During our Sunday ride, my friend on his ZX-14 was complaining about brake chatter. Everybody had a different opinion on what should be done to fix the problem. One was to clean the pads and rotor, another to replace the pads.

What do you guys recommend?

Char

How many miles are on the brakes?

"How many miles are on the brakes?"

I think he said 27,000

How many miles on the front tire?

If it's got that many miles on he original pads. I'd replace them first. Even if that's not it. It's gonna need them replaced soon anyway.

Pins shown below were my biggest issue. I'm with Hub "chatter" Front tire.

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Front tire usually causes wobble and/or palsating, not brake chatter

* Last updated by: Bud0212 on 4/22/2010 @ 10:13 PM *

But it's never a bad idea to make sure you have good rubber on the "MONSTER"

I can find video where I have fresh rubber on, I brake, you hear the rubber squeak for a tad of a second I run it in deep and hit the binders. I have mentioned that I would not travel through 'compression canyon' with the tires I have on now. I come off that rail, then hit the binders, she wheel hops all throughout the video; the front tire is shot, not the front brakes.

I don't know how much more proof you need between a new and worn tire. My discs are pulse-less at the lever; ask him. My brake pads still show plenty of wear left, where I am not even close to the wear groove. OK, close, but no cigar. Last time out, I never felt a head shake. Balance is still within smooth cruise, no high speed funny as if to call out the brakes.

Over 12,000 Miles on front set.
100 feet or less on rear set.

This is one issue I cannot figure out on my bike as well, I have a new front tire, I brought my micrometer and indicators home from work and my disks are parallel and runout only .001-.002 and I still get a huge pulsating like a bent brake disk. I have new pads in the garage and that is going to be my weekend project. I am at a total loss as to what is causing this for me.

Tainted, mine did the same thing sence day one, new.

I've mentioned this before, I think.
I complained to the dealer about this same thing. The shake was pretty violent at times. They actually cleaned the rotors and cleaned out the holes in the rotors with brake cleaner (maybe scuffed them up a bit first).
They said the rotors were NOT warped (like I thought).
I called BS until I rode it home.
Smooth as silk now. I still can't believe it. All I had to do was clean the rotors????

Give it a try. It's a cheap experiment and at least you'll know your rotors are clean.

* Last updated by: gumbybob on 4/23/2010 @ 8:51 AM *

I have new pads in the garage and that is going to be my weekend project. I am at a total loss as to what is causing this for me.

Since day one, my pads have not squealed a peep like a pig being chased with grease all over it. The pads feel like the first day, meaning, no change.

What you should have done is load the lever with a zip-tie, run that dial indicator off the lever like I'm going to try before I tear the whole front end down and service everything. I already greased the front steering bearings at 7K.

I hear no knock like it would shudder there. You got me thinking of that lever idea. That gave me the NZ bulb angle is angle that dial indicator and see if your total loss is still at the tire or the disc chatter.

You can't rule out the forks being on the rebound/fork load pulse [chatter] and that total loss of an idea. But then, I still come back to how I find the feedback is a fresh tire chirp with the forks set to the same settings. Then the front tire wears, I begin to get scared is that warning not to throw it in the corner when she chops that bad on the straight up braking.

I could match your one move, TToo, we run a new tire with worn pads [me] and you just swap out the brake pads. We are chasing that [fork] chatter, first of all, right? < WE have fork CHATTER? Is what I am feeling. So, someone says brake system, I'm going for the [new] tire change.

Could we conclude it is one or the other or is that not enough to narrow down what is occurring? TToo, you are in a great position to give that feedback with one move only. See if it cleared up.

(Romes, good call on the stake pins. Strange how that one looks so torn up out of the other 3 on the floor}.

Good morning guys: I've just joined the forum. I have the 14 that started this thread. It has about 17,500 miles on it. My brake problems started showing when the bike reached about 6,000 miles on a trip back from Yellowstone. The problem has persisted since. I've had several different tires on it. Right now there is a set of Bridgstone 021's on it with less than 300 miles on them. At the dealers suggestion, I wiped the rotors down with brake clean last week. It didn't help a bit. I think I'll take a look at the pads next. The dealer suggested that they might be glazed up. I'm just wondering if anybody has solved this problem.

D Bowden

08 ZX14
02 Honda RC51
74 Norton Commando
67 Norton Atlas

Hey DB, join the fun. Of all the gin joints, you picked this thread? I got news for ya...

Well, I am no help here. Thinking about this thread while riding, I'm waiting for too many things to happen. I retuned the bike messing around with all 4 air screws. I too, have 021's. Not thinking but riding, the chatter appeared to happen and it did when I really slammed the brakes hard.

Are we chasing front fork chatter? Because here again, I braked fairly hard, but not enough to chatter the front like earlier. That's why I can't pinpoint which or who is doing what? Besides, I found out how gooey the 021's are. The tune is getting more tricky-twitchy I throw cable at it. She is so perky, I had a minor, tiny little drift out of a corner. That was the other thing I was waiting for. And she is still not tuned like it should be.

My bike used to run, slow, cool and smooth. Now it breaks tire like the rest of you. I remember turning my head looking back after that little torque burst. Too old to hang it out, or is the down side, I still have responsibilities. I can live with that front end chatter. I have the setting too plush for cruising purposes. I'm not going to wipe a thing down. My brakes do not squeak at all. Why bother is my thought.

Romes, lets here the chatter with the aftermarkets. How are those pads for chatter elimination or do they make it even worse? Tire-Brakes-Tubes; If I were to take a guess, tube phenom. Same guess as the 40-55 hands off bars. Does it without a worn tire, surfaces with a worn tire. Tubes oscillate at a certain range? How come it did one brake apply shes quiet, the other brake handle a vice grip and does chatter matter? I am just picking straws is why you need a fleet of bikes/riders to figure it all out.

I've sufferred from warped front discs. Had 1 set replaced under warranty at 12,000 miles and the new set has just started pulsationg/juddering again - just as the bike has gone out of its 2 year warranty. Bot sure wether to replace with OEM discs or look for somethig differenmt such as EBC.

Bot sure wether to replace with OEM discs or look for somethig differenmt such as EBC.

I've suffered from warped front discs. Had 1 set replaced under warranty at 12,000 miles and the new set has just started pulsating/juddering again

If this is how I ride normal with one lever, you with a foot added, how is it we are going through disc? Guilty! I keep my hand over the lever, but I am not on the binders throwing heat at it as I ride. We have the same mileage on our bikes. I have yet to feel a warp. There should be less heat at the front with the addition using the foot at the rear I would think? My only guess is you are long on the brake apply. You hang on the levers too long, build heat, meet and greet, Pulse Lever.

I'll give you an example of brake apply:
Exit ramp said [45mph]. I'm on the freeway [65mph] passing cars that are speeding past that sign post. I step the speed up even more at the exit. This exit turns with a quick right, has a sweeping arc back to left, then down straight to a stop sign. Nasty FAST!

This is a really bitch'en turn where you better brake hard before you turn right. Follow me in. Again, I am not thinking thread. I hammer the lever. This begins the chatter. I have a rolling wheel, right? It's still rolling, but say a lot slower now.*

Are you still following me in? I'll video it next time out before I swap for a new front tire and pad set. If that camera moves, oh well? If I see daylight because of that hop, and with that fairing in the way, I can explain the old days of throwing the brake on; I modified the guts inside a set of old forks if you can imagine the night and day difference today. Anyway, I closed off 2 holes. Never drilled the other smaller holes, rather, experimented with 2 holes that started with 4 of the same size holes. Well, needless to say, I could see daylight as the bike hopped like it does now on the braking.

Without that video to capture the chatter and see if the forks stay planted, the tire is the tuning fork, where instead of up and down, she is back and forth. I'm now hard on the brakes, feel this shit under me and if I do not get rid of it, I'm gonna feel something funny on the turn in.

What was left to do was to release and apply again.* Much lighter, btw, because I am slow enough on the second bite and that was, hammerlessooth is how to describe it. Gotta be the deep send to the front forks initially that sets it off. If I am less deep in the tubes on the 2nd go around, the tire did not change those few mph differences in rubber wear if you want to think the, 'step pattern.' Say I am at that slower speed and send the forks deep again on the same hard bite. What do you think would happen? I was too busy to retry that, thank you but no thanks. I ran out of time.

What do you think? And I had that camera cranked down in position but took it off today. Yep, I was running out of time for myself to blow off that little window of time to just go out and test more. This was the canyon loop run and that bike is the Crisp!

I was so pissed off from that other post, some guy in a canyon came speeding up on me and I was cooking pretty good being plain mean for a race. Once I saw him, I started to go into a zone. Fucking guy just quit on me seeing me pull away at will. We came up on a car, I let him pass. All black with one pipe snaked under the seat. Is that a Yam?

Thing is still rich as hell.

OH yeah, and I flew down some ramp onto the main road and here comes some CHP hot on the pedal. I lift. Glide sorta smooth and not take a lot of road like from solid line to broken line. I'm more straightening the road out. He's on my ass seeing if I do something like who knows what. He sure had time to punch the plate in, sniffing my 02 that close. Now he backs off, can't get me but here I am still fucking with every soul on earth starts fucking with me. He's following my line and going off road a little like your average driver crosses the painted line I'm that smooth and straight while riding [follow me in].

* Last updated by: Hub on 4/26/2010 @ 12:27 AM *

Ok guys, here is a little update, last week a found some spare time to dig into the brake "chatter" issues. I took my old pads out, cleaned everything good and took a small flat stone and went over the rotors good with the front wheel spining, just scuffed them up a bit and took a little crud off. Then installed new pads. (the old ones looked fine). I went for a few casual rides to take it easy on the pads for a bit and then did a little testing. Everything is perfect now, this is NOT a tire issue, nor a steering head or bearing issue, this is a brake issue. Did I really need new pads? I doubt it, but I had them so I used them. I would suggest anyone with this problem just stone the rotors off and perhaps lay the pads down on some coarse grit sandpaper and refinish them as well. You will be good as new guaranteed. I think my main issue was that I have the bad habit of spraying engine degreaser on everything when I wash my bike, I believe getting that on the pads is what does them in, sort of makes them "glaze" so to speak. Its worth the 30 minutes or so to give them a good cleaning and scuff them up a bit. I don't know how long this will last, but if I have to do it several times a riding season, so be it.. she stops on a dime now, stoppies come easy and not a hint of chatter or pulsing in the lever.

* Last updated by: TaintedTattoo on 5/20/2010 @ 3:45 AM *

Tainted Tattoo, thanks for that. I am gonna try it this weekend and I have sent this to my son in law as his 06 shakes its head very badly when braking hard. Hopefully a cheap fix.

TT,

I have yet to wash my bike. I can chatter that front end, then ease on the brakes, she goes away. I would think if this was a brake issue, it would do it a second time being just as hard on the second bite, till you felt the input, etc. You are compressing a spring that wants to revert back to static. You have it on the deepest compression trying to keep it there. For every action on compression, it's rebounding equally. You are still on the brakes, it tends to chatter a bit is how I see it. Like a tuning fork you set the, ((((compression/rebound/comprenday?)))) On a softer apply, the forks are not so much in coil bind at the bottom.

1. Brakes still chatter on the hard, but do not on the soft apply = Not the brakes.
2. Tire is worn, still sets the chatter, but still removed the chatter on the soft apply = Not the front tire.
3. Coil is being compressed the most, I use no rear brake, so 100% brakes [fronts] are applied. What else is at the front end if not a tire, brake and suspension = None of the above I can pinpoint is more point at the springs trying to recoil back to static or not as loaded.
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And then there are the new pads. Think of the pads as so thick. Think of the push rod as so long. Think of the lever pull is so far. Once you remove the distance at the pad or the clutch plates, they tend to push or fill that distance up with fluid. So, the lever pull is closer to their grips. If you freshen up the pad or plate, this shortens the throw. The liquid is replaced with less lever pull when the physical padding replaces that distance again.

So, you think the bike brakes better than before is no way hose say. Say I brake with my about to be touching steel is out brake you with your new brake pads. So, no, not the pad is my conclusion is how your chatter interpretation affects my interpretation. "Live with it" is how you approach it.

* Last updated by: Hub on 5/20/2010 @ 9:37 AM *

Hub, I agree with you 99% of the time, this is one exception, my bike does not chatter or wobble or pulsate in the least, whith heavy breaking or light breaking. This is not my imagination, this was not my springs or forks, it was related to my front brakes. I cannot explain the physics of how or why. All I wonder is how long it will last. Maybe you should give it a try and apologize later.

TaintedTattoo,

Please post again if the chatter returns, or you get enough miles that makes you feel like this is definitely a fix/bandaid. Thanks!

I'm goin with Tainted....I think the rotors/pads get glazed at some point.Hard application,stopping fully while holding the lever.Whatever it is...I have the same thing.I replaced my pads and used 600 sandpaper on the rotors/pads about 8,000 miles ago.For a while,no juddering.None.I bedded the new pads in as per the instructions.All was good...for a while.Then,it started again.Just haven't gotten back to cleaning/papering the rotors yet.When slowing to a stop,mine is VERY noticeable.5,6 mph front brake application semi firm,it will definitely feel like there's a slick spot(glazed?)on the rotor itself.NOT the tire...goes with the rotation of the disc.Nothing I can't live with,but still...it's there at hard applications.Smooth applications,virtually nothing...except at very low speed.

TT,

http://www.northwest200.org/default.aspx

I can't find that video. Maybe if I look under my history a few days or a week back; there was a crew chief I guess, who mentioned the front chatter was to, 'live with it.' So, you figure the bike had new tires, new pads, the suspension was as good as they got it; the bike still chattered.

I tried to pick that guy off like you are picking me off. Should I get an apology from that guy, I am taking a guess, you have no clue of the physics but want an apology for me?