Hello All,
Let me start by saying- I am NOT mechanically inclined (as you will shortly find out). I recently returned from a year in Korea. My bike had sat for a better part of that year without being ridden. It cranked right up and i had no problems out of it. After a few weeks, i noticed my bike running hot and sometimes not starting after riding and stopping for a short period and trying to start the bike again. The coolant level looked good. I did notice that there was NO oil visible in the sight-glass, even after the bike sat for a while. (stupidly, I admit-) I added 4 quarts of oil to the bike. I let the bike sit and after a while, I could see 'clean' oil right in the center of the glass (bike was level). I started the bike and let it run for a few minutes (no oil in the sight glass)and shut it off. I didn't ride at that time but checked it again 2 days later and the glass was completely black. I started the bike and (no oil in the glass) rode it for a while. I was about a mile from finishing the ride and the bike started smoking. It stopped after about 2 blocks and then started again. I made it to my storage and parked it. Since then I drained the oil completely and changed the filter. The battery also had to be replaced. After trying to start the bike, it only makes a CLUNK sound. I ruled out the battery as the issue (bought a new one and charged it properly). With all that done, all the bike will do is make the CLUNK sound. Is this something that can be fixed or am I looking at a new engine? Any help is appreciated.

THIS...sounds strange.Okay...so you "overfilled" her at one point,then rode(4 qts is not "just" overfilled)It's possible at ONE point you had 8 friggin qts in there!.Got smoke...what color?.THEN,you replaced the oil and put in the correct amount..yes?Before you put in the correct amount,before the change...she stopped cranking?Wouldn't start?And then continued to do this AFTER the oil level change(new oil)?Take yer bike...put er in 5th gear or so,push er till you hear(feel)the motor turning over(do not have your key on).See if that helps anything...and ,oh yes...REPORT back to us.BTW..I've never heard of an engine locking up from over oiling,but I suppose it could occur IF the overfill remained in there,but of course,you corrected that.I "think" adding 4 quarts to an already "filled" motor could definitely create a serious pressure issue somewhere inside.But I've no idea where or what it could be.4 quarts to an already'full' engine...and running it...ya...could probably damage something?IDK.That manual does mention "IF" you overfill,take the filter off and remove the "over" amount.(course,you could just as easily remove the drain plug and do it that way...seems easier to me anyway) Hope ya get er sorted out Bro.Bummer.

"Only make a clunk sound"...okay...as if it's "trying" to turn over,or what.Will she turn over at all?WHAT is you voltage at startup reading?(key on,no starter turning).

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/28/2010 @ 2:34 PM *

Blue,
I overfilled it and rode it. It was getting dark but the smoke appeared to be black. I drained and changed the oil and filter (to the correct level). The bike would not start (all the lights came on when the key was turned on). The bike only made the CLUNK sound. I removed the battery (original battery that came with the bike in '08). Had the battery tested and it needed to be replaced. I trickle-charged the new battery and installed (12.6-12.8v reading on the bike). Still will only CLUNK. Thanks for responding.

*how can I shift past neutral without the bike actually moving?

It doesn't even attempt to start. When I press the starter button, the bike makes the sound and then nothing. I get the normal movement of the gauges and lights and (fuel pump starting..?) when I turn the key.

* Last updated by: zx1441xz on 11/28/2010 @ 2:41 PM *

"All the lights came on when I turned the key on"...okay...you had to have hit the starter for that to happen.You make a good point...sorry,I was wrong about shifting it.I thought I had shifted mine before like that,but apparently not...I just went out and tried to shift into second....power off.No go.She won't shift like you said.HUB mentioned a while back that you could shut er down in 5th or 6th while in that gear....then you'd be able to turn the engine over by pushing.But your deal is not gonna work that way...you can't get er started.Okay...How about 1st then?Can you get er to move in 1st,even just a few engine revolutions?12.6 to 12.8....barely enough to fire my man.Iffy at best.

"doesn't even attempt to start"...okay,get on yer bike,raise the kickstand...get er in neutral first.NOW try starting.See what that does.

I'm just wondering here now...but "maybe" the running with the overfill(major overfill) damaged your starter mechanism somehow inside.I doubt the engine would be so damaged that she wouldn't turn over.Excessive (like yours?)oil pressure maybe could cause the starter to "fry" maybe?tryin to crank a way pressurized engine?

Can you instead of trying to turn the motor by pushing forward,maybe try going backward just enough to see if she'll turn...you know...nothing major,but maybe a few rpms,then go forward again(or not)(KEY OFF).

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/28/2010 @ 3:25 PM *

Still clunking, Blue. I pushed it forward in 1st gear (clutch had to be pulled in). Stopped and tried starting it- CLUNK. Placed it in neutral and tried to start again- CLUNK.

The battery is newly installed and trickle-charged til the 'green' light came on...

I tried rolling it back about 30 feet (key off)- CLUNK
And then back forward-CLUNK.
*the clunk is coming from the right side near the place you put oil in (if that helps)

Thanks for your patience.

* Last updated by: zx1441xz on 11/28/2010 @ 3:40 PM *

ZX, sounds like the clutch plates may be frozen together.

Oh wait, I went back and read your other post about not starting even in nuetral. Have you checked the battery voltage. I know it's new and you charged it but that is the best place to start. If the voltage is OK then move on to the starter and make sure the starter motor isn't seized up.

* Last updated by: heathun on 11/28/2010 @ 5:45 PM *

Liquid lock. Pull plugs and now watch the fuck OUT!

Way to go...

He did say he overfilled it didn't he?

I will remove and check the battery again. The voltage reads around 12.6-12.8v according to the bike. I was about to put the bike in the shop to have the sparkplugs and air filter replaced anyway. I guess now I dont have much of a choice. I thought it may be something I could fix myself, don't wanna make the problem worse...

Well ZX...what I meant by pushing forward(and backward)was...yeah,hold the clutch in till she's movin pretty good...then pop the clutch(without power on).Just to see if the motor will turn any.I'm thinkin Hub's sayin "cavitation" maybe(nah,guess that wouldn't be it)...I'm not sure.Since she's been sitting between all these "trys",I can't see how oil would be trapped above the piston head surface there...but ...maybe?Seems like it would drain down past the skirt?Or go up through the valves and drain free that way?My guess here now is the starter motor has been overloaded with trying to crank a super pressurized engine...and somehow been damaged.Just a guess.Even with a minimal battery voltage...she should crank..at least a couple of times slowly,then "die".12.6 is too low for firing in my experience,but it will still turn over grudgingly.This clunk you're talking about...I don't get that.On the right side...IDK.Wish I could hear this noise somehow.Might wanna go with the Hubman here...remove those plugs and see if she frees up.I can't see that whole top end there filling with oil and then staying that way.But then,I've never taken a top end apart...Hub probably has.(I've never taken ANY engine apart!Top end or otherwise).

You filled it.It started and ran for a while...then died.You tried starting it.It got ya home.WITH ALL THAT OIL IN THERE(blowing smoke as well).You changed the oil level,new battery.NOW, she won't turn over.I'd say starter blown.Any codes on the DASH?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/29/2010 @ 12:53 AM *

No codes on the dash. I will try popping the clutch with the bike off. Will keep you posted.

You'll know if the engine is frozen up by pushing and dropping the clutch.I don't think it is myself.Even just a couple of revolutions should show ya it's able to crank.If she does turn a few when pushing(probably won't be more than that in 1st...possibly only one revolution)...then I'd check yer starter for failure.

I looked in the manual on page 17-52(appendix)."engine won't turn over".Also,just above...the section"Engine doesn't Start.Starting difficulty"."Starter Motor NOT rotating".Sounds like your situation.

One maybe easier way to check if yer engine is seized is this...1)remove your ignition cover.No need to remove all the plastics...only the lower belly fairing.There's a small bolt at the top of the ignition cover(you won't see it by just looking straight on at the cover)....you can reach that with the small socket and an extension(a 1/4" drive extension)by gently pushing up and straight onto that bolt to remove/tighten.Remove em all.Get the socket that fits on the timer bolt.Put er in neutral.See if you can turn that shaft there with yer socket wrench.If you can...she's not seized up.It should turn some either way.Or....2)take that cover off.Put er in gear.Push forward OR backwards.That timer will rotate either way with the engine internals moving.Even if it's a small amount(which it probably will be cause she's in 1st).It most likely will not go anything near a full revolution.But at least you'll know if she's moving in there.If it's seized..it aint gonna move period.

Couple o'interesting comments here..."...and heard of a few more blown from too much oil. The first was a '58 Oldsmobile with about 6,000 miles and about 8 quarts of oil. The entire under carriage of the vehicle was coated with oil from the blow-by tube. This engine did not run very well. There is a terrific amount of load incurred from eight connecting rods swinging through 4 inches of oil. After being driven for about 25 miles, excessive air bubbles in the oil finally took its toll on the rod and main bearings. It's probably hard to believe but this engine seized.

The other was a '90 or '91 350 Chevrolet marine engine (in a boat, of course). I am not really sure how much oil was in the engine. It was hard to tell since about a 7 inch round hole was punched through the side of the block between number 5 and number 7, caused by number 6 breaking off at the very top of the rod. Another piston had begun to separate at the top ring groove. When we got the engine out we noticed that one of the block bulkheads was cracked from the main bearing cap almost all the way to the top of the crankcase cavity.

Yes, too much oil can blow a engine".....AND THIS ONE.."
It reaches a point though, where the oil reaches the height of the rotating crankshaft, and this whips the oil into a froth. Oil with lots of air in it does not lubricate well. The result can be the same kind of problems you would have running a car without oil...e.g. bearing failure, catastrophic damage".

So I'm thinkin..if she will turn some,she aint seized...and probably your starter motor fried tryin to crank with all that excess pressure in there.The starter started her up just prior to you getting back home.A couple o' turns to fire her up could have caused it to fail at that point even though she had started.You wouldn't know till ya tried again later on to fire her up.By that time...the oil change level didn't matter.I'm wonderin...did it sound different starting wise the last time it started?Like maybe draggin?Somethin like that?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/29/2010 @ 3:50 AM *

Hub,
If I understand you correctly, you think I may have posted this issue before (or it may not even exist..?) I seen a similar post while doing a search to try to find what is going on with my bike. The search led me to the old post (HELP!!! Bike won't start)- so I registered on this site. The rider that posted the thread never shared the results. I replied to that post hoping he would see it and reply. I can post pics, of what though?

I really do appreciate you guys for taking the time to respond and help me try to remedy the problem.

***oil light never came on and no error codes have flashed on the screen.

* Last updated by: zx1441xz on 11/29/2010 @ 10:41 AM *

I won't really have time to do anything with it this week but I will definitely keep you guys posted. Again- thanks for all the help!

Hey Hub...good one Bro.Let me ask ya somethin while yer here.If she has a hydraulic lock...which I totally could see happening...wouldn't the oil flow past the skirts and stuff and eventually "loosen up" so the engine could turn?IDK...just wondering.Would the valves and such be locked as well?And COULD the oil stay up top like that?(I've no idea how that top end actually works,except it does get a flow of oil in there...right?)(a valve seize?)IDK...you'd be the man on this deal.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/29/2010 @ 5:08 PM *

blue07; My 900 ninja's float stuck and gas filled the cylinders causing hydrolock. Exactly the same symptoms. Bike sat for a week before I could pull the plugs. It was still hydrolocked with gas, so I'm sure oil could stay up there.

I had NO idea.

so did you (he) try to push start IT and nothing as well ... I mean with all that rocking back and foward you might as well push a lil harder pop it and see what ya get then, but if you have never attempted this befor don't try it for the first time here. let someone who has done it do it for you. just in case it fires up and well you get me any way good luck with this one

I actually did try push-starting the bike (1st gear, popped the clutch but the back tire only slid). Tries it a few times. That's when I thought it was just the battery...

I know...it's a bit more "work",but how about removing the ignition cover and checking what I said in there.My tire will skid in first as well by pushing and dropping the clutch.It will appear like the engine isn't moving.And it's not really...BUT,it is "trying" to turn over...even if it won't.This is all without the key on of course.Turning that timing wheel bolt will show ya if she's "somewhat" free...or completely locked.Forward and backward.She should move a bit either way.If it won't move either way AT ALL...something is WRONG.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/30/2010 @ 9:31 AM *

Here is an example of hydrolock and what it can do. This connecting rod is from A 4.3 Litre chevrolet that was being used in a marine application. as you can see water got into the cylinder head and, LOCK!!! with pretty severe results.
[img]

Fellow riders,

I appreciate all the responses and suggestions. I am going to gracefully bow out and take it to the local Kawi shop. My question now is this- what do I tell them when I drop it off (or have them pick it up)? i.e. Do I need to tell them all the details of what happened or just tell them 'It won't start and I have replaced the battery'?

It's cool....use caution tellin em the WHOLE story.Unless ya know someone there fairly well who won't use what ya say against ya.If ya KNOW the mechanic..you could most likely tell everything(at the risk of having him think "geez...what a dumbazz"....(J/K LOL!!!)Otherwise....be careful what ya say.They're gonna figure it out soon enough anyway...IF they know what they're doing

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/30/2010 @ 5:21 PM *

Very good point

I will definitely keep you guys posted, wish me luck!

Hubster...towing the bike would do what..... (Well,guess it really wouldn't matter at this point,eh?)

"extra oil installed is nothing more than normal"......HE HE...ya crack me up Bra...."extree" is not 4 friggin qts!! Got lucky he didn't blow the head off!!!!8 qts....

As she sits now...she's PROBABLY gonna need a NEW MOTOR!God knows WHAT is messed up inside there.If all his piston rods look like that one in the pic....yeeeeshh!

I aint laughin at ya,zx,at your problem here.Sorry it's happening.But next time...you WILL allow the oil to flow back down into the pan and all BEFORE you check her again...and add,yes?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 11/30/2010 @ 7:57 PM *