Hub, I ALWAYS enjoy reading your commentary, even when I only understand about half of it.

Hub and Vic, as an engineer I am enjoying, and learning from your posts, I am serious when I say please continue.
I learned just enough programming in school to know I shouldn't be doing it!!!

Vic, I had to digest that one more time. The stack, the address line 4+(555)-4 pin, the ABC of the AND OR gates you are sending a job out and the 3 are in play. The PUSH POP MOVE is saying the same thing as I am stuck by the layout of addressing the one's flow (dc) direction and why you can stop the (ac) trying to return to ground and all that.

So as long as I make it real easy, my +2- pins are taken and that leaves 3 basic inputs on the one side. All you are doing is typing into 3 ports that do the exact same thing in a very basic way.

MOVE - Data = 5v.
PUSH - F-Flop = Trigger.
POP - RAM to Ground = Threshold.

Gate ~ +On/Off- Switch = 5v.
Drain ~ +RAM+ is holding a number = Threshold.
Source ~ -Ground- = Trigger.

1 chip has 12v converted down to 5v.
2 is all about in/out.
3 is the handcuff of 3 moves.
4 is the binary.
8 is the count of the pins or legs.

Thanks, Vic. I think I have the terminology in their sectors, yes?

Hub I had to dig pretty deep to write what I wrote the other night. It's been a very long time since I've really dealt with things on this level.

I'm confused by your associations. If I understand what you're saying, no I don't think you have it right. When we say ECU, what we're really talking about is an electronic system that perform a specific function, in this case engine control/management. It's just a toaster, only much more elaborate.

ECU has pinouts. We know this. Pins which connect to analog signaling devices are going to be wired to the appropriate ECU ADCs. Pins which are used for diagnostic and flashing probably run through some kind of ECU IC. It's unlikely that there are any hardware address lines available directly on the connector. Hardware address lines are an addressable location from/to the processing unit that's in the ECU.

The ECU consist of various components. ADCs, DACs, VRs, a processor of some sort, other ICs/ASICs, etc. It's possible that some or all of these components are integrated into one chip(s) but it's not likely, for the sake modularity/re-usability.

The commands I talked about (PUSH, POP, MOV, ADD, SUB, etc.) are just kind of a differnt version of what you write in a computer program. The difference is you can more easily read your computer program code than the processor, the processor can more easily read the POP, PUSH, MOV gobbly gook than you can.

For example, in your C program you write a small program that creates 3 integer variables, adds 2 of them together and stores the result in the other other one. Your code file looks something like this, and you call it IntTest.c
void main {
int firstInt = 5; // CREATE A MEMORY LOCATION AND STORE 5 IN IT
int secondInt = 9; // CREATE ANOTHER MEMORY LOCATION AND STORE 9 IN IT
int thirdInt = firstInt + secondInt; // CREATE ANOTHER MEMORY LOCATION, ADD AND STORE THE VALUES STORED IN THESE MEMORY LOCATIONS
}

I don't know, this might actually compile and run. I don't remember for sure how memory allocation/deallocation works. I don't know if it might require actually partitioning out some memory, I do remember some command like MALLOC or ALLOC or something.

When you compile it, this is what turns your program code into the steps the processor can actually execute. You compile it and it becomes IntTest.exe. If you use NotePad and open IntTest.c, you see your code. If you open IntTest.exe you see mostly gobbly gook. The gobbly gook is the interpretation of your program code that is machine readable.

It's possible to view the set of instructions the processor is executing, one way is called a stack trace. I can't really depict exactly how it would look but it would consist of dozens of more granular steps to accomplish what your program code.

You might see something like these lines dozens and dozens of times, for the most part it won't be understandable.
MOV DX, BX
PUSH DX
ADD AX, BX @ DX
EXEC INT 18

This all just and only pertains to the ECU's processor operating. The bin files contain data the processor is going to process. The bin file most likely has locations for fuel maps, various control settings, etc. Then it also has the data which is the fuel maps, control settings, etc.

Sorry to high jack this thread, but I read this on another post :

KJ6TQG wrote :
Don Guhl, I spoke with him, I had a PCV with an auto tune all lined up but Don said "Why bother, keep it simple I will flash the AFR for your set up and it will be so close you would not be able to tell the difference with the PCV installed. Save the money"

Since when does Guhl say he can get the AFR so close that you won't need a PCV ?

Maybe he is friends with Jeffo?

For anyone not familiar with Jeffo, he tuned bikes over the phone.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/17/2015 @ 10:28 AM *

I'm confused by your associations. If I understand what you're saying, no I don't think you have it right.

My association sort of works against my handcuffing to the gates. I have 4 gates:
Pin 1+ is +On = Data moves as RAM saved.
Pin 2 is Data+ is -Flopped to ground-.
Pin 3 is +Flip = save as in hold in the other pc map. -Flop as in = Dump the RAM data.
Pin 4 is -Resets on its own as it cycles to ground- = Timer side are the 4 pins.

Look at my 4 +/- logic gates as I can only + or - the data. Save or Dump - On or Off.

1. On+ - Data in travel = 5v.
2. Off- - Momentary RAM Dump = Trigger.
3. On+ - FLip to save in the other chip (think 2 maps in the pcv you toggle or set with a -daisy+. No daisy clip? Then it's looked at as -daisy- is not in play is the other map data is being dumped in autotune and +saved+. Look at the pc save the trim in the flip-flop if it. Save it [on the hard drive] or RAM auto-dumps.
4. Off- - is now the -Output- waiting for a signal because it's now set to ground so where is the 5v+? = Completed circle moved 3 ways = 4th variable is how it's set = On or Off of all those ABCgates so the data you wrote travels on one of those 4 legs on the output side of the timer and you chose what gate on the outside was looking inside you wire up a port in the plus or minus of it.

How can I move 3 variables?:

1. I am going to screw a wire into my pcv's timer leg. I have control of one 555 timer so I cannot stop the auto60mhz is a given. I just jump on 1 of 4 speeding rails (leg) is the porthole.
2. I am going to write what was physically done to the port holes and match wiring is gate fl-C+fp move here to -B and A+ is feed+ or I am forced to use this rail of 5v.
3. I am going to run a tre between wires of the harness and flip a flop of one wire, the gates take care of themselves = Limp Mode, send 6 onto a constant 5v so the lightfandgo stays on, not [times off] clicks off to the next analog input number. It's a fixedigital. How so? I could write the timing of but it crossed the line of 3 and shorts. No longer to flip-flop to the next gear. It seems flipped+ to ground-, right? And it sends in one dumped RAM in over and over is the same number, but physically flipped via a resistor not shorting to ground.

That short flips a flop and 6 appears on one wire and the N appears flopped on the other wire. See it? Over and over the fastest timer is inputting the same ohm is the first ping over and over is the resistance is fixed+ = digitally or one number over and over. It is no longer in analog sending where that throttle is? Where that gear is = Digital is not watt the ECU is looking for, Huston, we are receiving the same number over and over [digitally], flip-flop over the 3rd rail NO? Picks or electrically defaults onto rail 2 AND no NOR here gate either. NOR will you mess with this timer. AND here you go as you are forced in this direction. AND now NO, the only way out is Ground-.

Mechanically, you're saying to the machine code, perform 1 of 3 executions:
Send it on its way.
Save it as ROM and place a time limit on it is RAM.
Saved it as a timed Input signal.

I'm going to build a temp gun with screen to show the digital data signals think. I have 4 moving rails. 1 is slow or the constant is a 5v line. Rail 2 for argument sake is half of 1. Then, rail 3 is half of 2 and rail 4 is the fastest square wave'd 1/2'd off of 3's speed.

Rail 1+ = 5v. or pin Control is at the pcv port as a neg- so you install your temp to turn on.
Rail 2- = Flip or dump RAM sooner ~ Kill switch at the shifter. Call this side the threshold.
Rail 3+ = Flop is at neg- to the one AND OR gate so NOR completes the [4th rail] loop.
Rail 4- = Lock is add a posi+ and you hold where you momentarily dumped RAM so you lock-it to read the other map and then plot the learn on autotune for the 2nd map in the chip or you gated the software to get there. So a gate is locked in a circle 3 ways = either/or/not. And said another way ~ Hot+1/NOR-/AND+/OR- = A Completed Circled Looped.

I want the fastest pin so I flip-flop the +/- and walk the RAM on rail-4 is the fastest time saved and the fastest dump on it's own seeing where you are in the throttle angle? If I want to lengthen the time, I switch to rail-1 and here is my clock setting that holds one number for 60 seconds. The 555 is going to automatically 60cyle itself, yes? So, all over again, it dumps RAM in 60 seconds is one rail. 30 seconds is the next speeding rail and so on.

Am I not stuck to 60cycles? The bulb is flickering so fast you see it as on steady. But you can take that speed and blink it at its fixed 60cycle, but time it so the 555 timer is the xmas lights blinking on and off, the construction road signs with the amber blinking or red cycling, the throttle imput/water/air pressure/etc.

I write my code that says in hub-hack-code:

Send rail 1 to the temp screen = 5v.
Send rail 2 to the trigger = momentary switch.
Send rail 3 to the + side so when I ground RAM, it (resets via timer) when to dump/collect the new data.
Send rail 4 to flip a flop of Plus to Minus so you land or are forced to land on a + if I start out as a 0- then the trail is +on-off+on-off-1-0-1-0-1-1-0-000000000000 = Off is the bike and when key is on, 1 sees 0 or said another way... The ECU starts at 0.

When I touch posi+ to -ground, [key turned on] this magnetically moved the neg- to close on a posi+. I now am charged and when I made ground, this touched the hot+ leg and it takes "TIME" to switch to the next magnetic field on the collapse of the tang to touch the next ground or hot in the flip-flop travel. And that time to click a magnetic field and all that flip flopping of a current to walk one click at a time, but the speed is this side short of the speed of light is the step going from + to - one step at a time.

That sort of means in technical terms... I tell 3 rails watt to do and the 4th dimension is the machine language picks the 4th move of the 4 rails. That 4th rail is sent to the OUTPUT = Killed the RAM-refreshed back to the same map cells the ECU was working off of.

If that made it walk for you like I think I see it walk for me, I can't mess up the wiring if you see how I wired the 4 rails. So we are just working 4 legs, not a pile of them, just the input side the analog puts out.

Did I sort of engineer it to work rail for rail? See the timer? The time it takes to leg up? 4 perfect square waves to write off of. Make sense? Thanks for the exercise and this was it. See it Vic? First I want to see how the software addresses the rail work. 4 signals of time that can make a number we are done... Next!

Time to write is who does watt down the daisy chain inside the ECU. Same execution I am doing with the ports is to make 3 of the same moves no keyboard needed. See it yet? The basic [4] moves [3] ways [2] binary the ECU ~ OFF = 0000? New RAM number faster than snot on the release from ground-.

Flip = Save... Autotune just hit the seat of the pants feels so good better save now!
Flop = Dumped [RAM] by the timer... On the fastest rail does it collect data off the throttle angle.
Flip = Send... Send in that assfactor you felt... Call the ball, let it autodump or save? Call it!
Flop = Dumped [RAM] on your call.... Foot Kill switch.

Rk, You're the engineer. Does my wiring match the timer, match the In and Out, match the mechanical of 3 moves and the 4th move is the dimension... i.e., 3D map shows up on the screen or the temp is about to autoclose on the temp gauge screen no 5v?

I'm not about to add 4 more pins on the other side and make it more complicated. I am on the manually set side of the pcv pins. I am not on the software side gating the hardware inside of those 4 legs to the ECU's motherboard.

1. I can loophole it manually.
2. I tell the ECU [pcv] in the software how to gate a threshold water-temp-number in the pc and that window popup. OR, what map I am using.
3. I am stuck with a hot+ wire or a ground- wire move.
4. I can mold Cody into who he is, stick a timer in there and begin a buzzing kind of... She's at the computer screen flipping porn pages and oh look, the vibrator is on page 50 first dates or whatever that 50 porn book turned movie is... Man that Cody is giving her a beating, she meeting the 3 rails and the 4th sends her into a dimension just reading the pages she auto-rails herself via wifi and a keystroke.

See how that timer is so in the hands of someone wiring those rails up? LOL!!!

"Since when does Guhl say he can get the AFR so close that you won't need a PCV ?"...he's come a ways himself;)If he says it,he means it.

He's NO Jeffo...hope Jeffo's doing okay.He mapped my 07...it was good actually.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 3/17/2015 @ 10:36 AM *

Since when does Guhl say he can get the AFR so close that you won't need a PCV ?

My 02 is fixed at time of input. 1 wire out of an 02 is the chemical reaction of hot-cold off that narrow-band. So my time is slow on the chemical calc no 5v at it.

My 02 wired with 5-wires is +hot/ground- and I am stuck with 3 toggles one more time, I now fly like a mother sending input. I have such a wide band of rails of 3 here you go I am stuck with the 3 magnetimes chemical reaction I fly like shit do I send it in fast.

So all I am doing is shifting a 14a to a 12 or 13a as if writing the same pc map as if flashing the same cells like a pcv. If I can preset the ECU in stoic (14.7a) then I can change the jetting via tumbling the binary numbers to match how much timing within a RAM'd saved in a duty cycle.

Rail-1 = Lean
Rail-2 = Mid
Rail-3 = Rich
Rail-4 = Accel

Press Enter =

Vic, I don't know if you are familiar with the tre? There was something instinctive about that move. I could not figure it out, place it, step it? I stepped on it, kicked it down the road for years, everything but walk it move for move. I had the moves, not the steps, say. I had all the switching of on/off 1-0 and all the rest. Once I saw the skeleton of the timer, how the RAM was all about that timer, I knew analog was many, digital was the RAM, but once I saw the saving and auto dump, the flipped flop locked, the ohm as the constant ping first being hit as a single numbered event... The gates appeared, the 3-way hits me and I can play with the 4th dimension or send it to -ground to complete the circle-0000. Seeing how the RAM dumps the same short to ground, not to the next resistor in the gear sensor switching to the next analog = Milestone in the Physical Move! Hindsight it was just too easy.

Buying a pcv, the wooly box, none of it helped as if buying a breadboard. I reversed the engineering all the way to the physical end of it. I am done with seeing a code and the hack to the flapissingame. That says I'm oscillating all of the chemical reaction off the tip of Cody's NOR gate, back in the trousers it goes and if Ivan got any on him, I blame him he do; did it to me and I happened to come across enough put-it-togethers, you can hear my zipper climb the [square] wave and close on the zip.

My theory was way off. Now, my physical theory is spot on hubthink I think I can walk it all sorts of ways. Why? I am stuck like I am stuck in the basics is my 3wV or my 3-Fu/Sp/Com to fall back on is one or the other, yes or both, no? Could be all 3 is a sitter, yes? Yes.

So, my simple words but the years of digging those roots took up. I am back to the same old learning curve.
More variables in the 3 and we do not bring in the 4th dimension is the 3 have to get you there is ohm's wheel, yes? Yes.

Bring it! Vic, you have Rk riveted. You have cara putting the puzzle together. Rook is in there with pc background. I keep applying the milestone I'm on the same rail sorta speak.

Hub

What I need to know, in a few sentences is exactly what you are trying to accomplish? Are you talking about writing a flashing application like WRT? Are you trying to fix a broken ECU? Exactly what is it you want to do?

Vic,
To diagnose the ECU. That I can literally see the tre hack, how it 'stacked' up against that wire. Wire is short to ground. What just occurred? A flip has locked and the RAM is set to one-shot> a single digital signal over and over is a digital reading = See sensor/connector/wires. The ECU is functioning via setting the flipped flop = Not the ECU. Look elsewhere.

in a few sentences is exactly what you are trying to accomplish?

Vic,
To diagnose the ECU. That I can literally see the tre hack, how it 'stacked' up against that wire. Wire is short to ground. What just occurred? A flip has locked and the RAM is set to one-shot> a single digital signal over and over is a digital reading = See sensor/connector/wires. The ECU is functioning via setting the flipped flop = Not the ECU. Look elsewhere.

in a few sentences is exactly what you are trying to accomplish?

To have a solid grasp of not grasping for straws of walking out spk/ful/com and know the difference. Same as diagnosing an expensive box. I can't throw parts at it [blindly], then find out it wasn't the ECU. Compression is like ground. Very first leg is check ground. So the approach is to accomplish a grasp of what I am looking at when I walk up to any computer bike> I understand its generics.

OK. Do I understand the following?

You have an ECU that has coded, your motorcycle will not run.
You cannot afford a replacement ECU. May I ask what your ECU's part number is?
This ECU code is the only thing preventing your bike from running.
What is the code (I know yo've stated it)?
Have you found documentation on the error code? What does the code mean?

This is what you've done:
You have examined the service manual documentation pin outs for the ECU.
You have correctly powered on the ECU (assuming outside the bike), and are monitoring different pins of the ECU, and logging what is happening.
What you describe as gates is what you've logged.

I have hub semantics and then there are trained engineers who know the correct vocabulary of the abstract. We should be on the same page [no offense] but the grasp is missing. I can understand your ABC moves and you seem to not see the 555 timer's moves. That's my observation. Unless you can describe the timer's breakdown, we are at crossroad.

I have 6 ECU's altogether and not one is considered a 'brick.' One is a racing ECU with the pit-rpm-limiter burned out or???, and the other has a fuel or ign miss at a certain X to Y and is an annoying stumble/miss/glitch right at around that rpm. The others are perfect runners. No c39 here on my end.

I'm more in the 'how do I diagnose' the miss? The pit rpm dropout? Someone with a flashed ECU is now a brick via a simple flash? And now someone has a c39?

If I could run remote 5v and remote grounds out of 'no in use' pins off of the ECU, might I fire off the flashed c39 via the pins? Where are we now? See the pin refire out of a non-used pin onto the troubled code?

Sound logical, no? Probably won't work, but the theory is there via the timer, yes? See it yet?

Ok, cool glad your able to ride. Gonna see if I could help you out, or maybe we as a forum could help you out if that was the case.

Hub, unfortunately I don't know. I've reached my limit providing guidance on voltages or signals on certain pins. You're fairly stubborn (as I am), and I think you're fighting me because either it's a little too much or your unwilling to read what I've written and accept it. It makes it impossible for me to try to get to the point of what you're seeing on your scopes and things, and then how the information in the bin file makes the voltages and signals and stuff change.

You were talking about writing programs and C and C++. You cannot write programs in the manner you describe and just like put them on those pins. I mean you can, but not in the way you've reasoned things out. It doesn't work that way.

Keep in mind, I do not have anything remotely close to a complete understanding of how ECUs work. I'm not an electrical engineer. However, my degree and field do have some overlap with electricl engineering (circuitry is often designed in software before becoming hardware). I do understand a lot of what goes on in there. But I can only provide operational theory, I can't tell you precisely why some pin has 3.3 volts or why only one group of 4 pins have voltage at any one time. I'd think the schematics in the manual might have some of this information.

Hub, unfortunately I don't know.

You're fairly stubborn (as I am), and I think you're fighting me because either it's a little too much or your unwilling to read what I've written and accept it.

I'm after the DOS books now. The older the better. I'm chasing parts of the puzzle like I did with the physical parts inside the ECU. Enough to see like you said, someone wrote those on the chip and before that, engineered on paper with all that ohm's law right next to the calculator.

Give me a couple of years, Vic. We'll talk shop about shortcuts on those puppies. Romes, you are so lucky you didn't bet me. Wanna bet on the software?

Hub, unfortunately I don't know.

Honesty. To be honest Vic, this stubborn one could sort of see it and I can see how one would conclude I had a problem when it was just a thought of how one would revive a brick?

This was actually answering the questions you asked, not pertaining to the rest of the email. Looking at it now, I can see how it could be misconstrued as a statement implying frustration, but that's not the case.

Best of luck on figuring out what you want to figure out. As I said 2 things that about you being stubborn and fighting me is you can't understand because it is your perspective that you are not doing these things. You won't accept what I say, because at least the way you've explained what you want to do here cannot not work. When it comes to this stuff there are rules that have to be followed. If you have you have reviewed and understand the entire schematics you understand <<1% of them.

IMO you'd be better off trying to build some pigtail to change voltages or whatever it is you're thinking needs done. you can't just write some C or C++ program, use a couple of alligator clips or whatever, connect to various pins on the ECU connector and hit some upload button. That cannot work. It is 100% absolutely impossible.

IMO you'd be better off trying to build some pigtail to change voltages or whatever it is you're thinking needs done.

...you can't just write some C or C++ program, use a couple of alligator clips or whatever, connect to various pins on the ECU connector and hit some upload button. That cannot work. It is 100% absolutely impossible.

Awesome Hubster. Sorry I don't understand. I'll keep open minded to the things you learn and experiment with and post about.

You should keep in mind I develop world class software applications for a living. I hope you remain open minded to the things I say.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 3/18/2015 @ 4:32 PM *