I hope this is the right place for this thread.....

I am really starting to try and learn and adjust the bike etc but I I have a two part question.
I always hear of settings for the shocks as for Rebound and Damping for "Track" or "Street" but in my case I commute for the most part but weekends and some weekdays I go through the canyons which can be more like a track on some roads....
So... Where in the middle would the canyons be set vs for track
AND ... Since I plan on doing both on a weekly basis and at the same time trying to get smoother and faster .. Where would I leave my suspension set for?... I don't mind a stiffer street ride if it leaves my bike able to be set for the canyons mostly but I don't know how that will effect my riding on the street which is 90% freeway.
HOW to set it is another whole story... I would be curious if there's any 165 lb riders out there what your preloads and shocks are set at...
Thanks
Paul

('08 with Pilot Road 3's if that effects what I should do)

Paul can I piggy back your question, anyone set up for 230lbs?

Go for it

I'm 210-235lbs depending on whether I feel like being agile or working on strength and power so my advice won't be the greatest. @ 165, you could get away with the stock suspension but a good start would be to put a zip tie somewhere on the fork and measure how much travel you're using during commute. Then do the same thing for the canyon/track ride. Also put down on paper how the bike feels in certain condition i.e my front end was vague manly during descending turns, how does the bike feel when you accelerate etc
Personally, I like it stiff but I must admit that when I get on a bumpy road it's not fun.
When you go to your next track day, have the suspension guy help you out. Even somebody famous like Dave Moss takes only 30-40 bucks so it's definitely worth it. My guess is that you will have to beef up the front suspension, because even though you're light, the 14 is a heavy bike and the front tend to dive under hard braking. Front end should cost $200-300. I've got the ZX-10 front fork kits (a bike that weight a ton less) and it made a HUGE difference, but race tech, k-tech or traxxion dynamics are all muy bueno. If you ride in a place with a lot of elevation change this mod is a must IMO.

In short, my advice for both of you guys is: go to a professional. People ride differently on different terrains. Think about racing in moto gp. The bikes make more or less the same power, they're build around the same tires (so chassis are alike unless you ride a Duc), and they use the same lines but the suspensions settings and tire pressures are really different among riders.

Sounds like great advice.. Thanks Dragking!
I will try and do the zip tie trick in the front forks today before my ride home and report my findings after a jaunt in the canyons as well. Always helps to have a place to start.
I counted what my bike was at for front shock adjustments and rebound and damping was at 1 click tighter than default.. Rear shock I will check later. I did set the front forks 1 click further top and bottom so will see if I'm a little less bottom out prone on driveways and how it feels.
I will ask the shops around here about doing the suspension adjustments for me.

Get the old lady out and use one person for this. Make the math constant so she/kid has to look at the tape and find the two points they will keep using over again.

Sag Setting:

1. Set bike up on both wheels, no weight on the bike, full/half tank, no biggie.
2. Have h/er measure at the frame somewhere and the tape measure goes down to the bolt/hole/line at the swing arm.
3. Sit on bike with street cloths and screw the helmet and boots. If you want to add boots and leathers, go ahead.
4. Whoever is taking marks is going to be (+/-) on the gear anyway so just sit on the bike with the house clothes, shorts, whatever.
5. You now have un-sag and sag numbers.
6. Split those numbers in half and now raise the spring static to that height.

Compression settings:

1. Set the range in the middle or find owner's manual to set parameters.
2. Plush is letting the oil zip thru the opening so out comes the compression like a pogo stick.
3. In is the needle to narrow the orifice.

Rebound:

1. Same as compression are the guess in the middle or book base.
2. Same oil flow theory in the forks you tighten the rebound up.
3. Same in setting to control the pogo sticking is for every action up = There is a controlled action down.

Spring Rate:

1. This is the wallet reach around for wideye opening is you buck up on the good wire.
2. This is triangulation locking so [all] the springs full numbers and half numbers = 1 Average number is the spring.
3. This is where you do not skimp on trackday specific parts made for a better day at it = Must have a selection of springs.

Video:

Brock has a great [spring action adjustment range] video so you can see what the rear end does, what you need for squatting out of the corners, is the same as Brock mentioning the squat from a dead stop is the same setup in theory just about.

Dave Moss may have a squat the sag video, put you thru too many pushings of the springs, but that's his static and static is static you let something go, right? Same as standing the bike up off the side stand. For every plunge down is the static has settled up.

AMA Lenny is sag ain't the game. It's pump it up, pump it up, pump it up. He's kind of right. The harder my suspension was, the better it felt. I see no difference back then and now. It's the same game under your ass.

Conventional wisdom holds that stiffer is better for going fast, but really it depends on the rider and their "style" if I could abuse a word. I start out at what's comfortable and add damping and spring as is necessary for control. Ultimately, you are compromising something unless you constantly adjust for different conditions. The idea that someone could tell someone else where to set their suspension or that there is an "ideal" setting for a certain bike with a rider of a certain weight is a bit of a fantasy. Someone can give you a starting point, and you can change it from there to make it work for you. I started out with a recommended setting and cranked off the spring and damping three times before I got it where it is now. Some would consider it "soft", but it works for me. I am trying to be a smooth as possible on the control inputs. A harshly suspended bike wears me out and cuts my riding time. For the life of me, I don't understand why they don't put remote preload adjusters on the rear shocks of these things. Would it really cost that much?

Yes. I say it will be a long tube, pressurized handle with intricate internals on a hand dial, mount area, idea as to how to plumb it all in and save weight where now?: times very few bikes made.

I'm with you, Danno. Soft for street, hard for race/trackday. Call it sPs = Sport Plush Settings. If Paul gets out more in the canyons quicker than making plans for the next trackday, this would put the bike in sport plush. So the motocross setting is where I kind of set the long distance travel. Less hammering on the body. You want the zip-tie hitting bottom or say an inch above or more. This soaks up the bumps, won't cause an effect while braking hard in the streets? You're not going that fast anyway, nor will the radiator hit and all that plush front and rear end.

Then, it's back to sagging and someone said there would be a "HUGE" change with new wire or those quality spring rates in the front alone. The other would be a kit for the plumbing inside the fork legs, but the springs alone will make you wake up to how a bike begins to 'feel.'

Mine had at least two owners before me and I suspect one might have re-sprung the fork, because it's not nearly as soft as some stockers I have ridden. That being said, I won't be changing fork oil until this winter and have no clue what's in there. The rear shock should be getting tired at 33K miles, but so far, I don;t notice it. This weekend, I will get a chance to ride one with a new Penske shock and Racetech internals in the front. The owner is nearly 50 lbs lighter than me, so I don't expect to find it set up too stiff.

Well damn.. I forgot to put a zip tie on my front fork for my drive home... And I have to take the cage to work tomorrow. Will do the zip tie checking Friday on the way to work by normal commute then home by "Mulholland" and see how the two compare.
Will start there and then try and get sag set with the help of a friend or the wife.
Will do some more reading and also will go over the posts you guys have put so far.. Those are some in depth intense posts!.. Will have to re read them a few times to get them fully digested.
Awesome!... You guys have been an incredible amount of help!..
Every post I've put has gotten great info and feed back..
Thanks again!...

* Last updated by: ItsPaul on 5/15/2013 @ 11:41 PM *

Then, it's back to sagging and someone said there would be a "HUGE" change with new wire or those quality spring rates in the front alone. The other would be a kit for the plumbing inside the fork legs, but the springs alone will make you wake up to how a bike begins to 'feel.'

This weekend, I will get a chance to ride one with a new Penske shock and Racetech internals in the front. The owner is nearly 50 lbs lighter than me, so I don't expect to find it set up too stiff.

* Last updated by: dragking on 5/16/2013 @ 4:06 PM *

Yes as you guessed..Hub... I will 100% be seeing the canyons before another track day.
Next track day may be September or next March. Canyon may be tomorrow but no later than Sunday.
I will definitely try to start sqeezing in more time on settings and hope my butt-dyno will be able to put what's happening on the bike on each setting into understandable words. My first feeling is that my lack of experience will not let me see or feel clearly the clues I need to make the next adjustment properly.
Am going to give it my best shot tho.

Alright, guessing this will do... If I don't go below the top two thirds of the travel does that mean I need to let up a bit or is that a comfort call?.. Will report when I get to work where it lands or just add another pic.
Will work on the actual sag when I have adequate help.. Fortunately installing a zip tie is a one man job even in a carport... Thanks again for all the pointers and way of getting rolling on this.
Will work my way down the list as I have time.

* Last updated by: ItsPaul on 5/16/2013 @ 9:53 PM *

Well ill be... I thought I searched zx-14 until YouTube banned me but I never searched suspension set up and found a nice 3 part video for dialing in a rider on a 14.. Will be watching those tomorrow ..
Thanks for the idea!

See the dust on the fork near the reflector? See how clean it is above that? That is your travel. We have the same travel stop to the dust. So that is pretty much all she wrote.

Say you brake real hard to slow down. That zip is going to land about where the dust is. So you measure the zip either at the top or bottom of the zip so you are measuring the same point down to that distance.

Then, count your winds or clicks. If it dives too fast, return the screws one or two clicks or a half round. If you want to feel the difference quicker, run three clicks and one full wound. It's all how you want the bike to run over a bump. How fast it recovers? Hard to make one click change something. That's why I said to run a lot of clicks so you can see how reacts or what it does a lot sooner, meaning.

* Last updated by: Hub on 5/16/2013 @ 11:05 PM *

Ok Hub.. Thanks.. Makes perfect sense...I was wishing I had not turned it in the extra click a couple days ago before the zip tie test but I left it because I seemed to be bottoming out on driveway entrances even at real slow speeds before.. I'm sure you're right about the dust being apparent around 2 inches away from bottom.
I will hopefully get a chance to come home from work in the canyon and see what a difference from highway/street to (my pace) canyon riding shows.
All this reading and playing has been a blast!.. Never put so many miles so fast on a bike and I can solidly say this has been my favorite all around bike by a mile!..
Now if I can start stepping up my tuning and riding skills I just can't ask for anything more!

Thanks!
Paul

I will maybe (after seeing what the zip tie does on street and canyon)
Start making bolder adjustments and hopefully like your last post says.. See an exaggerated indication of what my adjustments are doing and how to best use the info for the finer tuning later on.
Maybe 2-3 clicks harder then softer up and down the same road a few times and just see if I notice what's changing.

Ever functional settings where the disparity between rebound and dampening firmness is big?

Mine does that bottom out knock too going slow up the driveway. No concern here. I hear nothing on the hardest bumps riding.

These guys are out a lot with their speed guns sitting on top of bridges, sitting in bushes. Must be some campaign going on? I'm not worried since I paid off my ticket and now I'm in the penalty box being all legal speed limit, getting cut off, slowing down too much being in the right lane out of the way of the speeders and others coming on and going off ramps.

That's not to say you can't slow and steady the lines, not think like you are out to get Rossi around the next turn.

On my 07 I used three lines showing on the front preload.Rebound damping was at 5 I believe.Compression I had set at 5 as well.The rear shock....two lines(full turns of the spring adjuster) compressed...rebound...1 and 1/2,...compression....1 full turn out(from closed).This worked well for me at 175 lbs.

Grn14.. thanks for your settings being youre the same weight.. i will like to compare where I wind up in my novice operations of adjustments.
I did notice when I got to work this morning my zip tie was as Hub predicted right at the dust line.. I also for hit a speed bump moving along about 15 mph and it also stopped at the dust line even after making a bottoming out kind of noise... Is the fact that its a little built up and rougher due to the dirt that my shock doesn't want to go below that point?.. Or do they mechanically not exceed that point easily?.. I thought for sure after hitting that speed bump and hearing the noise that I did it would have been a bit lower... Maybe I should clean up the dirty part with something real mild and see if there becomes a difference on the travel

No...your fork will compress all the way to the stop...that dust won't keep it from bottoming.You did hear it bottom.Mine did that as well...until I gave er some preload.Thought it was something crunching on the front...nope...just bottoming.It certainly didn't sound like it was something I should not 'correct' if possible.So I did.

Ok... I'm a little confused tho since it made the "bottoming" noise ( to me at least) but the zip tie was still about the height of the dust line... I will maybe hit a drive way or two and see what the zip tie does...
I am seeing 5 lines on the pre loaders..

On one of the videos it showed a guy sitting on his own bike and another person put his weight on the bars and dive the front end down then release to get the sag vs just sitting on the bike with no other actions.. For riding down a road this seems like the more logical approach compressing the front and letting it go...

Make sense to you?

You probably watching the Dave Moss with that green ZX-14 video... good stuff. I doubt you're bottoming out. I think you're hearing the spring. Mine does that sometimes, it's just the spring (s) seating a certain way, usually some more hard braking makes it go bye bye. Sometimes I can hear it for a couple of weeks. I haven't heard it since I lost 20 lbs though

Cool.. That makes me feel better.. I know I'm driving a big brute but still feel like I'm hurting it every time I cause it to make a funny noise..

Nice video here by Kawi Tech on the big boy's as in 275 lbs bike, think there are 2 parts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzTkpqasr0