So what part of a motorcyle, particularly a zx14, would a LEO aim his laser or radar gun to get an accurate mearsure of speed?

I'd think headlights if the bike is headed towards the officer and license plate if headed away... But does anyone know what part of a bike LEO's are trained the aim speed detection equipment at?

The flattest radar facing surface area of the vehicle.Someplace where the radar,lazer will bounce off of in the straightest return beam.If you get lazered....yer done.No detector will help you once he pulls the trigger.Once the detector sees the lazer signal...it's too late.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 2/19/2011 @ 2:11 PM *

I would think the bike and a person as a whole. Specific parts of a bike far away would be hard. Especially with a moving target small as a bike. How does the deflector work ?

No one part. I got redared by an oncoming Statey last summer just as I was coming out of a corner. He was a coupla hundred yards back down the straight and his dash mount locked on me in no more than a second. His statement when he walked up to me was, "you hit 70 as soon as you came out of that corner". I didn't bother to tell him I went through the corner at 70, and shut the throttle off as soon as I started to stand the bike up and realized what he was.

70 in a 55, and passing on a double yellow (that's another amusing part of the encounter), he let me off with a warning. Whew, put that $300 back in my pocket.

How does the deflector work ?

Laser shifters shoot a beam of light back at the Lidar causing the gun to "jam".

I've got a Valentine in my Mustang and therefore know that very few Leo's around here use Lidar. Mostly just the motorcycle officers posted up along the freeway. And yes my Valentine will not alert for Lidar until it is too late.

70 in a 55, and passing on a double yellow (that's another amusing part of the encounter), he let me off with a warning. Whew, put that $300 back in my pocket

Damn Tom... got lucky! I have not been let off with a warning in a long time. My last ticket, on a bike, was for 60 in a 55 (actual speed, no break)... I was on a zx10r, in the fast lane, passing a guy doing about 50 in the slow lane... the days of warnings, around here, are over.

I don't think any detector can alert ya coming out of(or around) a corner...maybe an "errant" "on" signal from beams passing in front of the detector as you are approaching a straight.They wouldn't know you were coming around a bend...unless someone called first and said something(which does happen with some regularity).If they had a straight shot and happened to be "on",they could get ya just as you straightened up.Had that same deal happen to me.LUCKILY...unlike Hillbilly there...I sensed something "might" be ahead on the straight...which they were,but I'd already hit over 100 coming into the turn and through the apex.He got me slowing down.When I straightened out on the oncoming downhill.Still got a ticket though....91 in a 70.Ya...saw him comin...behind a couple of slower cars ahead coming at me.I just KNEW he was gonna get me....so I just pulled over and waited for him to u-turn and pull up.Detector wouldn't have helped me.

My thinkin here...any jamming of a Lidar and yer gonna be toast.The LEO's gonna be pissed...that's for sure.If he doesn't stop ya...you can bet he'll have someone line up up ahead.They will nail ya if ya continue goin over the limit.They do know about the jammers for sure.In some states,ya might even go to jail for havin one...IDK?

One thing I never realized until last year...if you pass a HWY Patrol with radar on(oncoming),they can clock you as they are moving away from you.So speeding up after they pass is a BAD IDEA.Driving behind one with radar on can get ya a ticket as well...if yer way back and approaching fast.They can clock you.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 2/19/2011 @ 3:52 PM *

So what part of a motorcyle, particularly a zx14, would a LEO aim his laser or radar gun to get an accurate mearsure of speed?

They can get you from a half mile whether you are moving diagonally to the line of fire or straight at it. At that distance, you're just a pinpoint so there is no way they are going to be aiming at any specific part of the bike. Apparently, all they need is a good view from any direction and you are clocked.

My deal happened on a backwoods 2 lane twistie. He probably knew I was going to drop any ticket he gave me off at the lawyer's office on Monday ($100 lawyer fee + "court costs" = nothing on your record), so he saved himself the paperwork.

Actually, blue, we have technology coming into non-portable (vehicle installed) detectors which CAN see around corners. It should phase into high-end expensive units in 2012.

If the radar / lidar / laser unit is set up on the other side of the curve, out of line of sight, and illuminates a vehicle ahead of you (already around the curve), that will light the corner up more than sufficient to detect it.

Same principle as when a laser designator is used to light up a target for a smart bomb or rocket. The soldier on the ground, or airborner illuminator, doing the illumination with laser isn't concerned about the angle of attack of the illumination beam. The weapon system will be able to see the radiated energy from any angle almost.

Same principle. Within 5 years there will be bike-mountable units which can do this with microsecond detection delays. Of course, the cops will have 5 years to incorporate the new technology to do better speed detection, too.

And if he doesn't illuminate you can't detect. On the other hand, until they figure it out, many of them sit with the vehicle mounted units turned on constantly, so as you approach the corner, your detector will go nuts.

Hmmm which is another reason not to ride faster than your Angel can fly....

Hmmm which is another reason not to ride faster than your Angel can fly....

But don't you think some angels fly faster than others?

That new tech you spoke of sounds like a game changer, Privateer. Which ever side gets their hands on it first, wins.

My deal happened on a backwoods 2 lane twistie. He probably knew I was going to drop any ticket he gave me off at the lawyer's office on Monday ($100 lawyer fee + "court costs" = nothing on your record), so he saved himself the paperwork.

99% of the time I'm riding backroads... but there's always that little stretch where you have to get on the highway.

They can get you from a half mile whether you are moving diagonally to the line of fire or straight at it. At that distance, you're just a pinpoint so there is no way they are going to be aiming at any specific part of the bike. Apparently, all they need is a good view from any direction and you are clocked.

You're right... but I'm sure that LEO's are instructed to initially try to get a reading from a particular part of the bike. On a car I beleive officers are trained to first aim at the license plate.

My thinkin here...any jamming of a Lidar and yer gonna be toast.The LEO's gonna be pissed...that's for sure.If he doesn't stop ya...you can bet he'll have someone line up up ahead.They will nail ya if ya continue goin over the limit.They do know about the jammers for sure.In some states,ya might even go to jail for havin one...IDK?

Laser jammers are illegal in a few states... CA, CO and UT, I beleive. Radar jammers are illegal in all 50 states.
I'm with you, as far as not expecting a break if you're using a detector. I didn't use one for a lot of years for that very reason. I noticed a huge difference in my interactions with LEO's when I had a visable detector vs. when I did not... but at this point I do not expect to ever get a break... gonna do what I can to minimize the the risks I take.

"faster than your Angel can fly"....he he...this is how I picture it....I'm cruisin down the road...on both sides AND sometimes in the center,God has a fleet of angels posted right where they're needed(they probably like the entertainment anyway) for my dumbazz to be protected from anything comin from the bushes or some yahoo crossin the center line.The tickets are just a way to get me to stop...Him knowing what's up ahead and all.Sometimes His Angels I think are being used for other purposes,so He may have to arrange the game plan a tad(not that He should).God always takes care of me....in a million ways I don't even realize.Continuously,24 hrs a day.He can even change a LEO's mind if He so chooses.Kinda like that scene in Star Wars...where Ben Canobi and Luke are gonna pass through the checkpoint.Ben waves his hand and telepathically tells the guy what to think and say...trooper says..."you're okay....you may pass...there's nothing out of order here"(something along those lines)Got the Wooki sittin right there or somethin...robot...IDK....cracks me up everytime I think of it.Very cool scene.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 2/19/2011 @ 5:18 PM *

Radar and Laser are two totally separate things.... radar is broad and picks up anything, the new ones that are mounted in the patrol cars we call them Moving mode Radar units.... they have front and rear radars mounted... they are capable of measuring spped of vehicles while the patrol car is in motion, as well as when it in stopped at the roadside or at a red light.... they measure vehicles going the same direction as the patrol car, as well as travelling opposite direction... you can stop the radar from transmitting and leave it on hold to beat the radar detectors... when you see a vehicle coming fast you take of hold and lock it in when you get the speed... within a second if you are good at it!! So if you have a good radar detector nowadays it will basically just be a warning that a ticket is ahead!! And laser detectors are definately a waste of money.... as the operator because the band is so broad you need to estimate the vehicles speed as well as make observations as to why you believe the vehicle you stopped was doing that speed as compared to the vehicle behind them... either they were pulling away in distance or gain in distance.... and of course your estimate must be close to the reading as well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqiT0apg9_Y&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLUQdIY7IqQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnmY-dOyQRk

Now Laser is a line of sight speed measurment tool... you see a vehcle approaching the operator of the laser, points the laser as seen in the sight, at a flat surface on the vehicle pulls the trigger and it gives you a reading in a nano second... if you have a jammer the new laser instuments will detect that the signal is being jammed and depending on which state or province you live in you still get a ticket!!! (and be reminded that estimations of speed are acceptable in court, as all operators are trained in estimating speeds as well!!) If the officer is using laser it is much more precise that radar... cause you point it at a specific spot on a specific vehicle and there is absolutely no way that the reading you get is not from the vehicle you are stopping...

as for your question DOGO about where are the operators trained to aim, I will just say any flat surface will do, sport bikes are a little tougher at longer distances cause they are are not many flat surfaces but you can always find one but it may take a bit longer!!.... and Headlights and windshields are not good to aim at as they reflect and refract the laser... And I am schooled in both speed measurment instruments...

* Last updated by: Fuzz4141 on 2/19/2011 @ 5:34 PM *

Great insight, Fuzz... I was hoping you or one of the other LEO's on the forum would chime in... Thank you very much.

One more question though... Is an officer allowed to aim a Lidar at the rider?... Or has somebody deemed the risk of hitting the rider in the eyes with the laser too dangerous, or some sh*t like that?... 'Cuz if the LEO can aim at the rider, the best reading, I'm guessing, is gonna be the middle of my chest.

Hey no worries Dogo... Hey its a topic I know very, have been on the stand for both radar and laser tix and use both daily!!

No danger its not like a laser pointer you don't actually see the laser beam and it is perfectly safe... and yes you can point at the rider... For bikes you try to get the rad or beside the headlamp because sometimes you can get the front of the tank on a cruiser, for sport bikes or cruisers the chest is a very good target!! But even if you catch a flat spot the size of a dime with the laser it will or shud give you a reading....

* Last updated by: Fuzz4141 on 2/20/2011 @ 12:07 AM *

A jammer's good if your quick on the switch to still give them a reading, otherwise if your zero to the gun they will be on to you anyway. In addition to the radar and the jammer you still need your spidey senses ;)

Fuzz what happens when see a example like the c5 vette in the above video ? Do you now pursue and charge him accordingly or is it not worth your time ?

A jammer's good if your quick on the switch to still give them a reading, otherwise if your zero to the gun they will be on to you anyway. In addition to the radar and the jammer you still need your spidey senses ;)

Yep... Really the point of laser shifters is just to buy the user a second or two. Just enough time to adjust their speed and then turn them off.

Gotta say, a Valentine One has been a fabulous tool for fine tuning my "spidey senses". Directional arrows and "bogey" counter make it the best tool on the market, IMO.

Fuzz what happens when see a example like the c5 vette in the above video ? Do you now pursue and charge him accordingly or is it not worth your time ?

As mentioned above, in a real world situation the driver of the Vette would/should have adjusted his/her speed then turned the laser blinders off. That way the LEO would have been able to get a speed reading... just, hopefully, one at or near the speed limit.

I'd suspect driving or riding by an officer with laser blinders turned on would result in a ticket. Officers are also trained to visually estimate your speed.

Also, Fuzz mentioned that the Lidar only needs a spot the size of a dime to get a reading. I'm sure any LEO that gets a "0" reading on his Lidar just points the thing at a different spot on the vehicle. But that should still buy the operator of the vehicle a little time to adjust their speed.

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 2/20/2011 @ 10:01 AM *

Adjusting FAST speeds is almost pointless IMO.They can easily notice the frontend dropping as you hit the front brake.So visually,they know yer goin too fast...and you know yer goin too fast.Best to pull over...and hope for mercy!

If at all possible...and it is here anyway...get behind a FAST moving vehicle...leaving yerself enough stopping safely distance,and follow that bird.Radar/lazer is gonna hit that BIG target ahead of ya first.Kinda hard to focus a beam on two (one actually)tires BEHIND a big azz block of steel.I've found here anyway,that when SOME drivers see an awesome BIG sportbike on their 6 o'clock,they either slow down...OR....weeeee...speed up...past the limit.And stay there as long as they can.Kinda fun to follow a Ford Truck doin 100+.Whheeeeee!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 2/20/2011 @ 10:38 AM *

Well the instrument that they are using in the test to measure speed looks like an old Laser... and it when they show you the display of what he is looking through it shows a box, the instrument I am familiar with when you look through the scope it shows a little red dot... much like a holigraphic sight or Eotech sight for a rifle... now I don't have a lot of experience with Jammers, but from my understanding they intercept the laser beam and makes it so the beam does not return back to the instrument that is why you do not get a reading... and our Instruments detect a jam and will display a jam message..... So I would think the laser beam wud have to be pointed right at the jammer just like a laser detector... (someone correct me if I am wrong!)

and in the video it sez your aim a the signal light.... um don't think so they have glass or plastic type and mirror.. they will refract the light and it wont return the laser back to the gun... so it may take longer to get the reading!!

wud I stop him for sure, wud I charge him who knows kind of a grey area here in Alberta with jammers.... but keep in mind the officer estimates your speed first before he get pulls the trigger. And experienced traffic guys are usually within 3-5KM of the actual speed and if you lose the laser evidence in court the estimate will still be accepted in court if the officer articulates how he came about that estimate... so I wud still give the speeding ticket based on the estimation even if the laser wud not give me reading...

"Radar/lazer is gonna hit that BIG target ahead of ya first"

Blue this is not true at all for laser/lidar, it is target specific your point the laser beam at the bumper, or flat spot on the vehicle/bike and pull the trigger.... even if you tuck behind a larger vehicle the officer will get a reading of the lead vehicle, and stop both vehicles... he wud have to articulate that the vehicle behind was not gaining or losing distance between the lead vehicle, as well as his visual estimation of the speeds....

For RADAR it is somewhat true that the radar will pick up the bigger vehicle, but not all the time... also again the visual estimation by the officer as well as his observations (vehicle gaining on traffic...etc) Radar Enforcement is an art because yes you got the reading of the speed but then because it is so broad you have to use your visual estimation and observations to corroborate that... Where as laser/lidar there is no question because it is target specific....

So is a radar detector even worth having anymore?

I am still old school and just hope I don't get caught.

So is a radar detector even worth having anymore?
I am still old school and just hope I don't get caught.

Sure. 1) some detection is always better than none. 2) laser isn't that widely used really. At least not around here. It has a few serious limitations. Doesn't work from a moving vehicle, doesn't work from behind glass, as far as I know.

I have an Escort Passport 9500ix radar/laser detector. It has saved me from several tickets. I get detection warnings all the time with plenty of time to slow down. As others ahead get clocked, I get warned. It's a beautiful thing. Should have got one years ago.

* Last updated by: motoCycho on 2/21/2011 @ 3:56 AM *