 675R, the 14R which has finally dethroned the Hayabusa for good and of course the venerable Gen 4 ZX-10R which is winning WSBK races if not hearts and minds and which I actually prefer to the BMW. Apparently I am in the minority as the S1000RR is a runaway best seller... but I digress.

What do you guys that ride literbikes want to see from Japan Inc., big HP numbers to compete with the S1000RR or bikes that lap faster by integrating TC, user friendly powerbands, low weight and superb suspension? Or all the above?

We already know that big HP numbers alone do not automatically equate with fast lap times, one look at Ducati's fire breathing GP12 tells that tale. Lots of power but unable to get it to the ground or give the rider useable feedback marred that machines record.

the 14R which has finally dethroned the Hayabusa for good

I'd like to see things stay the same and bikes get cheaper.

Well, you get half of your wish, bikes are staying the same and getting more expensive.

I think it would be cool if yamaha tried to come up with something to compete with the 14. I'm sure they would come up with something with tons of power and not butt ugly like the busa.

you know, after the last price jump, I don't even want another one if they go up another couple grand. Used ones won't be very appealing either if they can't be had for a low ball price.

this is getting like wife shopping.

Susuki cars out in the USA,out next year in canada.Are there bikes next

"bikes are staying the same and getting more expensive".....I don't see that at all.Maybe SOME bikes are staying the same...ours haven't...and you can find really good deals on older gens...and it will be that way with these new ones as well...in 3 years...something new and big will come forward...and the watchers will walk in to the dealers and be buying this year's model at a good price...don't you think so?There's still at lot more technology waiting to be refined and packaged....the bikes of the future are gonna LOOK like...the bikes of the future.These 'movie fantasy' bikes....gonna be real some day up ahead.Just like the sci-fi of old.This thing is only beginning to grow...the future generations are gonna be dazzled with the products that'll be out there...wish I could go another 100 years.

I think there's coming a time up ahead where the internal combustion engine is no longer the primary power source.I believe that.There's SO much stuff going on right now that we don't even have a clue about....but it's there...waiting for the right time.This generation of kids and all...way more scientific minded than they get credit for.This world is FULL of potential and fresh thinking.Time...it just takes time.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 3/28/2013 @ 8:25 AM *

"bikes are staying the same and getting more expensive".....I don't see that at all.Maybe SOME bikes are staying the same

Grn, please go back and re-read my post, this is more about liter bikes and supersports but I did mention that KHI has introduced some innovative products including the 14R, 636 and new 10R.

It just seems the whole scene is getting stagnant, Honda pushing the exact same CBR1000RR for six years now, Suzuki and Yamaha changing very little in the last four years on their sport bikes. The big news has been from Ducati, Aprilia, MV and BMW.

The prices of the bikes are going up and dramatically, give it a few years and a new 14R will be at $20,000 drive out, bet on it!

Kruz, I live in Canada, the ZX here is 18, 000 before taxes. Many of us have parted with 20, 000 just to own one. It is crazy. Buy new and you look at sticker price, admin fee, GST 13% and then licensing and insurance. By last count I am in the 20 and above club. But you are right bike costs are on the rise, just look at the price leap (ZX 14) from 2012 to 2013. Here in Canada there is an almost 2000 beans difference check out Kawi Canada website and see cost comparison between this year and last year.

I hear honda is banishing the CBR for a V4, or at least a V4 prototype. BMW is developing a concept 6, cyclinder, and I hear suzuki, gsx r has a v 4 prototype on the horizon. Not sure what these manufacturers will do in 2014, but many are talking about the next steps in engin evolution. Then the BUSA has to respond to the big king. I will say here these displacement differences are beyond my riding talents, ie to exploit these power ranges, but I do think the v4 engin delivers power in a completely different manner. Oh and did I mention these new v4 concepts are slated to arrive in the mid to low 30's. I'm just happy with my ZX and plan to enjoy her for at least the next decade. Then maybe I will be looking at an electric bike?!@3$5^&*

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 3/31/2013 @ 1:31 PM *

Yep, I paid $ 10,999 total drive out for my '06 14 in June of 2006. Here we are coming up on June 2013 and we're talking over $15,000 for a new 14R from the same dealer. That's roughly a 36% increase.

Honda needs to be careful or they'll end up pricing themselves right out of the reach of most young buyers with that new V-4. If they're serious about a $30,000 price tag, they should keep the current machine as a second tier offering. 30 grand is Ducati territory and the insurance cost is going to be sky high.

Kruz, I live in Canada, the ZX here is 18, 000 before taxes. Many of us have parted with 20, 000 just to own one. It is crazy

Yamaha is going to a three cylinder crossplane crank layout on both the R6 and R1. It's a gamble, R&D money is hard to come by these days and there's a diminishing number of units being sold, ask Suzuki, they may not survive. Return on investment might not be there if, like the current crossplane bike, it turns out to be a bit of a dud. Don't get me wrong, I like the new R1 but let's face it, the bike is overweight and down on HP and has taken a beating for it in the motorcycling press. I like the idea of two cylinder L twins, inline three cylinder and inline four cylinder powered machines going head to head, it get's really boring when the mfgs. start playing copycat games and making cookie cutter machines.

My boy, Bean 07, the msrp here on a 2013, with abs is 17, 999, last year you can pick up the special edition for 16 999. Because the stealership takes admin, and 13% tax, you are already in the 20 club. That's before insurance and license fee. I was like WOW! It brought me to my knees, but I still happily parted with the cash to own one of these babies. How is it down under yander, I am sure the same crippling effect. I talked to a fairly reasonable stealership in Toronto, they told me the special edition is very difficult to find in 2013, at least in Ontario. They told me they could find a 2012 emblazen green in British Columbia - 3000km away- as they had two units there, and they would be happy to freight it down for 18k...I told em that the msrp online is 16 999 and they said, yeah, but good luck getting one in Ontario. CRAZY I say, CRAZY!!!

Yeah with on that to Wolfman in choice now is only Black special ED ( with Green Highlights ) thats IT !!! but atleast weve had ABS from first release!

This is what they have to beat, do you think the Japs can dig deep and come up with a bike to take on the HP4?

From what Eric Bostrom is saying in this article, active suspension is the future. The Empire will have to step up to the plate and go active suspension and TC on everything or continue to watch BMW steal their sales away.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/09/13/2013-bmw-hp4-first-ride-review/

....but pricey...

http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2013-BMW-HP4-109590112

Here is the dilema, I have. I rode one of these, not an HP4 but the regular 2012 improved version of the S1000RR. Back to back on the same roads as my ZX-10R and came away ...unimpressed. I was anticipating an almost life changing, mystical experience based on the massive media hype surrounding this machine and was quite frankly underwhelmed. My thoughts were that it was a pleasant machine, felt a bit top heavy compared to my ZX-10R and not as lithe and there was a certain coarseness about it, a slightly unrefined feel. It had power but didn't seem to be much different than my 10R and too be honest, I wanted back on my 10R.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 4/2/2013 @ 7:43 AM *

When Ducati was bought by Volkswagen last year they had global sales of approximately 40,000 motorcycles. Honda during the previous year had sales of 16.9 MILLION (16,900,000) motorcycles worldwide. In comparison Harley-Davidson only delivered 247,625 motorcycles to the entire world in 2011 and I personally see them all over the place.

I doubt the Empire is too worried about striking back at anything. Ducati has seen very impressive sales growth percentages in North America lately but a 40% improvement on a weak sales total of 5,000 bikes is only a increase of a few thousand items. Honda donates more than that to trade schools and training centers.

I just wish they'd drop their idea of bringing motorcycles with automatic transmissions to market. We see how that went with our automobiles and now I can't even find a full-size pickup with a manual gearbox.

* Last updated by: Fowvay on 4/2/2013 @ 11:44 AM *

You guys bring a whole new perspective on the Empire, beyound what I had thought possible. I was just holding on to hope that the King could hold on to her title for a little bit longer. It should be said there are about 10 more manufacturers that build machines that are more powerful, but at present, they are, from a financial price point, well above what us mere mortals can afford (I'll speak for myself here anyway). I point to the BMV, Confederate, Ducati and there are some other smaller manufacturers that kick ass too. But at present, under 20, 000, the KING is KING!
May the force be with you!

Here is the dilema, I have. I rode one of these, not an HP4 but the regular 2012 improved version of the S1000RR. Back to back on the same roads as my ZX-10R and came away ...unimpressed. I was anticipating an almost life changing, mystical experience based on the massive media hype surrounding this machine and was quite frankly underwhelmed. My thoughts were that it was a pleasant machine, felt a bit top heavy compared to my ZX-10R and not as lithe and there was a certain coarseness about it, a slightly unrefined feel. It had power but didn't seem to be much different than my 10R and too be honest, I wanted back on my 10R.

Hey Kruzer...sounds like you still got it bad for a new toy:) Heres the deal as straight as I can give it, being the former owner of a few Japanese marvels and now the owner of none. Currently I've got two Germans and the Brit; 2012 S1000RR, (that you rode), BMW k1600GT for my two up trips and a 2013 Triumph Street Triple R, (that I traded the ZX-14R for.)
Well I say here's the deal, now I'm gonna struggle with how to say it. It's my opinion that you can't ride either of the Bimmers once, for a short period of time and bond with them, see the face of God, or perhaps even appreciate them. Here's a case in point; I was in a serious Sport Touring phase and bought a Kawasaki Concours. I rode that bike hard and long and loved it most of the time but when the new almighty K1600GT came out, I got on the list. When a pre order buyer backed out, I was on the backup list. They agreed to let me ride it for 10 miles before I wrote the check for $25 large. You're gonna love this--I came back and said no thanks. I told them my Concours had better suspension, was quicker, and felt more like a motorcycle to me. For all the hype and expense, I thought the K1600 felt too car like, had a too firm suspension or just plain different feeling one and overall wasn't what I was expecting. Keep in mind I had ridden the K1600GTL demo version for a brief ride, and for the most part "remembered" loving it. Two days went by and I couldn't stop thinking about the ride on the big Bimmer. I'm not sure why, but I wrestled another 10 mile ride out them, came back and wrote the check. I kept my Connie though. I kept them side by side for about 3 months and slowly but surely, the absolutely perfectly flawless inline four marvel began to lose some luster. Not one thing wrong with it. Fast as hell. Handled very well for a ST. Looked sexy and mean. It just started to feel bland. Meanwhile the BMW was speaking to me in terms and ways that are hard to define. It had almost nothing in common with the Jap bike. It felt terminally German and foreign and imperfect in some ways, but it has mountains and mountains upon mountains of personality and, dare I say it, character. It's fit and finish is ridiculous and it oozes that intangible measure of machine and engineering. It also is a technological wonder, fast as hell, handles like a dream, and still doesn't have the pliant ride of the Concours, most of the time:) It rides like a sport luxury BMW, not like a Sport Kawasaki or name your Japanese brand. Nothing rides like Japanese bikes. More about that in a minute.

I sold the Connie to buy the BMW S1000RR.

I had test ridden this bike many many times. I also owned the ZX-14R, knew what a nice blend of sport taut and wonderful street suspension should feel like. I also had ridden a 2011 ZX-10R many times, with a dabble on a Yamaha R1. There wasn't much about what a Japansese bike felt like that would surprize me. The BMW S1000RR didn't feel like any of them. In some ways, not even remotely comparable. I wasn't sure I even liked it. It had a hard race track bred edge to it. It's suspension was firm, even at factory settings. It's engine was loud and made all kinds of mechanical noises. There was a bit of high frequency vibration through the bars and pegs for a brief moment as you raced throught he gears. Yet every time I sat on it, and hit the starter button, it's the one that felt like it had nearly 200HP lurking beneath it and offered something none of the Jap bikes didn't. Yep, mountains upon mountains upon mountains of personality and even more character. The fit and finish is impeccable, it is a literal rocket ship, and it does corner and handle like I can only imagine a honest race bike would. The Jap bikes were all so perfect. So smooth. So like a Lexus versus, well a BMW car or name a Euro car vs a Japanese one. I bought the BMW S1000RR from a prior HD owner that had put 300 miles on it and backed away quickly. I bought it for the right price. I remember telling you the day we rode, after swapping bikes that I thought I preferred your ZX-10R. Maybe I still would, but after about 7k miles now on the S1000RR, honestly all I usually think after a serious ride on it is "what an freaking incredible motorcycle." I didn't say that after the first 500 miles, or every time I rode it at first, or even the day we rode together. I had to bond with that bike, like I did with the big Bimmer K1600. Neither bike has an ounce of Asian blood in it. They cannot be compared IMO. Yet they both offer something, after the bonding period, that knowing you a little bit, I think would agree is priceless.

All I would say to close on that is, the more you ride Euro bikes, whether it be the MV's, Duc's, BMW's, Aprilias, Triumphs, the more you come to appreciate the different riding experience. And by that I don't mean, blindly accept problems and quirks. I don't do that. They have to run and be reliable. They are just different and will feel different till the connection happens. On most Jap bikes that connection can happen in 5 minutes, or at least that has been my experience. Not so with these bikes. I've ridden too many Aprilia's, BMW's and Triumphs, with the Triumph being the closest to instant bonding.

The moral of the story as I see it is that, and hold on to your hat, Japanese motocycles are the best made motorcycles in the world. They have been for a long time now, and whether the Empire strikes back with answers to the techno edge the Euro's have tossed up or not isn't certain. They will need to, right or wrong, just as Kawi has, but it won't change that Japansese bikes are so good, they run the risk of being taken for granted by many, and for others they don't offer the elite brand image desired. I recounted this after an hour long ride on a Honda CBR 1000RR. Such a perfect motorcycle, it bored me to tears in many ways. Bored on a 150HP bike, riding on the street! Honestly, Lexus bores me. So does Acura. So does Infiniti. Too much copy cat and yes too much perfection.

You have a garage full of Japanese perfection. Maybe you should just buy one Euro with that hard to define character and give yourself a chance to bond with it. You'll get it pretty quick. All that said, someday, I would not be a bit surprised if my garage isn't full of a CBR 1000RR, ZX-10R, another ZX-14R...just no Goldwings thank you very much. I'm keeping the Bimmers and will now always have a healthy mix of Euro sport bikes along side those flawless Japanese machines:)

Good to see you all...hope you don't mind me popping in!

Jagman, that dissertation about character and feel brings up a good point. For those of you that frequently read motorcycles magazines, Cycle World's May, 2013 issue has a excellent article about engineering styles and philosophies. Author Kevin Cameron (TDC article titled "National Styles") discusses what makes a German machine feel 'German' or why a American design seems poorly thought-out yet performs flawlessly.

It really boils down to what a individual desires in a machine. I don't believe that any company makes a bad example of a modern motorcycle. They're all fantastic in their own way but certainly won't appeal to every liking. I personally own nothing but German cars (currently VW and BMW and formerly Mercedes-Benz) but I have no desire to ride German motorcycles. I guess it boils down to our own personalities. I don't really feel that BMW is a threat to companies like Kawasaki or Suzuki but I sure am glad that they're keeping everyone on their toes.

Jagman, that dissertation about character and feel brings up a good point. For those of you that frequently read motorcycles magazines, Cycle World's May, 2013 issue has a excellent article about engineering styles and philosophies. Author Kevin Cameron (TDC article titled "National Styles") discusses what makes a German machine feel 'German' or why a American design seems poorly thought-out yet performs flawlessly.

It really boils down to what a individual desires in a machine. I don't believe that any company makes a bad example of a modern motorcycle. They're all fantastic in their own way but certainly won't appeal to every liking. I personally own nothing but German cars (currently VW and BMW and formerly Mercedes-Benz) but I have no desire to ride German motorcycles. I guess it boils down to our own personalities. I don't really feel that BMW is a threat to companies like Kawasaki or Suzuki but I sure am glad that they're keeping everyone on their toes.

Good points, I love Kevin Cameron's indepth analysis, wish I could find a copy of that article. I agree with you, there are no bad bikes anymore, at least in the Superbike category and almost anyone of them could have won a WSBK championship out of the box ten years ago. It irks me the way the motorcycle press feels like they have to rate the bikes, like this is what everyone needs and everything else is something less! Like you are saying, each of us is looking for something different and no one bike is going to be all things to all men. The machine that ticks off the most boxes on your personal wish list is going to be the one you want in your garage. For some, that is only ever going to be a Ducati, others are going to go with nothing but Japanese. I still say that 99% of the performance equation on any modern superbike is setup and the rider's ability with the small differences between machines making up maybe the last 1%.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 4/4/2013 @ 8:11 AM *

Good to hear from you again Jag, you need to stop by more often. I get what you're saying, you apparently have the means to afford whatever you want and for you, character and maybe a touch of exclusivity are at the top of your priority list. The Japanese stuff has been accused of lacking soul, they long ago perfected the art of motorcycle building and their products just flat work.....at the expense of seeming a bit cookie cutter sometimes, pressed from the same mold.

This is why I've been looking at Ducati's lately, especially the 1098s and 1198S. To me, nothing exudes character like an Italian twin.....but could I live with the brands darker side? That is the question. I've been spoiled by bikes that are ready to go anytime you are, flip the key and they start, the Ducati...maybe not so much. I've heard that riding a Ducati makes you feel special, something that other motorcycles cannot always claim....until you have to have it serviced and then....reach for your checkbook and bend over....lol!

One other thing I've noticed from having a garage full of bikes at my disposal, my favorite varies over time depending upon the mood I'm in. I remember that day we rode up to Illinois Bend, my 10R and I were bonding, talking to each other like all cylinders were clicking. A few days ago I was riding my CBR1000RR and thought "what an amazingly competent machine, so confidence inspiring". Ditto on my venerable old '06 ZX-14, I was riding it and thinking what an amazing machine to ride, so smooth, powerful and light on it's feet for such a comfortable motorcycle.

I am happy to have all of these fantastic machines and can't really say anything bad about any of them. All have strengths, weaknesses and their own personality traits that can endear them....or irritate.

Kruz--when you're the kind of motorcycle enthusiast that most of us on here are, things like you expressed, "One other thing I've noticed from having a garage full of bikes at my disposal, my favorite varies over time depending upon the mood I'm in", could not be a truer statement. I also am always assessing my rides and often my sentiments are based on the mood I'm in, weather conditions, or just that wanderlust that comes from loving these machines so much you want to own one of each:) I've learned that I should never make any kind of rash decision because the very next ride may provide me a very different opinion of whichever bike I'm riding. At this point, for me, all 3 bikes are so different that I don't really ever get into a like for like comparison. The Street Triple is a wonderful machine for a naked and I don't have a Ducati Monster to compare it to. The S1000RR is a wonderful machine and I don't have a ZX-10R to compare it to. The K1600GT is great and I don't have a Goldwing to compare it to. I'm sure if I did, I'd either drive myself a little nutty, or my desires would be satisfied knowing that I didn't have to make any kind of concession to the superiority of any over the others:) Hopefully it would be the latter.

Here's what I admit; I miss the 14R. I love the Street Triple--a lot! But, and I know you told me so, I wish I still had the 14R, so I will buy a 2012 again within the next couple of years. I love the S1000RR but the ZX-10R and the CBR1000RR for now still hold massive appeal to me and I will likely own an 08-10 CBR or an 11 ZX-10R at some point. Hell who knows, if Honda makes a big splash in 2014 with the Fireblade, I may trade the S1000RR.

The point is that, yes while I do put character and a touch of exclusivity somewhere on my list, it's probably not at the top. If character means, it may or may not start, or has horrible fueling issues anywhere other than high speed runs, count me out. For that matter, unlike you, Italian bikes don't do much for me. But neither do Italian cars or clothes:) I DO love German cars, (owned a lot of them) and like a lot about German motorcycles. Having said that, they do have a bit of that teutonic cold feel to them "at times." Both my S1000RR and K1600GT from time to time feel a bit less friendly than any Jap bike I've owned.

So back to my point in my earlier post, I honestly still believe Japan makes the best overall motorcycles in the world. They always feel friendly, inviting and trustworthy and but I'm as guilty as the next reviewer in relegating them to the bland category from time to time. I wish I could shake that feeling though, because anyone who has ridden any of these great machines at any kind of spirited pace knows bland and perfection can sometimes be intermixed. I would again use the Lexus vs BMW or Mercedes comparison. It's that Euro vs Asian thing.

For me the ideal would be:
2 liters-BMW S1000RR and either a CBR 1000RR or ZX-10R, (but who knows with Yamaha's bold 3 cyl plans)
2 Supersports-Triumph Daytona and a ZX-6R
1 Sport Tourer-probably good with the K1600GT but if Kawasaki stepped up into the next realm with the Concours, I'd could see going back there. In fact, thats one of those "whatever mood I'm in" things you mentioned. There are times I miss the Connie and think I'd prefer it over the Big Bimmer. Then I'll have a nice 300 mile ride on it and think "what was I thinking":)
2 Nakeds/Cruisers-Triumph Street Triple R and the new upcoming Triumph remake of the Bonneville Thruxton (updated suspension with more power rumored to hit the market in 2014)

So basically, like most of us, I want Jay Leno's garage:) If one is willing to shop around, has the room and doesn't have to have brand new for each of the above, it can happen.

BTW--I also get tired of the constant ranking of bikes. Of course the obvious cure to that is to stop reading so many of the damn motorcycle magaines and online blogs. I spend more money at Barnes and Noble on the brilliant British bike mags than I do on tires:) I have a buddy who said he never could fall in love with any bike he had in the garage until he stopped reading them. I think he has a point!:)

Jagman and Kruz,
For me this discussion is completely theoretical, my budget is limited to one bike, and carrying one bike. The ZX is quite the strain on the pocket as is… I’ve always had to compromise given what age/stage I was in as a rider (single, married, commuting, kids, passion etc)… I read Cycle Canada and I have a few others in my library I plunder. I hate reading them, as they put the thought of other bikes in my head. Deadly!
That said, if I were to happen upon some extra loot, I would want to add the MV Agusta, Brutale 800. A very uncomfortable but mean looking, flickable, street hooligan!
I might also want to add some motor cross bikes from KTM for my son and I and get him into riding. But, then I’d have to splurge for a cottage. Decisions, decisions….

* Last updated by: Wolfman on 4/4/2013 @ 10:35 AM *