Super charger for the 14 soon!

"The 6th-gen VFR800 supercharger kit has been completed! Give us a buzz to get one for your ride.

Upcoming kits include the GSXR1000 (currently under development), the Hayabusa, the 2nd & 3rd-gen ZX10R, and the ZX14. If you have one of these bikes and would like a kit, let us know – strong feedback makes us work faster..."
http://www.aaperf.com/etc.html
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Nothing new. The ZX14 has been, and remains, a back-burner project with A&A. I wouldn't be surprised if they never got around to it.

What are the pros & cons of using a super charger vs. A turbo? Just curious. Please forward data to assist in making an informed decision.

* Last updated by: PioneerR1 on 11/7/2011 @ 4:03 AM *

Its really simple.

The turbocharger takes longer to generate boost, because exhaust gas is compressible. The compressor blades are powered by a turbine sitting in the exhaust flow. Its called spooling up. They are often easy to install, can be used with a wide variety of engines, are light, and easy to hide.

A supercharger is on boost very quickly. They are powered by (usually) a belt driven by the crankshaft. But it drags on the crankshaft slightly and robs a little horsepower. It is also more complicated to properly install, and to get enough boost, the blower housing becomes exponentially larger until you get ones the size of those used on the fasted drag cars on the planet.

* Last updated by: privateer on 11/7/2011 @ 4:53 AM *

I believe you meant the roots type blowers over the keith black type engines, priv.

1. Turbo blades off the exhaust pipes. There is your spooling, least hp drag.
a. Lots of heat. If there is some way to cool that hot air, she says, I enter the chamber hot, I have less dense air.
b. I have a spooling effect. I am like a child's fan blade on a stick. To make that fan move, I need to blow on it.
c. This lag effect is part of the turbo build up and heat up to the spool up.

2. Super charger off the crank. You can direct drive this unit, the air again is paramount you cool her down after the air cleaner, being driven fast is friction; here comes the heat build up. Cool her down. Now, how much drag on that crank and where is that HP compromise?
a. A lot of power is needed off the crank.
b. A free ride is the turbo.
c. A super charger is more instant and where do you draw the line with this HP draw off the crank?

3. Roots type interlocking fingers. Here is the cat's meow. This is [see above] the ultimate speed, no loss of air. Interlock your fingers together. See the air in between your fingers? See your fingers hold that air, it can't go anywhere? That is forced induction. The turbo/charger is pushing a bubble. This slams that bubble without give. Instant power like top fuel engines use the roots type.
a. N/A says, I suck in 14.7 is the constant.
b. I am a roots/turbo/super type blower. I need to blow over 14.7, meaning, once the chamber is zeroed out, I have to add more pressure over the 1 atm.
3. Bingo! I now can exceed the 1 atm and now I am 1.01 pounds of atmosphere, and the more I crank down to keep from blowing off out into the atmosphere, I can direct it into the engine, blow the head gasket out. Tear the steel studs out of the case that keep the cylinders down, like a 3 piece engine with head/barrels/case is closed.

No Hub.

A turbocharger runs off exhaust gas. A supercharger runs off the crankshaft (or something else that is run off the crankshaft).

The technology (roots, etc.) doesn't matter to the definition.

If it gets the power needed to compress air from something spinning in the exhaust flow, its a turbocharger.

If it gets the power needed to compress air from the crankshaft (directly - usual, or indirectly) it is a supercharger.

Hey Privateer,

Do you have any personal experience with zx 14 turbos? It appears you have extensive mechanical knowledge when it comes to this topic.

thanks,
Randy

* Last updated by: PioneerR1 on 11/7/2011 @ 5:51 PM *

I've never used a motorcycle turbocharger. I've had car engines running single and dual turbochargers, and while they share a lot in common with a motorcycle turbocharger, its not 1-to-1 apples-to-apples.

There are guys on this forum that have and do turbocharge and they know a whole lot more about the kits available to turbocharge a ZX14 than me.

The turbocharger takes longer to generate boost,

A supercharger is on boost very quickly.

In General what is said above is true in the Grand scheme of things but,,, with regards to the Motorcycle (zx14)
I would have to see Dyno Sheets to do a compare.

My bike is on Boost at 3500RPM. Where is the lag ? If a super charger makes Boost at 2500RPM,,,,well,,,, You will be Making Hot air before you leave the driveway lol.

The Newer dual ball bearing Turbos Spool up Fast. I'm sure both are great.

How much does a super charger for the bike weigh ?

Lets not forget, no matter how you boost the air your Motor will only take so much Boost before,,,,,,,,

* Last updated by: Romans on 11/7/2011 @ 5:53 PM *

I'm trying to agree with you, priv, but I can't say a jet engine is a roots type turbo. I can say the jet engine is a turbine is a turbo. It has veins that can backwash that bubble. A roots cannot. A roots is like D-C current. One way. The turbo is A-C current which moves both ways.

It's pretty hard to push an oil pump blade backwards if it fixed to a gear. That is more a roots type pump. The water pump blade is more a turbo blade. The turbo chops the air, or scoops it up, and the sand or dirt can sprinkle over or out of that scoop. The roots is more like a backhoe bucket. That has walls so nothing falls out. Sort of that kind of:

1. Blade pushed via exhaust ~ Propeller blade.
2. Blade pushed via fixed gear ~ Propeller blade.
3. Blade pushed via minimum air leak ~ Roots type.

I would think the roots is the super charger. The other two are turbo type chargers. Sea man tricks, priv, semantics.

Sorry Hub, your gibberish cannot redefine the definition.

My definitions are old school. You can't even bring a turbine jet engine into the discussion, its not even related to the issue.

This is why I so seldom enter discussions with you, because your level of delusion is so severe its basically a waste of time, most of the time.

But let me give you the exact definition, old school style. It will explain why you are confused.

A supercharger is an air compressor used for forced induction of an internal combustion engine.

The greater mass flow-rate provides more oxygen to support combustion than would be available in a naturally aspirated engine, which allows more fuel to be burned and more work to be done per cycle, increasing the power output of the engine.

Power for the unit can come mechanically by a belt, gear, shaft, or chain connected to the engine's crankshaft.

When power comes from an exhaust gas turbine a supercharger is known as a turbosupercharger[1] – typically referred to simply as a turbocharger or just turbo. Common usage restricts the term supercharger to mechanically driven units.

Let me break it down. I screwed up my own out of the box and walk IThink:

Jet engine is a fixed blade on a bearing. Turbo blade photo that Romes sent in, is on a fixed bearing. The roots and supercharger blades are fixed to a gear.

The jet engine/Rome's turbo blades are air assist.
The roots and superC blades are gear assist.

Therefore, gubberish says, we are looking at two distinct air blower blades.

My definitions are old school. You can't even bring a turbine jet engine into the discussion, its not even related to the issue.

My school says geared is one, air is the other push me in past the N/A (1 atmosphere). Either Turboolade, or SuperCogged. Get it now, J.C. Penny? Key rot tea kid, canvas beltootight?

* Last updated by: Hub on 11/8/2011 @ 9:55 AM *

Privvy, show me a belt on the turbine/turbo blade... "You are too easy."

Are you serious? Privateer wins this one hands down, sorry Hub. Maybe you should forget trying to enlighten us dullards, grab a job at C.E.R.N, and help them out with their search for the Higgs Boson. But wait! That's electromagnetically propelled, so would it be a true supercharger or a turbo? I'm gonna go look for the belt. Privateer, can you help me out here?

You mean one of those 7 mile lone atom splitters? Accel-0-meter? OK, hot shot, you've got the floor. Lay out a simple blower with a spinning blade off and exhaust like it has to wait for air to blow, correct? The other is gear driven with two air catchers meeting in the middle. Begin your abstract... I just pushed the button... And poof... IS Magic!

Zee,
You think about this.

1. Guys are running stock parts in their turbo.
2. Guys are not using radical maps or fueling to compensate for a faster event.
3. The turbo does not close off the manifold like a blower does.
4. Blower is direct air like it is direct drive.
5. Turbo is air assist. It can only blow out what the engine did.
6. When the blower keeps pushing air, it rises above atmosphere.
7. When the turbo pushes air, it can only fill up the cylinder chamber, the pipe it was brought into, meaning, this can be pushed back out, unlike the blower that sits on top and there is no out between intake valve and the guillotine(s).
8. Therefore... Finish the abstract so the concept shows the difference...

http://youtu.be/MGdg2Fd2WQY

I'm right about this because everyone in the auto and motorcycle industry agrees with me (Hub is neither), because its what they have called these things since before World War 1, since we have had warplanes with turbochargers and warplanes with superchargers and THEY knew the difference, and because I grew up with this stuff and learned whats right and what isn't.

I reiterate, no amount of gibberish changes the definition of the word "supercharger" nor the word "turbocharger" as they have been accepted in the last 50 years.

By the way, CERN wouldn't have anything Hub could do, those are REAL scientists.

8. Therefore, you want a blower on the 14, not a turbo.
9. Turbo lags. From beginning to end, it pushes in 14.7 on the upper end.
10. However, with turbo, it reads a speedy 14.7.
11. The blower is instant. That means, it overrides 14.7.
12. The turbo has too many places for air to push it back, plus did you listen from about 4:03 to 4:22, or there about, that detonation is hello? Sticks pretty much with 14.7 on the linear.
13. As opposed to a blower that blows itself off the manifold; we say backwash. They strap those down because they override 14.7.
15. ASs opposed to a turbo does not even blow off Uncle Bob's-hit and miss with your accelerator magnetic abstract group.

A. 14.7 all day long. For we are down to the absolute. Go and find your CERN, ask if they know the difference between a 1ATMO blade and an overrider of the 1 atm on the rootside.
B. No, I am going to bring in one number now. You now will tell me you'll bring in 14.7 again. That is to say, no you won't bring in the 1 atmosphere to this screw job. You don't see it, do you? Instant double bubble your pleasure, double your fun is a roots for instant leave a fender. No, you'll lag that fender still being in the 14.7 turbo of it.
C. E.R.N knee takers? Does the jib walk now?
D. For dick my suck. Did not the suck seed, you plant that 1 atm is the turbo constant.
E. For excuse me, I smell donuts an bacon.
F. For fucaduck, there is 2 a difference.
G. EEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeee HAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

* Last updated by: Hub on 12/29/2011 @ 9:06 AM *

Video, lots to add with regards to the link above but would take me forever to put into words. I will make a few points.

1) With regards to our bikes ONLY, Turbo is a very simple power add on. Not complicated as suggested in video. Both systems can be complicated when pushing the limits.

2) Weight. Turbo set up must be lighter ? They have gears and belts pullies off crank etc. Turbos have a oil line to turbo for cooling.

3) Weight location.(Bigg-E) Turbo, Low and up front where it should be. Supercharger High & off to one side. Boooo

4) Turbo Power, All up to you as to the where and when.

Big turbo, Lag is present as your are waiting for that bad boy to spool up makes for a bad dual purpose bike IMO.

Smaller Turbo puts you in boost early in the rpm. Lag is not present.

Example Normal Riding;

My bike makes No Boost and operates as a Normal Zx-14 up to 5000 RPM when riding highway or whatever, then 1 lb boost comes in, whether I want it or not. Smooth no Jump nothing scary what so ever. If I did not look at Boost gauge I would never know boost was present. Pull is even. Not like a two stroke hit which is what I previous thought.

Hard Riding;

Ride these bikes and you can not tell there is a Turbo Until,,,,, Go Deep into throttle and BOOST comes in at 3500RPM and pulls Non Stop stretching your arms Until You say Mercy. 5200RPM My bike is at full boost and pulling HARD.

5) Super charger, your gear set up decides where and when and how much.

These are all points that have made me rethink my opinion on the street bike turbo vs supercharger set up. It's now a race to who can make 8lbs of pressure the fastest and smoothest.

I'm only posting this as the info most often refers to Hard Core set ups when comparing the two systems like in the video. Just Wanted you guys to know how boost works in my turbo set up is all. No Drama, anyone can pilot these bikes Cheers

Zee, Help me here...

Romes, If a blower is so seal proof, you can't tell if the boost is on as you say; it sure sounds like one N/A kind of fast entry on the linear. Your intake opens or say when it is staying open, it is going to push like you close your lips on your breath you brought in no more no less than atmosphere.

If I put a shop vac on the blower side, you open mouth, fill it, then close [I hit the switch]? No matter how wide I open my mouth, and close it like a valve, it funnels to the 1 amt. I can push a blower off all belted down, I am sure I can fill your post-ram, pre-ram, the tubes you are bringing that air in from; I do not blow off turbos, but shit damn, can I blow a blower sky high.

If that guy that privvy quoted can't see two different numbers, there is your difference. Priv won't come back, tit blows his theory away this was the suck you in theory. I want you to bring in a number the valve is telling you, I'm going to purge you keep cranking me up. There is no power behind if you left that much of a gap of air space.

It makes sense to me about two types of air space to fill a void, meaning, once it stabilizes. The roots runs liner, and there up top it tries to keep filling void with limited back pressure. Make sense you are still in the 14.7 linear run at it, Romes? Can't be running like a roots with a few pounds in the one suck from a dead start is it overrun, like it stomps over 14.7 and keeps adding number on the liner go BOOM! It got lost in the timing; time for the next leap in that one blown cycle.

I don't care if it is belt lash, or gear lash, these are millisecond moves. Time that air wrong, don't you think something went wrong in one stroke?

Maybe you should forget trying to enlighten us dullards, grab a job at C.E.R.N, and help them out with their search for the Higgs Boson

In the italics, one of them dare Brock Bustears deleted a quote with a ha-ha-ha icon. But, here I added the 'bump' for I'm tying to bump an atom for miss tear one post tear. Getting the last laugh are we? Corn C.E.R.N, the hubbishasay point to say?

Hey man, we dulls are here. We wait for your penultimatexplanation of select blade, your circumference sea. You one hit wonder. You got nut inn for me is WOT!