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Thread: Christmas Present

Created on: 12/18/21 11:17 AM

Replies: 14

lytnin


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Location: St. Louis MO

Joined: 02/08/09

Posts: 995

Christmas Present
12/18/21 11:17 AM

My Christmas present to me this year was taking advantage of 2 Wheel Dyno's Christmas sale on a flash for the 2008 ZX14. Last one was from C-Blast in 2016 when he was ripping them off so I sent it in for the latest updates.
It started, runs smooth and fans kicked on and off so that is a good thing. I did fergetted to unhook the PC5 to see how the flash fueling is so I will do that when it gets warmer.
I did ride the SIL 2021 Indian Bobber that I just put on taller bars and longer brake and clutch lines. Did a test ride to his house where my ZRX was at then we went out riding for a little while. I have to admit that the bobber has real good low end and a little fun to ride but not my kind of bike.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ME !!!!!


* Last updated by: lytnin on 12/18/2021 @ 11:19 AM *



2015 FJR1300A 2008 ZX14 2001 ZRX1200

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20703

RE: Christmas Present
12/18/21 12:55 PM

DON'T run the flash and a PC5 map at the same time of course. It probably doesn't matter at all for idle. There's usually no fueling adjustment for idle speed in a PC5 map and probably not with a flash either.

You might just zero out the fuel table on the PC5 rather than bothering to unplug it. The ECU has a higher resolution fuel table than the PC5 does. I think you would be able to take advantage of that even if the PC5 remained connected as long as there was a zero map in the PC5. ...the PC5 won't try to adjust anything at any throttle position/rpm if it has a zero map in it. The signal from the ECU still would run through the PC5 which has a lower resolution fuel table than the ECU though. I don't know if that would reduce the resolution of the flash mapping or not. I'd ask 2 Wheel Dyno. With the Auto Tune and LCD-200 setup I had on my 08, I would like to see how the AFR runs with the flash while I'm riding. Obviously I wouldn't be able to do that with the PC5 removed.


* Last updated by: Rook on 12/18/2021 @ 12:56 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, 2024 ZX-14R

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lytnin


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Location: St. Louis MO

Joined: 02/08/09

Posts: 995

RE: Christmas Present
12/18/21 1:44 PM

It only takes a few minutes to unplug the PC5 harness and plug the stock harnesses back together and I will do that next time I go in the garage.
Mr Rook I am lost on what you are talking about but then I am not much past changing oil on the wrenching ability. If I remember right even Ivan says a reflash is only close on the fuel table and suggest using a PC and dyno in your home area for a fuel tune. I was under the impression that the PC would just over ride the ECU for fuel tuning and when unplugged goes back to ECU fuel tuning. I will unplug the PC5 before riding just to see how close 2 Wheel Dyno did with fuel.
Probably the biggest problem is I am a tech tard and a zero map load is above my knowledge so maybe back to youtube to see how it is done. I had to use youtube to load the generic map in the PC5 because I am to stupid to figure it out myself but I do know how to unplug the PC5.
Next job in the garage is replace the 36 mm carbs with ZX11 40 mm carbs and see if I can figure out how to make them work on my ZRX1200.



2015 FJR1300A 2008 ZX14 2001 ZRX1200

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Rook


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RE: Christmas Present
12/18/21 3:11 PM

It only takes a few minutes to unplug the PC5 harness and plug the stock harnesses back together and I will do that next time I go in the garage.

I'm going to guess you didn't pull the stock T-bodies harness apart to install the PC5 then? Those suckers stick like they're glued together. I pulled them a second time to reposition my PC5 and it was just as hard as it was the first time.

I had to use youtube to load the generic map in the PC5 because I am to stupid to figure it out myself but I do know how to unplug the PC5.

Yes, unplugging it is simplest in theory but actually pulling those plugs is a lot more labor intensive than hooking up a laptop, saving the map file you have and then manually zeroing out the fuel table in the PC5.

If I remember right even Ivan says a reflash is only close on the fuel table and suggest using a PC and dyno in your home area for a fuel tune.

"Only close" is a relative term. Ivan is extremely knowledgeable but I have heard many people say the mapping differences for a generic map created for your bike and your mods at approximately your elevation is only minusculey different from a custom tune.

I was under the impression that the PC would just over ride the ECU for fuel tuning and when unplugged goes back to ECU fuel tuning.

Actually how it works is the PC5 adds or subtracts fuel to/from the fueling data coming from the ECU. That's what the nubers in the fuel table are: +3% of fuel, -15% of fuel....etc for every cell in the PC5 fuel table. The PC5 needs the ECU fueling signal in order to do anything. A flash adds and subtracts fuel in the same way, you have a fuel table in the ECU with numbers programmed into all the cells. If you're ECU is flashed with fueling numbers that have already been adjusted to optimum, a PC5 map would then adjust that fueling data a second time. The PC5 doesn't override, it adjusts the data from the ECU. So if there were 25 units of fuel removed within a rich zone of the flashed map to hit an AFR number of about 13 (which is optimum for hp), the PC5 map would most likely have numbers that subtract about the same amount of fuel from whatever is coming from the ECU. Your PC5 map could very well run the AFR extremely lean in that fat zone that had already been corrected by the flash. Double whammy! Too much of a good thing. You retrieve the map file and save it to your laptop, then highlight the whole fuel table, press 0 and then save the new map, you have a zero map. It adds and subtracts zero fuel at every throttle position/rpm. You run on the fueling from the ECU only. Only possible hitch is the ECU fuel table has cells for about every 10 rpm and much smaller increments in throttle position. The PC5 can only have resolution of 25 rpm max and the throttle position increments are even more crude. I was told by DJ that the PC5 makes a calculation to accommodate the lower resolution of the PC5 map tables. I don't know if making the calculation would be as smooth as just running off the ECU fuel table without having the PC5 intervene. I also don't know if the lower resolution of the PC5 map would matter if the fuel corrections were zero. You'd have to ask your tuner that one.

lytnin, I'm very much in favor of doing things the way you how to do them so they work rather than doing them the faster way. It's like travelling, you're usually better taking the rout you know instead of taking the fast rout that has more turns. If you're going to go to that destination often, might as well learn the faster rout otherwise stick to what you know.


* Last updated by: Rook on 12/19/2021 @ 9:41 AM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, 2024 ZX-14R

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Rook


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RE: Christmas Present
12/18/21 3:16 PM

but if you want to know how to save the current map and manually input all zeros to the PC5 tables, I have a tutorial on here about how to do it. I could direct you to the steps to do that if you're interested. You try pulling those plugs, you might change your mind. I would also ask your tuner about these things though.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, 2024 ZX-14R

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lytnin


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Location: St. Louis MO

Joined: 02/08/09

Posts: 995

RE: Christmas Present
12/18/21 9:23 PM

The map I have now is loaded into the laptop so I am not worried about losing it.
My laptop has a base junk map loaded in it so if I took that one and did highlite then 0 then save to new map then load new map in PC?

If this is a yes then Mr Tech Tard [me] will give it a try but get ready to laff at failure.

1st time trying to get the factory connector apart to plug in the PC5 harness was almost impossible but after doing it again on the same bike it is now just difficult.



2015 FJR1300A 2008 ZX14 2001 ZRX1200

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

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RE: Christmas Present
12/19/21 12:30 AM

maybe add a bit of grease to the plug?Around it.It will come apart very easily if ya do that.It won't hit the connections in there.

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Rook


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RE: Christmas Present
12/19/21 9:33 AM

A film of grease only around the outer face of the plugs might help them slide apart easier, I never tried it. I think the reason the plugs are so difficult to separate is because there are so many pins in there. Each pin has a socket that grips between the male and female halves. Like Grn said, I'd avoid putting grease in those, it might increase the suction not to mention a few other possible problems.

The map I have now is loaded into the laptop so I am not worried about losing it.
My laptop has a base junk map loaded in it so if I took that one and did highlite then 0 then save to new map then load new map in PC?

We’ll call your current map, Map A. You should be able to overwrite Map A which is saved on your laptop. After you zero it, it’s not Map A anymore. Name the overwritten map, “Zero Map”. Then you would need to retrieve Map A from your PC5 and save it on your laptop because that would now be the only existing copy of Map A. Load Zero Map to your PC5 only after you have saved Map A. See, you’re robbing Peter to pay Paul here. If you already have Map A saved in your computer, I'd just overwrite the Map A copy currently in the PC5 on your bike.

If you want to create a zero map on your computer, you could download a free map from DJ and overwrite that. Send it to your PC5 and it will overwrite Map A which is currently in your PC5. You have Map A saved on your laptop so it isn’t lost.

Alternately, you could copy Map A from your laptop to a thumb drive or some other computer. You could turn Map A into a zero map on your computer with the original map safe on your thumb drive or other computer. I guess you might be able to email Map A to yourself. One thing’s for sure, you don’t want to overwrite Map A without it being saved somewhere else that will allow you to bring it back to your laptop.

As far as I remember, there is no way to create a zero map file from scratch. You need a map file to edit rather than creating a new one from the ground up.

So you have the fuel table zeroed, what about the AFR table? Should you zero that as well? I’d have to ask DJ that one but I think the answer is “it doesn’t matter as long as the fuel table is zeroed.” If you zero the AFR table, that would mean the Auto Tune would not generate trims to hit the target AFR. You don’t have Autotune so its a totally mute point. I’d say go ahead and zero the target AFR table to be nice and neat. Maybe ask DJ about that one. I have the 0% throttled position zeroed in my maps. I assume that’s so the bike starts and idles without changing the changing the stock AFR.

OK are you just going to unplug the PC5 now?


* Last updated by: Rook on 12/19/2021 @ 9:41 AM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, 2024 ZX-14R

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lytnin


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Location: St. Louis MO

Joined: 02/08/09

Posts: 995

RE: Christmas Present
12/19/21 4:58 PM

This is the only thing I understooded

OK are you just going to unplug the PC5 now?



2015 FJR1300A 2008 ZX14 2001 ZRX1200

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

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RE: Christmas Present
12/19/21 6:34 PM

Sounds like unplugging the PC5 will the best way to go. You know, when you're doing things you don't understand, you usually run into problems and need to ask questions. That will take more time than just pulling the plugs. I hope it's not too cold in St Louis. I found the hook on a bottle cap opener to be a good tool for tugging those [plugs slowly apart. Top, bottom, top, bottom, top.... a little at a time and not too hard. They come apart after an hour or so. Take a few breaks in between.


* Last updated by: Rook on 12/19/2021 @ 6:35 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, 2024 ZX-14R

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lytnin


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Location: St. Louis MO

Joined: 02/08/09

Posts: 995

RE: Christmas Present
12/22/21 5:03 PM

Loaded a zero map today. Waked up this morning to patially figuring out what Mr Rook was talking about.

IT STARTED !!!


* Last updated by: lytnin on 12/22/2021 @ 5:03 PM *



2015 FJR1300A 2008 ZX14 2001 ZRX1200

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20703

RE&#x3a&#x3b; Christmas Present
12/23/21 4:51 PM

AWESOME!!! See that's way easier than pulling those damn plugs.

Normally a PC5 map does not have any fuel adjustment in any cell of the 0% throttle position column. This is so the bike starts and idles as intended /OEM. If your PC5 map is typical, the engine would start and idle the same with or without the PC5 map, all the 0% TP cells in your PC5 map were probably left at zero by the tuner that made that map.

If you clicked GET MAP and you saw all zero's in your fuel table, you must have zeroed the fuel table and saved it correctly. GET MAP means, "get the map that is stored in the PC5 and put it on the computer screen." Try GET MAP a few times and if the fuel table is all zeros time after time, you got it!

Are you able to open the Auto Tune folder under the Primary Module folder? The Auto Tune folder will have the target AFR table in it. If you're not running Auto Tune, The AutoTune folder might not show on your display in the black box at the upper left of your laptop screen.

As mentioned before, I don't think it would matter if you zeroed the target AFR table in the PC5 map or not. The target AFR table wouldn't come into play unless you ran Autotune. If you have all the fuel table cells zeroed, that means the fueling from the ECU is unchanged by the PC5. There is no Auto Tune in your setup so that can't change the fueling either. I'd call DJ tech support to verify that before running the bike on the road though.


* Last updated by: Rook on 12/23/2021 @ 4:52 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, 2024 ZX-14R

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lytnin


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Location: St. Louis MO

Joined: 02/08/09

Posts: 995

RE: Christmas Present
12/23/21 6:40 PM

Power Commander site had a zero map so that is what I loaded. It was full of zero's plus said zero map.

I cannot help it but I am kinda smart in them ways .....



2015 FJR1300A 2008 ZX14 2001 ZRX1200

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20703

RE: Christmas Present
12/24/21 4:04 PM

Well lytnin, like I've been sayin, take the path of least resistance! If you haven't already, I'd just Get Map one time to be sure you loaded it properly. Congrats, I believe you found the simplest way to get a zero map.


* Last updated by: Rook on 12/24/2021 @ 4:05 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, 2024 ZX-14R

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lytnin


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Location: St. Louis MO

Joined: 02/08/09

Posts: 995

RE: Christmas Present
03/17/22 2:57 PM

2008 ZX14
Well I am kinda glad I let Mr Rook talk me into a zero map to see how it did. Today I put 127 miles on it and it was the 1st time out since the reflash. 25 miles of that was simple country 2 lane road with a few twisties so I could play a little. I did a 20 mph roll on the throttle and almost instantly the front was coming up rather fast and my testies wound up on the passenger part of the seat. I have a Concourse seat with seat beads and my butt took an instant slide back off my part of the seat. My feet stayed on the pegs and I think my arms are a little longer due to the stretch.
The Cblast flash was almost just ok but not until the PC5 went on and then the bike woke up but nothing like this. The throttle response is awesome from just cruising to wide open. Gas milage is 34 on today's ride so that is livable and since I ride for my own happiness the gas milage really does not matter.
I usually only ride the FJR because as I got older {66} I got into comfort over power so the 14 seems really fast but after today's ride the old fat guy is happy.

Thank You Mr Rook !!!!!



2015 FJR1300A 2008 ZX14 2001 ZRX1200

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