2013 14r, 11,500 miles. Felt like the clutch was slipping when I left for my last trip out to South Dakota, progressively got worse during the trip. Got home, pulled the clutch plates and fibers, measured a little under tolerance so I replaced them all, and installed Brocks kit for slipper delete and stronger springs. Might have improved a touch, might have been placebo. Something is acting as if the clutch is still slipping. If the bike is in neutral, key off, I can spin the rear wheel easily by hand, so I don't think alignment or axle is hanging up. The rear rotor isn't hot after I pull in from a ride, so I don't think that is dragging. Even tried a short run with the clutch slave cylinder effectively disconnected, no improvement. Earlier this year I replaced hydraulic lines (brakes and clutch) with stainless and new fluid (Castrol SRF). Also used new oil (Rotella T6, same as I have used before) when I rebuilt the clutch.

When riding the bike, anything past 3000-3500 rpms incurs noticeable slipping, the RPM's climb, but the bike does not move forward like it used to. Clutch does not engage right off the bar when you start releasing the lever like it used to, and the shift lever requires much less force to engage a gear, it practically falls into place with hardly any clutch lever pull. The bike may be vibrating more than it used to, not sure. Any ideas on what this might be, or where I should start looking?

First of all, what was the last work done on the bike prior to South Dakota trip?

Let me guess....you just installed Pazzo levers.

If not, have a look at the stock clutch lever. Is the bushing stuck? Do you feel a click in the lever? It's possible the bushing got dirty and stuck pointing to the right. That will hold the pushrod into the master cylinder. You'd be riding the clutch all the time.

At the beginning of this riding year (March), all was well with the bike. I did install aftermarket levers, but they are ASV shorty's, not Pazzo's. I rode the bike with them for a couple of months with what seemed like no issue.

June rolls around, bike starts to feel like it isn't pulling quite as hard as it used to.

Prior to the trip in late July, I fitted convertibars (as well as the longer brake/clutch lines). Replacing the lines and the fluid did not improve what seems like the clutch slipping. Original fluid was a year past the recommended change date, and fairly dark.

After this, but still before the trip, I measured the clutch pack stack height and found it lower than what the manual calls for. I replaced the outermost steel in the clutch pack (which measured 2.3mm) with a 2.9mm steel, thus bringing it back to target. Might have gotten a touch better, might not have. I then left for the trip.

Came back from the trip, replaced all of the steels and fibers, and installed Brock's kit for slipper delete and stiffer springs (all 6 spring spacers). Didn't help. Put the factory levers back on as this setup with a shorty lever kills my fingers when in slow traffic. At this point, clutch still feels like it is slipping.

Experiment I did last week: Unbolt clutch slave cylinder. pull clutch lever against bar, ziptie. press the insert back into the slave cylinder while allowing the fluid to go back into the reservoir. Reattach slave cylinder to bike, making sure no pressure is applied that would attempt to disengage clutch pack. Took the bike for a quick trip down the road with the intent of removing the clutch lever/master/slave cylinders from the equation. clutch still felt like it was slipping.

Helpful, or muddying the waters?

Each time I removed and installed the levers, I made an effort to align the bushing with the rod, as well as cleaning the old lube and reapplying fresh stuff. I will go pull it apart quick and check again though.

Lever travel has always been smooth. Pulled the lever off the bike, bushing moves freely and was aligned correctly. Also attempted to install it with the bushing not allowing full insertion (the wrong way) and with the bushing aligned (correct way). There is a noticeable difference between the two, I do not believe I messed this part up originally.

* Last updated by: TigerFire13 on 9/17/2016 @ 9:23 PM *

How about oil ? Have you changed brands or type ? Does teh lever feel normal? If you have a manual, I would just pull it apart and very carefully reinstall as per the book...

Oil has always been Rotella T6 since the day I bought it second hand, and is also what I ran in my previous bike. The lever doesn't have that same feeling it once used to, it used to start engaging right when the lever was releasing from the bar. Now it must be about a fourth of the total travel before it starts to engage and you feel the pull against the wheel. I do have the service manual, what exactly are you suggesting I pull and reinstall? The master cylinder?

One side at a time...It sounds to me Check the roller bearing push piece that the rod presses against PArt number is 13116A

KAwasaki rep told me they have experienced problems with that piece..If that or teh roller bearing facing it is the problem, warrantee may cover it. If you want to discuss my particular problem you can callme or I can call you .

* Last updated by: chrly on 9/17/2016 @ 8:38 PM *

It just dawned on me that this is almost identical to the problem I experienced..Need to explain on phone tho cause noone believes it :)

I also am curious about how close our serial numbers are.. Mine is JKBZXNF14DA003747

* Last updated by: chrly on 9/17/2016 @ 9:26 PM *

JKBZXNE10DA012947

It's a little late tonight, but is there a time after say 1pm tomorrow that would work to call you? I copied your number, feel free to edit/remove it.

I may be on the bike but I will watch for your call and get back as soon as I can, in case I miss it.

Pop the oil cap off. Where is the pressure plate to clutch outer finger or fork? How recessed am I? Take a clean focused close shot and send it in. Pictures tell the story.

Also:
How did I stack my frictions and steels? Steel cut sides face me going in. Friction finger tabs have a flat side or ink stamping, those face me as I stack the pack too.

When I put the new fibers and steels in, I put the steels in as you say, smoothed side in towards engine, sharp cut side out towards me. fibers went in with ink tip up, and last (outermost) fiber clocked one tooth off.

* Last updated by: TigerFire13 on 9/18/2016 @ 6:08 PM *

This is sounding identical to my thread from a couple years back. Issue was the Pazzo. Even if you're sure, try installing the OEM lever and see if that cures what ails you before ripping the clutch apart. If the OEM lever still does it, it's not the lever. Could be smooth if there is no wear from misalignment but still might be it's too tight.

Rook, I have been running the OEM lever for a while now, didn't seem to make a difference which one was installed. I wish it was that simple...

What is with the spring sticking out? The Brock washer that thick the spring sticks out that far? I'd pull the cover and check that.

* Last updated by: TigerFire13 on 9/19/2016 @ 4:42 PM *

Good eye Hub.

I have yet to take my clutch apart but from the pics HERE, it looks like the bolt heads are supposed to be down in the wells in the clutch hub.

If you are using after market springs with spacers, they be resisting the torque wrench a lot more than OEM springs. The tutorial linked above says 6-8 ft lbs torque and NO MORE or you may break the bolt. ..but with stronger springs, you may need to torque heavier. I would check with Brock. If those are Brock bolts, they may be rated for more torque than OEM bolts. Those do look like they are sticking way out. If so, they would apply less force to your clutch pack and it would slip easier. First thing I'd do is test the torque and get in touch with Brock before going much further.

Rook, looking at the pics you linked, I think the outer plate the bolts pass through are very different from 1st gen to 2nd gen... My original springs also stuck out this far. What I gathered from the photos you linked is that there is most definitely a well for each bolt to hide in, but the plate for my bike is much thinner, the recesses are only as deep as the pictures show. Brocks kit instructions: .PDF link

Update:

I pulled all of the frictions and steels to verify correct installation count, order, and orientation. All were as they should be. I then reinstalled with the original springs. Clutch lever felt just a touch softer, as it should. Bolted everything back up, put the oil back in, and took it for a ride. No change. I thought perhaps it would slip more with less strong springs, but it feels just like before. So this should rule out the kit from Brocks.

Maybe I should try replacing the outermost 2.6 steel with a 2.9 again?

I understand we rotate the last friction 1 tooth off so that as the friction pads wear down, this outermost friction will bump up against the stops in the basket, preventing the clutch from engaging fully, and serving as an indicator that it needs to be looked at (Or am i wrong here?). As long as the steels aren't warped (which mine aren't) and the stack order is correct (fiber-steel-fiber-steel-etc) shouldn't the clutch still grab nice and tight as long as the outer friction is not resting against the stops?

Is there anything else in the drive system that would make it seem like the clutch lever up on the handlebar is constantly pulled in a very slight amount, perhaps something besides the master/slave and frictions/steels?

Picture of stock springs:

* Last updated by: TigerFire13 on 9/20/2016 @ 4:44 PM *

There is so much throw, and so much pack.
Throw: The rod moves so far as is hampered by the piston's full throw out of the slave cylinder.
a. The rod has to collapse or shrink or throwout bearing needles are gone = No full throw.
b. The piston follows the wear [moving in] so the piston retracts more into the slave cylinder, but same distance thrown.
c. The slave has to leak so as not throwing a full throw.
d. The line/slave/master has air in between and the throw will not be full.

Pack:
a. The steels and frictions call the [measured] pack.
b. The fatter [2.9] installed; compresses more spring.
c. The pack wears from the inside out. The first to collapse [and burn out] are the beginning inboard plates/steels.
d. The springs expand out some, but the real slip are at the plates/steels not holding.

Slave/Master:
a. Bleed the top master's nipple fitting first.
b. Did the lever pressure improve?
c. Bleed the main line down at the slave.
d. Hand push the slave back in fully [if removed and back-bleed] this way.

The outer most pressure plate OD line; sticks farther out than the edge of the fork fingers. Looking good! Mine are even with the outer edge, but when new, stuck out as yours is looking now. Let the new oil breakdown before getting on it. If I run fresh syn-blend, mine will slip. I wait a few hundred miles, no slip.

this outermost friction will bump up against the stops in the basket, preventing the clutch from engaging fully, and serving as an indicator that it needs to be looked at (Or am i wrong here?).

Close. The real deal is the measured 'serviceable limit' numbers of the pack. They wear down so there is a measured stack height. Last thing you want is burned clutches mixing with the oil. My guess is that the pack will slip way before the big one touches its own cutout.

There is so much throw, and so much pack.
Throw: The rod moves so far as is hampered by the piston's full throw out of the slave cylinder.
a. The rod has to collapse or shrink or throwout bearing needles are gone = No full throw.
b. The piston follows the wear [moving in] so the piston retracts more into the slave cylinder, but same distance thrown.
c. The slave has to leak so as not throwing a full throw.
d. The line/slave/master has air in between and the throw will not be full.

So if there is any problem as listed above, the clutch will not fully disengage when the lever is pulled. The symptoms I am having suggest that the "throw" is working perhaps more than fine. If any part of the above system was compromised, would I not have full and complete clutch lockup? If anything, I shouldn't be able to disengage the clutch...

Let the new oil breakdown before getting on it. If I run fresh syn-blend, mine will slip. I wait a few hundred miles, no slip.

Pretty sure it has been at least a couple hundred miles since I installed this pack, and I really don't climb the tach that often... Maybe I will look at the oil I am using and see if they changed formula's recently? It has always served me well in the past, but perhaps they added friction modifiers?

I appreciate your contributions. I am not trying to be aggressive in my replies, I just want to politely argue(?) points so I can learn.