^^^ Absolutely correct. -bg

IDK if you noticed the road surface in those Mulholland rides....check it out.Look carefully at WHERE guys are dumping.You look there...street tires...street bikes.Gordon is absolutely correct...it IS the bike...(tires).Virtually every one of those get offs are in the same spot....same lean....same everything.I don't blame the rider for all those.Watch the frontends.Almost every one of em washes out.FIRST...before they highside or whatever.Guys are coming into or out of a turn...then blam...they slip.THAT's why trying to haul the 14 around like a literbike just doesn't work.And why I asked about speed in cornering.

I don't recommend it but fun can be had relatively safely if you have the skills
Dragging Elbows

Road surface, skills, maybe the bike itself (a big maybe) could be the reason the others crashed but these guys dragging elbows have better body positioning and look more confident.

*The second video for sure (the guy dirt riding into that rock) is lack of skills. You can tell he lost faith mid corner, thought he couldn't make it and stood the bike up. It's a classic. Everyone here (including myself)has probably done it.

* Last updated by: dragking on 12/20/2012 @ 7:14 PM *

Nice video Drag, very smooth throttle control. Watch this one on Mulholland Drive ans see if you can figure out where he went wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBOhQ_WZ3cU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Why he crashes is puzzling, he's got good lane position and his body position looks fine, he's hanging off to the inside with a knee down, looking into the turn ahead but then at about :34 he abrubtly pulls his knee in close to the bike, there's a stream of sparks from his left foot peg and he tucks the front and loses rear wheel traction as the bike levers the rear tire up.

Notice his throttle control is smooth right up until he loses the front end.

Look at his throttle hand at :35, finger poised over the front brake lever. Did he panic and pull the brake lever tucking the front?

Street tires at their limit.That one spot...check it out....almost all the guys are dumping right there.A lot anyway.There's something with that road surface.....IDK what it is natch...but something.Can't tell me it's rider error in all those.You called it right Kruz...good line...leaned in well...good throttle.Those front tires are washing out.Why do think that cam guy picked that spot(to film)...over all the other ones on that road.If the rear was going...you'd see more highsides happening...

"he abrubtly pulls his knee in close to the bike"...probably because he FELT the front slipping and wanted to try and save his knee.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/22/2012 @ 8:11 PM *

Really hard to tell we can only speculate so here is my wag (wild ass guess):
I feel like he held to the brake for too long. It should had been on the throttle 1 maybe 2 seconds before he started to loose the front. The others dragging elbows were on it early. It could be that he had the forks compressed all the way or close and hit a small bump (that may be why you see him tucking his knee in).If he was on the gas early the impact of that bump would have been lessened and the suspensions would have had enough room to sort it out. NO?
I'm not sure, it's really hard to tell. The only common thing with all those crashes is how long those guys stay off the throttle.

The common thing there is WHERE they're dumping it.His throttle was fine IMO...neither speeding up or slowing down.That definitely stabilizes the bike.Look closely at the road surface right along there...see all those skid marks?Same as in that other vid where the guys going into that 's'...there's a couple of 'patches' of different colored road surface..right where he dumps.We don't know anything about what kind of tires they're running...or what shape those are in.That guy dragging elbow...we KNOW he's using track tires....and he made that one turn in the other video fine.Would he be making it with street tires?IDK....But he's definitely leaned in like at a track.Can you lean in and carve like that with your typical street tire?Honestly...I doubt it...you run out of edge.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/22/2012 @ 8:20 PM *

Another Crash
Read the description. Compressed suspensions!
*Also that girl didn't have proper body position. On a sport bikes, if your toes touch before your knees, you don't have correct body positioning.

Another Crash 2
This has street tires, he was fine, even made it post apex over that patch BUT he made an adjustment (straightening the bike), readjusted again and got back on positive throttle....

He you look carefully at all those crashes, you'll see a lack of decisiveness, minor adjustments etc. Plus none of them are saying their tires were not good enough etc. There seems to be a lot of good racers in the are, you would think that they would tell those guys to upgrade their tires before attempting stuff like that. A lot of the crashers have their heads over the center and their body hanged out. The guy from another crash 2 should/could have hanged off a little more in my opinion, his elbow would have been down. Go back and check the guys dragging elbow, perfect body position and throttle application. Their heads are out and low not in the center. They may be running better tires but they are also better riders.
*That patch is right there before the apex, This is why in my opinion, most of the crashes we see happen there.

* Last updated by: dragking on 12/23/2012 @ 12:35 AM *

That first vid Kruz put up, His BP is what got him in trouble if you look his head was in line with the center of the bike. Sure he had a half a cheek off, but most of your weight is from the waist up not down. His head should have been where the inside mirror is. Inside elbow dropped and chest on the side of the tank, He was twisted up something I've been guilty of but have worked my butt of all season to correct. That outside arm should've been wrapped around the tank. He ran out of sidewall. If he would've shifted just I say 4" to the inside of the bike it's lean angle wouldn't been as severe and it would've been on a fatter portion of the tire. He's almost touching engine cases before he loses it. Of course this is my opinion, but my riding coaches within my trackday org (TPM) drill this into your head.

Anyone live near Mulholland Drive? I gotta ask two serious questions after watching some of these videos, how many riders die on that road every year and where is local law enforcement? I mean I could grab a ticket book and head up that road as a LEO and not stop writing citations til I ran out of paper. That place looks like a death trap, why hasn't it been shutdown?

* Last updated by: Kruz on 12/23/2012 @ 3:00 PM *

I've been there..on a Harley.There's police up there...guess they just let guys have their fun...long as no one really gets outta hand.I'd imagine there have been some fatalities over the years...plenty of get offs...that's for sure...you can see most of em are fairly minor though.The Ortegas(out by Elsinore)...same type of road...but those guys pass all the time where they shouldn't be....it is quite dangerous on that hwy.

I've been there..on a Harley.There's police up there...guess they just let guys have their fun...long as no one really gets outta hand.

Why can't we have cool LEO's like that around my neck of the woods?

Well one thing is they ain't going all that fast, what would you guess, maybe forty to fifty for the really good riders? Our twisties in North Texas are much faster, 70 to 90 mph for the average stuff and much higher for the big sweepers. LEO frowns upon this activity!

Well...yeah.With guys like me running off the road...you can see why,yes?

Grn, I found one of your earlier vids here....lol!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpOFimB7ZA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

....and here's one of Grn running from Montana State Trooper in a turbo mustang....enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te0V71sGoxA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You missed the one where I'm 'hangin off".....LOL!To corner better...ya know!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/23/2012 @ 9:24 PM *