Well-this is my problem."forever"my bike has gone through the cold start function(except when warm).Okay.Recently,she stopped doing that.And the idle setting began to change on me.I would ride for a bit,or even warm her up.....blip the throttle.She would drop back down to about 500 rpms above the set idle position,then after 5,10 seconds,drop down to the set position.Also,I noticed that after she dropped to the set position,if I closed the grip more,the idle would drop again slightly(not much mind you).Almost imperceptible,but just a smidgen.Okay-I checked my cables-seemed okay.Reset my return setting,and my throttle free play.All good-no pressure anywhere.However,the other day I went out to start her.Turned her on,cranked the engine-no start.Tried this one or two more times,then gave her gas while cranking.Nothing-but the FI error came on at that point.I didn't know to find the code number,you have to push both buttons at the same time to display it.So basically,I lost whatever code was in there.She finally did start,with a very rough idle,but then eased out and was fine.But still,the hanging above the set idle.And it doesn't do it EVERY time I blip the throttle(at idle)-but it is occurring with regular frequency.I'm bummed.I can't figure out what is doing this.I inspected my cables as I said.Checked the routing,all clear.Took the throttle cables out at the hand grip,inspected-seemed okay,no dirt or fraying there.Checked at the throttlebodies,seemed everything was okay.Cleaned and lubed em-still,when I go to start her,she cranks and cranks but nothing,until I OPEN the throttle as I'm cranking,then stop,turn off,then turn back on,and hit the starter again-then she fires right up,acts like she "may"be trying to do the cold start,but never really gets to that point-idles a bit above the set point,then drops down gradually to regular idle again.(like she's doing the cold start).Changed the air cleaner-no prob.I haven't messed with ANY settings.Haven't unplugged stick coils or anything like that.She runs like crazy-plenty of power,no stumbling anywhere.Idle is smooth.I did remove the PCIII thinking that might be causing the FI error.Went to my friend's house,then for a ride.Was only getting 29 MPG.(as opposed to 36 before with the PCIII).I couldn't ride her like that,knowing something is definitely not okay.Went home,reinstalled the PCIII-went for a ride.Performance was definitely perked up(as before)but now I'm pulling 41 mpg-70,80 mph in 6th.ANYONE have ANY idea what may be doing this(the idle deal?).And also,WHY would the FI error come on while cranking her and applying throttle?I didn't smell ANY gas fumes when this was occurring,like maybe she wasn't getting any fuel.Yet the fuel pump is coming on at ignition.Any thoughts on this situation guys?The only thing that I've done to her recently(within the last two or three weeks,is add Techron to the fuel about three times-which it says you can safely do.Thoughts?I removed the flies in 07,so that's not the problem.Even with flies out,she still ran through the cold start.And ANY ideas WHY my fuel milage would suddenly jump to 40's?It may go even higher-she was hovering at 41+(average mileage display).NEVER had that kind of mileage before.I'm stumped on this one!Battery voltage at start is 13-14 volts.Riding is 13.9-14.2 volts.If she dropped in voltage while trying to start her,would that trigger an FI error display?I don't think my bike will start at anything less than around high 11's or up.She'll crank okay,but won't fire at those levels(11's).

* Last updated by: blue07 on 7/19/2009 @ 1:09 AM *

Okay-I was able to reproduce the FI error-this time,I did check the code #.It was 23-Camshaft Position Sensor.Anyone have any problems with the sensor on their bikes?This could easily explain the weird idling behavior(maybe?). As well as the lengthy cranking behavior before actually starting.Apparently the ECU has to "take over" and "reprogram" the "firing" order of the last good running session.But once she starts-she runs fine.Even the cold start operation this morning seemed to be working,at least somewhat.Doesn't the air temp sensor have a role in how much cold start function is needed?The air temp right now is around 80 degrees F.So the engine is not "cold cold".

* Last updated by: blue07 on 7/19/2009 @ 11:45 AM *

Try this. I want to over ride the morning choke. I have my subs out, my bike does not start like it used to. I am in a test mode and now I need to act the sub. Therefore, I am going to crack the throttle open just a little more than the chock's old throw.

What I am trying to do is mimic more air intake. I want to see if my choke arm needs a slight rise from wear. So, to duplicate a poor start with no choke as I think it might be doing, I want to take the free-play out of my cable once I let the tach/speedo/fuel pump all cycle and now wait for the starter to hit.

Now that I have the throttle ever slow open so as not to send the pistons into the ram chamber, I have the mains just a touch more open is try that.

Slap you on the back of the head icon if you tell me you did not sync the throttle body since how many miles? 1000miles says she goes off the level is that is how much wear you are looking at with a moving screw under pressure.

I had em synced about a month ago.(though I didn't notice ANY difference in performance OR idle).Rather disappointing.
Okay,now,after finally getting her started(a few minutes ago),I just went back out and tried her again.Three cranks,she fired right up-just like the old days.But if I leave her overnight say,then the cranking deal occurs again-just like this morning(and the past several days).Once she fires,then anytime during that "running cycle"be it riding somewhere or whatever,she will start right up.Kind of strange that it sitting overnight would start the "no start" symptoms.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 7/19/2009 @ 11:54 AM *

Remove the cam position sensor clip off the cam sensor. 2.8v is peak voltage. You need the meter on the red with red cam wire, and the black meter wire with the blk/w wire off the cam sensor. Start the bike or crank the bike more like it... Peak output on the cam sensor is 2.8v and you try it a few times. If it does not hit at least 2.8v = Junk!

Awesome HUB-Another good experienced post!Thanks my man-I'll give er a go-can I use an analog type meter(one with the dial?And the two probes?)....also-do you think this sensor"being bad" could create the symptoms I previously posted about the "cold start" deal?And the strange idle thing?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 7/19/2009 @ 12:11 PM *

Yes, It could if the cam sensor checks out bad. Analog or digital meter will work. Set the meter to 10v AC output. The scale should read or say, spike to 2.8v on the cranking of engine.

If it starts up with a bad cam sensor throwing a code, it is strange it keeps starting and running. Maybe the TPS being open and the firing not in sync might have spiked a phantom code? I do not know.

But in your other post, you described "since I've owned it with the flies pulled" is it sounds like you need to crack the main throttle and act as the roller where it moves the main open. You might need more throttle opening.

So, dead cold, crack the main throttle a tiny bit open. I think it will start right up like normal. If not, then we are looking at that measured cam sensor as 2.8v, not 2.7v. What the number specs in the book is what you need to spec that part out to be.

If you want to see hard starting, I have the advancer video showing it may never start up it was cranking forever.

I'm gonna do that right now(just got home from work).The manual says that even if the cam sensor is bad,the ECU will "step in" and "position"the firing after 24 cranks.(to the last good operating setting).Kind of like the "last good configuration" mode on your windows based computer.Pretty cool.Also,if it happens to be a SERIOUS problem that will damage the motorcycle,the ECU will shut down any or all functions that could allow it to start(or run).So I'm goin out now to check the voltage-Thanks again HUB for your input in this-will post back shortly what's going on.

Okay-just finished with the reinstall of my bodywork-did not remove the cam sensor.Unplugged at the connector above the valve cover there(says to check there first)My results are-when I set the meter to ohms-I touched the red and black lead together to see my reading on the meter.This made the needle move all the way to the opposite side-(and this means?)I should know this.So............when I touched the red lead to the positive wire in the connector,and the black to the neg-the needle went exactly as before-all the way over smartly.(this is the sensor side of the circuit).Can anyone translate this for me?I THINK this means the resistance in the sensor circuit is showing EXTREME resistance-indicating an open? The reading should have been 400 to 450 ohms.HUB............?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 7/20/2009 @ 1:07 AM *

blue my fuse? Watt is this? You set the meter on A/C volts. Set it on 10v. You have the meter as a battery source. You want the meter to read the battery volts, but you want to read it in alternating current (A/C).

Say we look at the meter. We can click it to 10v to say 300v. If we set the dial at say 200v on the meter, we could literally stick that in the wall socket and read 120v out of the wall. The house is A/C. The output of the magnetic coil windings is like a magnet or a tiny alternator off the crank.

There we watch for 2.8v A/C come out of the two wires. So, read that page again. The jumper wire is for a resistance or who knows? I cannot run the meter through each wire to see if they have something tied in or it is just a convenience jumper wire or it is what you read is spike it. Sort of vague. But if you had a gook known other 14 around, you could run the meter off both bikes and if they pump out the same A/C volts, it is not the cam sensor.

So, testing is on you. Set the meter to A/C not an ohms check as if the one wire that is coiled around to create the magnet is broken or has melted and is touching the wire laid next to is is there is a short that way. Basically, you could check the infinity of the two wires that are really one wire say. Therefore, one meter is set to see continuity are the wires touching? The other is set at A/C 10v, crank the engine, watch the voltage of 2.8v A/C push out the two wires and now on to the next variable, we see 2.8v and it is the write wrist is say the problem you moved from stock is mod madding I modded my bike is now LOOK!

If the resistance reads 400 to 450 ohms, I would have to check mine with a meter. I'm out the door so I am going to be late in answering unless some can meter their ohm's resistance and if it falls in that spec, again, it is not the cam sensor if we have the same reading, basically.

Ya-understood.I didn't pull the sensor off cause I want to ride this week on my days off-Once she's started,she's fine.(for the day's riding period).But I will pull that sensor off probably next week and test as you said.I did check the "inline" voltage of the connector(on the "power"side)-it was I believe something like 8 volts.(dc voltage).Just wanted to make sure the connector was getting power-it was.(that was with the key "ON".)I'm pretty sure that sensor is history-call me stupid-but I ordered another one.As soon as it gets here,I'll run the "book"test-and remove the sensor to do that part)I know,kind of like closing the barn door after the horses have escaped!But I can't imagine a service code of 23 appearing just out of nowhere unless it's going or gone bad.The symptoms are matching to a tee what occurs on pg17-52 Trouble Shooting Guide.(no spark,spark weak)...............I may or may not ride this week-haven't decided yet if it would be okay to do that with this going on-but it's been happening now for at least a week-and when I did ride,I noticed NO problems with the engine-NOTHING.Once she fired,after that,consecutive starts were fine.Also HUB-you mentioned "remove the cam sensor clip".I honestly didn't see one on there-it just bolts right into the head there.The only "clip" is the connector to the harness above the valve cover.??????? Just for argument's sake-wouldn't reading the resistance from the two wires in the connector(sensor side)indicate whether the circuit completing the sensor unit are okay(by getting 400-450 ohms)as opposed to having the needle read all the way over?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 7/20/2009 @ 11:47 AM *

Dear Hubster-I know you're trying to help me-Thank you for all the help you offer-don't want you to stop.Your insight and experience are very important to me.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know ya clowned me a bit on the other post(about zx14 parts bin)there-it's cool-I had to laugh when I read the reference about "no return on electrical parts"LOL.(cam sensor in particular).It's all good. I did the procedure as the manual says-yes,measured the resistance of the sensor unit in ohms-it was WAY off the meter.Their answer is to REPLACE the sensor-no further testing to be done at that point(unless you want to check the voltage which I did at the connector with the ignition on).It was definitely getting plenty of power there-so I know that circuit is okay.Love ya man-keep posting answers for me if I ask,will ya?Your info and experience IS heeded.Ride safe(although I don't think I'm gonna try your takeoffs in first LOL)!!!!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 7/20/2009 @ 3:25 PM *

I was trying to loophole the spinning of the bike without using the "Peak Voltage Adapter." That way, we both try it together, come with the same action at the meter. It was another way to check and see if we match the idea without the Pv Adapter. That was the thinking. Since you are getting sensor, did you order a new o-ring? The memory on collapsed rubber could leak without a nice supple tight seal to it.

Lets go back to page 16-42. At the title, "CPSensor Inspection," count down 3-Dots. Did you infinity out the chassis grounds to dot?

And reading that meter resistance is crucial, I cannot state it enough. On the same "Inspection page," count down 1-star. I was in a post wear this guy wore out his wallet. He replaced a shit load of parts on his bike and everyone was going back and forth on the diagnosis. I mean, he swapped out a wire harness. The guy when through a lot of work.

It was not a bike I knew of or for that matter do I care. What the fun part is to chase the 3 basics on the computer bike. You are on one now. The guy swapped out an ECU. The only think he did not swap out but checked with a meter was that he said, "It was close enough."

Now, the challenge was to see what caused that bike not to start. As soon as he said: Just for argument's sake-wouldn't reading the resistance from the two wires in the connector(sensor side)indicate whether the circuit completing the sensor unit are okay(by getting 400-450 ohms)... And I said to myself; isn't that funny that he changed the wire harness, gave the odds are what are the odds there are new grounds on the wire harness and I have to point back to the crank sensor. So after all of the time and money spent(?); it was the crank sensor after all.

... as opposed to having the needle read all the way over? "Close enough?" I gave it the old... <<< Here I am on the guy's case laughing, "Close enough???"

<<< Here I am waiting for the exact number. Not "400-450 ohms" is not a number I told him.

So now, I'm in the generic and smack dis guy around is give me that swing shit 400 450 my ass! Here I am now >>>

<<< Ear icing on the cake I am, getting fat on the powdered puffs spidershit filled cream puffs.

Waiting for a number like 44999999999999 ohms <<< Is give it to me/you how to read it on the, SplitsVille call it like dis wit a "V" OLT! OHMS year gonna get tit! >>>

Say you bring in one number and only one number off that meter. That is how exacting you have to be on the meter read. You give me that, 400-450 ohmshit, you sound like, "Mr. Close Enough" GET TIT!

And let data be a lesson to ya whip her snap her! >>> That is the Meter Reader Messenger/Not Me on your CASE! >>>>

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/21/2009 @ 7:56 AM *

Ride safe(although I don't think I'm gonna try your takeoffs in first LOL)!!!! I'm on the safest bike going; as long as people keep their eyes on the road. Not my problem you looked over at me is Sea YA! Come catch UP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORYbD4mkzfQ

Well dang it Hub-the manual is the guide to the ohm reading-it says in there 400-460 ohms!.The needle didn't read 400-460 ohms.......it read ALL THE WAY pegged to the right side of the scale!Same as if you touch the two leads together.I mean,on the scale,it should stop at 400-460 ohms-right?Well.....................NO STOPPIE!Did it just like that pic on pg 16-48.FI error code 23-cam position sensor.?????????????????????????

Now find the ground on the main harness off the cam sensor. How is the integrity of the ground? Infinity or a resistance?

Page 16-42: "Cam Shaft Sensor Inspection:" Count down to last star or 3rd star down. READ to me watt it says about infinity.

You said I blew it to it. Tits data what day book says? Star says my mustangill banner? Did you blow it in year ear: The needle didn't read 400-460 ohms.......it read ALL THE WAY pegged to the right side of the scale!Same as if you touch the two leads together.I mean,on the scale,it should stop at 400-460 ohms-right?

After reading the last sentence on page 16-42... WATT SAY U?

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/21/2009 @ 11:31 AM *

Well Hub-(it's 16-48)!!LOL. Anyway-so I take the red probe,touch it to the positive lead in the connector(sensor side)and touch the black probe to the chassis ground?Then read the resistance?And also touch the red probe to the "ground"(negative)on the sensor connector,and the black probe to the chassis ground?Yes?Then read that resistance?

I think we are on the same page. I guess if your grounds are fine, that sensor is within spec of 400 to 460 ohms; you could not peak check because you need that boom box for it to peak, so without the peak, the choice was:

1. Buy the tool to check peak.
2. Screw the tool. I'll never use it again. Besides, is the sensor cheaper?
3. Take it to a dealer? Oh, and the labor rate is higher than the part? Duh!

Well-Okay.I'm certainly not gonna belabor this any further.I'll just say what I found when I removed the position sensor.Took it off the engine.Was sealed,naturally.Cracked open the casing there(couldn't resist).There is a magnet riding below the winding(well,one flat "freefloating?"piece-LOOKS like it's made out of brass maybe?Whatever it is,it's magnetic,and burnished in color(as well as "soft"metal).Anyway,it's able to move somehow against the lower plate,which is attached to some trick looking "molded in"contacts(which are soldered to a base plate(thick) within the housing,where the wires come in).The bar that comes down through the winding there sandwiches this plate in between(the bar can move apparently up or down-it just slid out from the winding core).Okay-the "plate" and the Magnet piece(which have a surface area for apparent contact)were COMPLETELY corroded on both surfaces.The bar plate was completely corroded as well.Started the bike with this removed(unplugged and off the bike).She started perfect-then,within 3 or 4 seconds-shut down with an FI code-code 23.That's all-thought I'd share that here.Ride safe you guys and gals!!!I've got a new sensor on it's way-we'll see.........Whheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!(me happy now).

* Last updated by: blue07 on 7/23/2009 @ 9:19 PM *

Do not ride! That thing flies out, you are going to take out parts. 20/20 hindsight is good thing you took a look see.

Man, that is now what I will do from now own. Yeah, I own the bike now and that code says replace me. Must be some backup to the failure is just for that reason. I see some code flash now, I just learned to remove and inspect that sensor.

Ataway you field fix ear you. Thanks, blue... Dis Place Codes! I mean, ROCKS!

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/24/2009 @ 8:52 AM *

I suspect it somehow got water in through the leads-yes,I did "car wash"her a couple of times-and yes,I did spray that area of the engine.Won't be doing that again.(and I'm usually very careful if I use a spray wand on her-just didn't realize that sensor was right there).