It depends on how the officer articulates why he came to estimate the speed of those following vehicles, I am more than confident testifying to a ticket where I stop 2 or even 3 vehicles in a row.... I am in traffic court almost every other day, and a good traffic guy can articulate the points to prove beyond a "reasonable doubt" that the second vehicle was also speeding.... of course it also depends on who the judge is..... obviously in your stop sign case the officer did not articulate well enough to the judge and the court to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were guilty of what he charged you with.... and the judge believed you because you were probably more prepared than the officer.... yes sometimes you win!!

* Last updated by: Fuzz4141 on 2/24/2011 @ 3:50 PM *

obviously in your stop sign case the officer did not articulate well enough to the judge and the court to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were guilty of what he charged you with.... and the judge believed you because you were probably more prepared than the officer.... yes sometimes you win!!

oh of course.. it couldn't possibly have been the cop had his head up his a$$ and was wasting everyone's time.

You know, I can get behind traffic laws and enforcing them in cases where drivers/riders are not using common sense or are operating outside the limits of what is safe and prudent, hurting and endangering others but the current system is just flawed and down right un-American. It's not about public safety or even punishing those who absolutely deserve it. It's about revenue collection and restricting freedom. Frankly, I think unless a driver is reckless/ careless or just plain stupid there shouldn't even be a stop. I am so effing tired of cops lecturing me on the side of the road telling me about how they cleaned up this and that accident and how they are just trying to make it safe. Bullshit! It's about ego and wishing they had real authority in this world. They just can't handle being at the bottom of the whatever imaginary caste system they have perceived life to be about. Live and let live I say. No victim, no crime. Spare me the fucking lecture and just write the damn ticket or let me go already. I sense the same in your tone too. I just can't stand traffic cops. They are like little bully children on the playground. I can appreciate your experience, and I realize you have a dangerous job on many levels. It is certainly unique to have a copper on here telling us the other side of the story.. but I gotta say, it does nothing to change my mind or opinion of the police when I read your words. I just hear a bully talking. Law this and court room, testify, articulate that. It's so petty. I don't blame you for the way it is.. but I gotta tell ya, you are just another cog in that wheel. I know I am a small, insignificant, worthless human. I know my place in the universe is so overwhelmingly irrelevant it's barely worth even mentioning.. at least I can admit it. Never met a cop that could though. And BTW, every time I hit 130 on an interstate or run a red light or my Passport lights up and tells me one of your fascist brothers is up ahead, giving me plenty of time to adjust my speed.. I won!

* Last updated by: motoCycho on 2/24/2011 @ 6:28 PM *

Hmm a little disrespectful, I was giving my professional opinion to maybe help people understand the other side.... not trashing or putting anyone down at all or even swearing... thats the last time I will post on this forum...

* Last updated by: Fuzz4141 on 2/24/2011 @ 9:47 PM *

I was giving my professional opinion to maybe help people understand the other side.... not trashing or putting anyone down at all or even swearing... thats the last time I will post on this forum...

Some of us really appreciate you giving "the other side". Don't let a difference of opinion chase ya off, Fuzz... It's winter, everyone is a little on edge.

Shi$ Fuzz...c'mon man...everyone's entitled to their opinion.Don't take it personally.I met ya...yer very cool...and not afraid to open yer big bird up either.Stay here...you're a part of this zx14 forum.I think if Moto met ya on the street,you two would hit it off famously....He's most likely never been stopped by a copper like you!S'all good my man.

My experiences with "cops" has been positive.I could care less about a speeding ticket.Don't bother me to get stopped.If I know I'm wrong....gettin pissed at the PoPo isn't gonna make me right.I speed..(IF)...and get stopped....well..I'm not some thumb suckin kid.I man up and take my dues.I don't try to "get back" at any Police guy...they DO have a shitty job....I'd rather not make the divide wider.But that's just they way I am.EVERY walk of life has their share of jerks...even fast azz ridin zx14 flyin bikers.(no digs to anyone here..okay...before anyone jumps the gun).Moto's got his reasons for how he feels.I've got mine.Rook's got his.And so on.

In "defense" however of "the law"....I don't think personally that it should be total "freedom"...you know...no crime no victim.You have to have SOME type of restraint on self willed humans.No other way society can function.Everyone making their own rules?Okay...say as far as I'm concerned...it's okay to go as fast as I can,when "I" think it's prudent.No crime,no victim.Fine.But what happens when MY thinking gets me into a T-Bone with that Family "thinking""I don't need to stop....I'll just roll along here through this intersection...no crime,no victim".UNTIL.......BOOM...I meet them,they meet me...and their kids die as a result?THEN what?Who's to blame?"MY way was fine...theirs wasn't"...they say..."our way was just ducky,HE was the one shoulda paid attention"....what then?No court?No finding of fault?Both parties just chalk it up to "experience" and move on?I don't think so.Justice would be gone....our values about right and wrong...gone...that's not freedom in my opinion.And that's ONLY my opinion.Trying to assume that EVERYONE knows "right from wrong",and that NO ONE should be held accountable is disaster waiting to happen.Who then would make the "rules"...what's okay and Not okay.It wouldn't be long you'd have people goin around with guns and stuff meteing out "their" ideas of right or wrong right there on the street.It's already at that point...everytime some idiot shoots up a school...or robs a bank and kills innocent people.

I see Freedom in America as healthy and strong as ever...you ARE free to go and "mete out justice" if ya want.You ARE free to speed if ya want.NOBODY is physically stopping anyone from being as "free" as they CHOOSE to be.(except those already convicted and doing their time).But in reality...you or I can do whatever we want.There is a price however.That MUST be operative...or else You and I are not secure in our persons...and our families are at the mercy of others who may just think..."I don't believe in family values...think I'll go play shoot em up at the local supermarket today".Our society right now IMO is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the majority of populations in this world when it comes to having "freedoms" as opposed to restrictions...like the Middle East and others.They're just "beginning" to try and change what's been going on for Centuries there...the Imams and Clerics and Presidents.We've thankfully already had our Independence Day...paid for with blood.Nothing can surpass that payment.That's ONE reason we are who we are,and honestly VERY respected and feared as well around the world.If ya listened to all the rhetoric that's been goin on...since this REPUBLIC was established,you'd think the world sees us as some kind of vermin.The truth is just the opposite.There are millions and millions of people around the world that love and honor the American people...even with all the faults that go along with a free society.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 2/24/2011 @ 11:33 PM *

Hmm a little disrespectful, I was giving my professional opinion to maybe help people understand the other side.... not trashing or putting anyone down at all or even swearing... thats the last time I will post on this forum...

WTF? I wasn't trying to chase you away. I was just venting about how "cop" you sounded. I did say I realize you work a dangerous job and I respect that for sure. As for being "disrespectful". So what? This isn't a traffic stop officer. Besides, I was just being general anyway. I appreciate hearing your professional opinion.. it just doesn't surprise me because you sound like a cop... oh, which you are. In your reply about privateer's post you just sounded so much like a cop:

and the judge believed you because you were probably more prepared than the officer.... yes sometimes you win!!

I just thought, what if the judge believed him because it was the truth? But that rarely happens. The cop is always right. He is a professional witness. His trained and coached and setup to "win" virtually every time he takes the stand on behalf of the corrupt system that he serves. In this case, a cop almost smashed into him because he was pursuing too fast or in an unsafe manner and there was no way that privateer could have seen the cop coming due to the terrain and the speed of the chase. You simply attributed his success in court to convincing the judge. I just thought it was effing hilarious and very "cop" of you. That's all.

I used to drive a big rig truck. One time, fully loaded and pulling two trailers I had just gotten the truck up to freeway speed.. 65 MPH. I was in the #3 lane on a 4 lane interstate. In the #1 or #2 lane a highway patrol passes me doing about 75 or so.. and when he gets about 12 car lengths or so past me he sees a car disabled on the right shoulder. He smashes his brakes and makes a hard 90° right turn, turning directly into my path, literally at a perpendicular angle to me and across my lane has he makes his way to the shoulder. I'm pulling 2 trailers.. probably close to 65,000 lbs. I dynamite my brakes cuz that's all I got. No way I am gonna stack this up on my head for this bone head... I mean I don't want to hit him.. cuz we all know whose fault it would be once we were in court.. but straight is all I am willing to do. Wasn't my day to die. Luckily, only the back wheels of the front trailer lock.. the rest grab real nice.. I hold my line and barely miss this trooper by like 10 ft tops. He never looked at me.. it was as if he had passed me, never saw I was in that lane and the whole damn road was his. I didn't exist. Anyway.. my point is that had that resulted in an accident and gone to court.. had I hit that trooper and killed him.. which was very much within reality for a split second, how much prison time you think I would have had to serve? Just sayin'!

Scarey stuff..glad THAT ended okay.I'm thinkin you would have easily gotten off....some investigation would have proved beyond a doubt that his actions were completely the cause of any "accident" that could have occurred.Some evidence is just TOO obvious.

We have police here...and I respect em,but some of there actions(to me anyway) are just a tragedy waitin to happen.I work nights.I'm on a semi busy intersection...that's what's out past the parking lot.It's lit up,yes,but not excessively.Drivers here kinda have a way of,well,how can I say it?A way of "not payin attention" while they're driving sometimes(plenty of times actually).I've seen 4 or 5 police cars who apparently got a call somewhere where they were all requested....something serious I assume,and I've seen em take this intersection like at 70 mph...NO LIGHTS...NO SIREN.EXTREMELY dangerous in my view.Personally,I don't know HOW they could have a pursuit(call) policy that would allow them to operate their vehicles in such an unsafe way...but apparently,it's okay with them.I cringe everytime I see something like that,cause I feel it's just a matter of time before some driver "fails to be attentive",and gets himself or his family killed(meaning...killed by the police)It happens with some frequency...at least 2 or 3 times every year...this speeding to a call without lights or siren.What can you do?Not much.Except be attentive,and "possibly" file a complaint...which most likely..at least here...WOULD mean something.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 2/24/2011 @ 11:56 PM *

In "defense" however of "the law"....I don't think personally that it should be total "freedom"...you know...no crime no victim.You have to have SOME type of restraint on self willed humans.No other way society can function.Everyone making their own rules?Okay...say as far as I'm concerned...it's okay to go as fast as I can,when "I" think it's prudent.No crime,no victim.Fine.But what happens when MY thinking gets me into a T-Bone with that Family "thinking""I don't need to stop....I'll just roll along here through this intersection...no crime,no victim".UNTIL.......BOOM...I meet them,they meet me...and their kids die as a result?THEN what?Who's to blame?

Hi blue07,

But there is a victim in your scenario. I don't advocate anarchy or lawlessness. I just don't like the way police have the power to interpret law and detain citizens arbitrarily and at will, sometimes resulting the use of deadly force or causing a fatal accident all under the guise of "public safety". I don't know if it is the rule.. might be the exception.. but it happens. I think the court systems, in most municipalities, are just an extension of law enforcement and designed to primarily to take your money. It makes criminals out of honest, hard working folks that would otherwise be considered "safe and prudent" if their actions were examined from a truly objective vantage point.

Anyway, I want Fuzz4141 to come back. I turned a few screws sure.. but only because banter is fun.. this is only banter I assure you. I mean I have passion about what I am saying sure.. but I don't hold Fuzz4141 or anyone I have never met responsible for the way I have been mistreated by police. That said, I have met good cops too. My rant is more to do with the entire package.. not so much an individual, albeit, Fuzz4141 was the trigger today. I seriously hope he is coming back. I am sure he will.

This is what makes this forum so unique....there aint a bunch of mindless "boneheads" spoutin out disrespect to others...and if "some " seems to be personal....usually it gets ironed out the way this has.No hard feelings on anyone(I hope).It's all good...this forum really IS different....that's for sure .

* Last updated by: blue07 on 2/25/2011 @ 12:00 AM *

Well, for one thing, I've never been treated unfairly by the police except for the one time I cited when I drew the judge a diagram in court. That officer was in high speed pursuit (I remember remarking to my girlfriend, holy shit did you see how fast that Camaro blew through the intersection?) without his lights on, and was probably traveling in excess of 50 mph on a 25 mph street through the southern wooded area of Carmel CA.

So I took exception to getting an expensive ticket just because the Camaro got away. Which really is what his snit was all about.

One time my friend and I were on the ridge road in the mountains west of San Jose, CA. He was leading on his Yamaha and I was on my ZX11. We came over a rise doing a ton and down the other side was the County Sheriff himself, with his handheld.

He flagged us down, and we pulled in meekly behind his car, put the kick stands down, and turned the motors off (back then the kickstand wasn't wired to the ECU). Took our helmets off, and got our wallets out.

He walked over, and showed my friend, who was in the lead, the reading on the radar gun. My friend turned to me and said John, that must be you cause I know I was doing the speed limit. We both almost fell off our bikes, trying not to laugh.

We knew the County Sheriff by name, heck we had been ticketed by him before.

He looked at me, and said, "You get lucky today, I can only ticket the lead motorcycle"

Now my friend shot me a truly nasty look.

As the Sheriff started to write his ticket, the radio in the car beeped and a voice I couldn't understand said something about an accident. The Sheriff looked at us, looked at his car, looked at the ticket pad, tore out the unsigned ticket (all three parts) and gave it to my friend.

"Y'all real lucky today, I got to go to this accident back the way you come from, its really bad they say. No time for tickets right now"

And he peeled out and hung a movie style 180 drift turn and roared back over the hill we have just come over, lights and siren on, waking up the dead, as the sun came up over the mountain range.

Was gonna be a great Sunday morning, at Alice's Restaurant, with 200ish other bikers. That day, both of our Angels were flying fast.

* Last updated by: privateer on 2/25/2011 @ 4:36 AM *

Well, for one thing, I've never been treated unfairly by the police except for the one time I cited

That is prolly why they usually do not loose their court cases. When they make a mistake at work, they should do what the rest of the world does--hope it causes no harm and hope the boss doesn't find out. No need to try to shift the blame. I agree with moto, privateer should have won his case. He was right. that's the way the law is supposed to work and cops are supposed to uphold the law.

Hope you decide to come back Fuzz. You're a good member.

Mr. Fuzzy sometimes you gots to takes the good with the bad on a board just like you have to on the street. Not every cop is bad and not every board member feels the same as others.
Myself well I appreciate the other sides view and will mess with you about being a cop and only expect you to mess back - in good fun of course.

Take a board vacation for a couple days and sometimes it gets better but remember we will still refer to you as the "Road Side Revenue Collector".

(There gorts to be a smiley face moticon around here some where?)

* Last updated by: Rook on 2/25/2011 @ 1:06 PM *