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Thread: Harley clutch problem

Created on: 08/10/20 01:45 PM

Replies: 15

alg8er


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Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 1:45 PM

My nephew has a 2009 Dyna Glide fat bob with a hydraulic clutch he bought last year. Rode it all season last year, no problem. This year,after about 50 miles or so, the bike starts creeping at stops in 1st gear. Can't shift to neutral so has to shut off bike and then he can shift to neutral. After starting, he can't get into first, so he has to start in 1st and it's pulling. Dealer has flushed fluid and bled, then 2 weeks later he brought it back in and they bled again. Mech said fluid had absorbed air and moisture and had bubbles. After bleed, same problem so they went over entire clutch system and said everything is good. They said the clutches need bleeding after winter storage because the hydraulic system is vented. Never heard of a vented hydraulic system in anything. Also they must be incompetent at bleeding if they have to do it multiple times in a season. Harley had recalls on hydraulic clutches on years after his bike and his isn't recalled. Problem was some soft parts were reacting with dot 4, and generating bubbles. Now they're telling him it's his aftermarket exhaust heating something on the right side of the motor causing the clutch fluid to boil, and now clutch has to be rebuilt, and a heat shield added. Hard to tell since i can't actually see bike, but it looks like everything clutch related is on left side. He hasn't changed anything, so all mods are as he bought it last spring, no problems last year, and he rode a lot. Any ideas?



Before your criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 2:19 PM

Yeah.Ditch the Harley while he can.;)Most of those techs run ya in circles spending yer money.I went in to have em fix a turn signal.A week later they said they needed to replace the complete harness...which I fell for back then.Over a 1K bucks.When I picked it up...first thing I noticed...turn signal wasn't working.I was so pissed I just went home and ended up fixing it myself.Can't remember what I did right now...but it was something totally simple.Maybe a bulb?IDK.Never went back.

I won't go into the serious 3" long scratch they put on the rear fender removing the seat.No...it didn't buff out.Virtually a new bike.Tech denied it.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/10/2020 @ 2:22 PM *

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alg8er


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 2:28 PM

Yeah. Sounds like guessing, but at least they are saying rebuild master, slave, heat shield, not new parts. I don't know Harley's enough to call them on it.


* Last updated by: alg8er on 8/10/2020 @ 2:29 PM *



Before your criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

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Hub


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 5:02 PM

https://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/ronnies/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hdmc&a=750&b=19&c=0&d=2009%20FXDF%20FAT%20BOY%99%20(GY)%20CLUTCH%20ASSEMBLY

12 ~ Is the spring diaphragm. This has to be flat upon a visual. If it goes to memory, or waves like a dish plate, not a flat piece of sheet steel, this causes drag. When they said; '... they went over entire clutch system and said everything is good.' ... is to recheck the wave of part 12. The trick to move the plate back flat is to add a steel plate next to a steel plate. This takes up the wear the steels and fibers that are rubbing down... moving the plate back to flat.

That, or replace the whole clutch pack... so the diaphragm is flat.


* Last updated by: Hub on 8/10/2020 @ 5:04 PM *



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alg8er


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 7:46 PM

Hub; makes sense, but why only when hot?



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Hub


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 8:13 PM

Heat expansion in general - What air gap is there between plates, all it takes is one plate touching the other. One plate moves, one does not. So the one that does not move can be dragged along with the primary or the constantly rolling [moving] basket 10. That input shaft has to stop spinning so no load on the trans gear's dogs into their slots. With the drag, it's hard to pull the dog out of the slot being loaded and creeping.



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alg8er


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 8:27 PM

Makes more sense than "vented" hydraulic, or heat from pipe. Stock pipe runs same path. Now he just has to convince them, or try to find better mechanic. Thanks Hub.



Before your criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

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Hub


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 8:45 PM

I've got your part number prices. $200 for the friction kit. $123/8 (15.35 each) for the steels. $17 for the primary oil. And the trick is to push the bottom of the primary gasket flush with the bottom and sides too. Wherever you can see the gasket sticking up or out. I learned the hard way and reused the gasket again just to test the pushing up and in; plus, if the gasket could go thru a few removals that still has the sealer intact around the paper. Haven't heard anything so I guess no leaks.

Nephew has the 1993 fxr evo. For some reason, I ordered your style plates. I thought I had the right part numbers; knew that wave plate was NLA; waited for the special tool to compress the plate flat to remove the C-ring; looked at the teeth pattern and had to return these I thought were for this bike. Come to find out the whole clutch friction and steels are also NLA.

Only out is to buy a Barnett clutch outer and pack for $500 bucks. Plus you have to R&R the harley center and press it into the Barnett basket. So being harley heading for the hole, the bean counters might nix the twinkie line, and you're engine family is next parts wise.

And another thing... every month for a few years, we'd cruise the swap meets and notice the twinkies on the floor. Heard the engine family up to 2008 had the tensioner system fail and it would take out the engine case. Ah, so this is why I saw those cylinders and heads for said family. In 2009 they revised the system and the deal was to replace the pre-09's with the updated screaming eagle tensioner system. The early years had a fuse that lit off after about 30k on the engine.



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Hub


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 9:04 PM

Makes more sense than "vented" hydraulic, or heat from pipe. Stock pipe runs same path. Now he just has to convince them, or try to find better mechanic. Thanks Hub.

You're welcome.
All the pipe needs is the air gap and we pin the 'fallacy' label on his back. Only venting is the cap so the rubber diaphragm receives 14.7 psi on top of the rubber, not under the rubber where the cover squeezes that closed and we more or less have that figured out.

Race prep is to take a zip-tie and pull the lever to the grip and let it sit overnight. You should feel a difference if the bubbles came to the top and out of the line.

I have a thermodynamics book given to me by a retired engineer that moved. Has some abstract that blows this guy out of the water. Mass, volume, this times that, divided by temp to get this. In other words, heat comes to a balance and that's all she wrote. So that air gap has shit to do with heat transfer to the next container squared by the mass and volume; sort of blow that smoke up his ass. I'm still on the first few pages.


* Last updated by: Hub on 8/10/2020 @ 9:06 PM *



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alg8er


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 10:04 PM

I had him try the zip tie last week before they bled again. He said no difference. I doubt enough heat could travel from slave to master to damage it enough for a rebuild. Looking at fische it looks like stock pipe has 2 heat shields but part #s aren't named.



Before your criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

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alg8er


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/10/20 10:08 PM

His master is at a really sharp angle. I wonder if the pickup is exposed to air while he's riding?



Before your criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

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Hub


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/11/20 8:25 AM

Doubt that much of an angle is causing it. Cover the paint and break the banjo bolt open and pull the lever to the grip. Just make sure you close the banjo before hitting the grip. That's one full stroke would purge the bubbles. But here is the real trick. Pull the derby cover off, pull the lever in, and now spin 12. If that breaks free, no clutch drag, the master/line/slave are bubble free.



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Hub


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/11/20 8:31 AM

You'd have to swing the bike over to the right side or the oil is going to come out of the derby obviously, and another obvious clue is... how many pipes are that close to that fallacy phantom heat, the factory called all bikes back due to the clutch bullshit call from some journeyman mechanic?



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alg8er


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RE: Harley clutch problem
08/11/20 2:00 PM

Ill have him try it. Now they're telling him his bike is overheating because he had oil changed by independent shop this spring, and they put in wrong oil. They're just siphoning his bank account now. I told him he needs a new mechanic, but this is his first harley and doesn't know who's good in his area.



Before your criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

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Hub


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Posts: 13671

RE: Harley clutch problem
08/11/20 4:31 PM

Bike looks well maintained, plus it's going on 12 years old and some dealers might send that old a bike down the road. For sure they sound green with the lame answers. Try a chopper shop that deals with harleys. Start weeding out the shops or tool up and learn the hard way. If the kid is mechanically inclined, it's a pretty easy bike to work on.



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ahhlou


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Moncton, NB, Canada

Joined: 05/21/17

Posts: 88

RE: Harley clutch problem
08/12/20 5:39 PM

My second bike is a 2010 Fatboy and have had my share of bad dealer mechanics, usually in small cities. I work on the bike myself, changed handlebar, maintenance, brake work, exhaust, etc. You have to find someone who knows what they are doing for the complicated work. The bikes themselves, for the most part, are very well made...



Although motorcycles have broken my bones, they have greatly improved my quality of life. A fair trade...

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