Im a bit torn between getting a full muzzy m14 system vs a brocks. I like the single out...and I read the exhaust shootout thread. My question is did they tune each different exhaust to get their #s or did they use the same map? I like Muzzy as I have a cf one on my zrx but the alien head thing looks kinda cool and some seem to say the brocks is a better system? Any PERSONAL experience with the m14 vs brocks with a proper tune on each?

Brock's had dyno charts comparing the same bike with different exhausts on their website for a while, but moved them off somewhere. If you dink around long enough you can find the link.

The Brock's Performance CT-Series (Single and Duals) make more horsepower than any Muzzy pipe on the same machine, but its not earth shattering.

The Alien head on a stock engine doesn't make sense. Its too freaking loud and doesn't make near as much horsepower as the CT-Series exhaust systems do.

Muzz Man will back up his pipe against anyone's. If you like the Muzzy and you lean that way go for it. If you want loud, Brock it if cool loves the neighbors.

I've known Rob Muzzy for a long time. Back when he was a big Kawasaki fan. Muzzy stuff has been on most every bike I ever owned, including my ZX14. Just not his exhaust.

The thing with Brock Davidson is, he developed and tuned his CT Series exhaust specifically for racing. Then he made them quiet enough to avoid hassles (mostly) on the street.

Muzzy hasn't raced a Kawasaki in a decade.

I've heard out of the mans own mouth that he will put up his pipe(s) up against anyone. With that kind of black art behind him, I'm pretty confident he seems pretty confident so it's a draw as far as fair is fair goes.

I doubt Rob said that, but ok. You can find the dyno charts online, the M14 exhaust system has never achieved CT-Duals horsepower levels on bone stock ZX14s.

At least not only any dyno chart I've seen, including when Brock's Performance website had M14 and TiForce dyno charts (all done on exact same bike) and they all lagged behind the CT-Duals.

But like I said above, on the street, its not worth arguing about, just buy what you like and be happy.

Next time you talk to Rob, tell him John Hamilton said he hasn't raced a Kawasaki in 10 years at least, whats up with that? He used be Green through and through.

* Last updated by: privateer on 7/21/2011 @ 5:03 PM *

i really prefer the look of a single out... so the dual out brocks doesnt do it for me. I would think either way some of the crazy heat on the legs would be reduced with any full exhaust/ decent tune. And the muzzy is quite a bit cheaper as well. What about maps? Does Muzzy supply good maps to use with a powe commander...and is the PC5 worth it over the 3? (Im so behind the times coming from a carbed zrx lol)

The CT-Series has a CT-Single which is sweet, too. At least one or two members of this forum have installed them, and like them as I recall.

Brock Davidson's maps are based on his drag strip racing efforts with the ZX14. It got refined over the course of several years, both on the dyno and at the track. He just tweaks them slightly to give them street manners.

I ran his map for 2 years, and just recently replaced it with the F.A.I.C. map. Jeffo has also put a couple years into tweaking his ZX14 map as well.

So whatever you choose, the starting map that Muzzy or Brock gives you will serve you just fine.

Check the "going for a pc5" thread. I would get whatever I can find cheaper. In my case it was the pc5!

* Last updated by: dragking on 7/23/2011 @ 4:52 AM *

Which section is this thread in? I found one "Going with a PCV" but don't see what you are talking about.

* Last updated by: privateer on 7/23/2011 @ 6:20 AM *

oesn't make near as much horsepower as the CT-Series exhaust systems do.

The A-head is only a few less-----but that is enough to matter to me. If you buy the best, you don't worry about upgrading.

I would go with a CT single or a CT meg, markaria---if you like a single. Look at the dyno charts. The dual was the strongest for the 14 but only by 1 or 2 on top. The bottom looked more significant.\\I have never seen charts for the CT meg. Make sure yiou consider weight too. The weight dif between the dual and single might mean as much as the small dif in power on top. Just speculation on my oart----I'm not in the market for a zaust but if I was it would be one of the CT systems, I think.

Akrapovic Evolution is another one I would consider. trust in the crowd pleasers.

* Last updated by: Rook on 7/23/2011 @ 12:10 PM *

I am a rabid CT Series fan. The performance of my 2008 leaped so far forward after I installed my ceramic coated CT-Duals and the piggy Brock Davidson sent me pre-loaded with their street-tweaked track map, I was really impressed.

I mean, it was obvious to the casual observer the bike had gained significant horsepower.

But Muzzy makes good stuff too, and even though they don't race Kawasakis (and haven't for over a decade) their exhausts are good too. Brock has a diary on his website of the development they did with the ZX14 for drag racing.

But a M14 can't compare to the sound CT-Duals emit when you are in the technical stuff with the rpm high working 2nd and 3rd gear up and down, wondering just how many S-es this series of curves contains.

Privateer. I was referring to his last question:

and is the PC5 worth it over the 3?

*the thread I was actually referring to is :pcIII or pcv. I stand corrected.

* Last updated by: dragking on 7/23/2011 @ 7:13 PM *

There are a few differences between the PC3 and the PC5 but mainly in the advanced modes where PC3 needs the multifunction hub if you want to make gear specific changes. PC5 has that built in.

PC3 lets you operate as follows:

• 1 map (basic) - for all cylinders for all gears,
• 4 maps (advanced) - one map per cylinder, but it will be the same for all gears for that cylinder,

PC5 lets you operate same as PC3, and you don't need the multifunction hub:

• 1 map (basic) - for all cylinders for all gears,
• 4 maps (advanced) - one map per cylinder, but it will be the same for all gears for that cylinder,
• 6 maps (advanced) - one for each gear but applies to all cylinders, or
• 24 maps (advanced) - one for each cylinder and gear

The differences between the ignition modules (3 v 5) are similar to PC as above.

I hope this helps

* Last updated by: russty on 7/24/2011 @ 6:16 AM *

russty,

Correct me if I am wrong, the software is nothing more than a shutter offer, turner onear, meaning, that grid block is a measure of time from X to Y. That again means it says to me and here is where to show me wrong is the crank to TPS opening.

I am a crank speed and I open the throttle to get there up and down regardless what gear I am in. You cannot get into any gear map in a 14 ECU, or show me you now have a kit-ECU that can perform that as you say. Correct me if I am wrong, but did you mean you can use an option outside as to what gear you want some option to happen inside the PC, then that is another story.

WATTsaye?

What I wrote was only about the powercommander. I know nothing about the 14ECU, wish I did.

with the PC3 out of the box (basic mode), you can only have one map only. flip it into advanced mode and you can have one map for each cylinder. If you want to also adjust ignition, go buy the ignition module and add it on to the PC3.

If you have a PC3 and you want to adjust fuel differently for each gear, then you add the M hub, and interface to the GPS. Beware, you don't get to set a different map for each gear, you still have one base map (or 4 in advanced mode) and you get the ability to provide a trim for each gear which I think is additive, meaning that "no matter what the base map says, add (subtract) the gear specific trim value stored in the MF hub". Same applies to the ignition module.

What I see with the PC5 doco is that you can select from multiple advanced modes, so that if you want, you can have a different map for each cylinder AND each gear, so 4 cylinders x 6 gears = 24 maps. Now I know I'm struggling to get one map to a sweet spot, not sure I want to try 24 of 'em...

Now remembering that the PC adjusts the signal from the ECU, the PCV offers more variables.
What's missing of course is the ability to for finer adjustments on the 0-2% range where most street riding is done. Sound wrong? If you don't have the LCD for real time monitoring then do this next time you are taking off from a set of lights...

• Get rolling, and accelerate gently (you'll still leave the cages in your dust)
• change into 2nd gear and keep accelerating
• before you select 3rd, hold in the clutch (but keep the throttle position)
• take note of where the tacho needle goes to. Mine goes no higher than 7000rpm, usually less

When you next have the bike plugged into the PC software, run the engine at the same RPM and note the throttle position. Mine is only just at 2%, meaning that on my gentle accelerations, I use LESS than 2% throttle. For me a 2% throttle results in a reasonable rapid getaway (in street terms, not drag, obviously) So trying to set fuel trim at 1% means knowing that the PC is going to interpolate the values based on the 0% and 2% trims on a straight line basis.

Make sense?

I'd love to see 0.5%, 1% adjustments. Sounds silly, but this thing has so much grunt that I don't need any more than this to make a clean acceleration and easily get away from cages. (Are you listening Dynojet?)

According to how I read it, whatever you plug in and set, the math is going to correct your other ignition or gear settings if you jump out of range. That is why not too many people are eating pistons with all the mapping. No over heating with all the bad maps or should I say torque range changers.

Basically that is all you are doing, correct?; spark times rpm = Final Trim.

1. Did you lift? Trim that math map and did you (-) a block too far?
2. Blocked your ass if that trim goes past the (+) you are out that iridium.
3. Are we back to square one about the base map is your call and the two machine proms call them/re-tweak your tune in the math of it. OK, if you say 24 squares times you win a square you lose a square. 23 more maps with the right number your map is for shit... OK, that one number you scotched.

Make sense? Bike still runs with the re-trim out the injector; off throttle-sustained throttle- you turned all WOT say ye?

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/24/2011 @ 11:29 AM *

LOL on the PC5. I've had my PC3 for over 2 years, and it works great, and I never have to miss a minute of riding time messing with it.

If I drag raced, or track day-ed a lot, the PC5 would make sense because you can auto-log easy and build a map suited to your track excursions.

Otherwise, its a total waste of money.

In other words, you can add more trim on lift, but now you are at that same trim or over-trimed on throttle apply, correct? You have to feed that higher or say the richer trim as if you were in the hard setting. But, hard means lean if I read that AFR saying some funny shit to me.

If we set the code, 3-43 at the top of the page. Paraphrase; 'we are going to send you to a safer mode so you can get that sensor fixed or some wire not input/outputting, we put this (((FI))) says "Fucking Idiot" is you, but you can see that in the man you will have some ignition going on so we don't give you all that power so we limp you lean.'

See how you load up those iridiums?

let's see... who here has seen 'FI' displayed on his gauges? Not me. So the fucking idiot isn't on this keyboard.

Sometimes Hub makes himself one, but he isn't really. He just can't avoid doing it to himself is all. It is usually mildy amusing.

Anyway, you are right, we don't get F1 or any codes, we don't have our bikes spread all over the kitchen table so that means we are riding them, and frankly he calls others what he himself is. Which is how it usually is.

And Brock's CT-Duals will eat a Muzzy M14 for lunch, on the exact same bike, on the dyno or the dragstrip. And no amount of gibberish gobblygook is going to change that fact.

Thanks privateer ;)

tell me about the volume of the CT duals... I love the quietness of my stock system, but could easily tolerate the sound of the yoshi slipons. I love the looks and the reduced weight. but the price...

How does the volume the CT duals compare? Any idea? I've trawled youtube, there's lots of vids, I can get the tone but not the volume as all the cameras auto adjust the sound levels so they all come across at the same volume.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the topic...

Well, first, I love the sound. Its throaty and solid, and I've had local police pull up beside me at stoplights and give me the thumbs up. Well, maybe it was the finger, but close enough.

No law officer has ever given me a second look except for one time, but he decided he had other fish to fry and broke off following me with his window down.

And the sound when you are working her through the S-es and hairpins is just awesome.

When I'm bagged up and traveling, I wear earplugs usually, and I can still hear them but they sound real quiet. Good earplugs, I guess. Doesn't ever bother me when I'm without earplugs, though the Harleys I go past do.

My only regret is I've yet to stand by the side of the road and hear myself, if you know what I mean.

heres a clip of mine at 160mph

http://youtu.be/Oi4Js7P8tcc

This idiot codes all day long... Lets see... Runs fine this way... Runs fine that way... I gotta be an idiot! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeee!!!