bean07; Rossi's english isn't that good, and it's easy to misinterpret. I don't recall him ever saying his bike is to blame exclusively. It's usually "we have work to do", or "there are problems we have to work out" type of quotes. I think he was just trying to say Stoner is too inexperienced to blame the bike. He also might have been trying to get into his head. Rossi has 9 championships, and can say what he wants. :-D

privateer; Did you catch the Moto2 race? There was so much passing it was hard to keep track. Very exciting racing.

alg8er, they have raced each other for 5 or 6 years get this into ya

Stoner and Rossi have raced 80 times now and here are some interesting stats.

Stoner has won 31 races to Rossi's 21
Stoner has 54 podiums to Rossi's 48
Stoner has 29 poles to 14
Stoner has 26 fastest laps to 17
Stoner has 60 front row starts to 38
Stoner 1360 points to 1277
Stoner win percentage of 38.5 to 26.6
1 championship to rossi's 2 but an equalizer this year

And this year is not over , or Stoner's era

Casey has 10 more wins, 6 more podiums, 15 more poles, 9 more fastest laps and has scored 83 more points than Valentino Rossi during the 800cc era. Soon he will have the same # of championships and achieved those on 2 different bikes. Most of Stoner's stats came from years on a bike that no other human in the world has been able to ride well. Rossi had his day, but in my mind Casey's level of performance has not been seen in decades. I am happy I got to see two Australian greats perform during their peak (Doohan and Stoner), be thankful you are witnessing another great at his peak.

Rossi is the most overrated rider in History . He has only ever won when he has cheated , bent the rules , had poor competition or clearly the fasted bike.

Cassey was the first rider to come along and stick it to him, and as you can see Cassey Stoner has it all over him

Numbers may have changed sence last counted

31 wins most on a pig, would love to see the list of 10 modern era 500cc or later champions that Cassey will never live up to in your eyes.

Not every championship is worth the same , its more than just statistics, rossi got on Mick Doohan's bike as a start into GP , a winning bike.

Not everyone gets that kind of start

Cassey won a race on a KTM , Imagine the chosen one riding a KTM 125 , and second in the world champion ship in 250 class on an aprilia

* Last updated by: ethin14 on 9/23/2011 @ 1:26 AM *

alg8er, they have raced each other for 5 or 6 years get this into ya
Stoner and Rossi have raced 80 times now and here are some interesting stats.
Stoner has won 31 races to Rossi's 21
Stoner has 54 podiums to Rossi's 48
Stoner has 29 poles to 14
Stoner has 26 fastest laps to 17
Stoner has 60 front row starts to 38
Stoner 1360 points to 1277
Stoner win percentage of 38.5 to 26.6
1 championship to rossi's 2 but an equalizer this year
And this year is not over , or Stoner's era
Casey has 10 more wins, 6 more podiums, 15 more poles, 9 more fastest laps and has scored 83 more points than Valentino Rossi during the 800cc era. Soon he will have the same # of championships and achieved those on 2 different bikes. Most of Stoner's stats came from years on a bike that no other human in the world has been able to ride well. Rossi had his day, but in my mind Casey's level of performance has not been seen in decades. I am happy I got to see two Australian greats perform during their peak (Doohan and Stoner), be thankful you are witnessing another great at his peak.
Rossi is the most overrated rider in History . He has only ever won when he has cheated , bent the rules , had poor competition or clearly the fasted bike.
Cassey was the first rider to come along and stick it to him, and as you can see Cassey Stoner has it all over him

Numbers may have changed sence last counted
31 wins most on a pig, would love to see the list of 10 modern era 500cc or later champions that Cassey will never live up to in your eyes.
Not every championship is worth the same , its more than just statistics, rossi got on Mick Doohan's bike as a start into GP , a winning bike.
Not everyone gets that kind of start
Cassey won a race on a KTM , Imagine the chosen one riding a KTM 125 , and second in the world champion ship in 250 class on an aprilia

+1 well said ethin LOL

* Last updated by: bean07 on 9/23/2011 @ 5:33 AM *

Ago has 122 wins.
Rossi has 103?
Stoner has ?

Name another rider that is aiming for Ago's record after all these decades. You think Stoner will? He'll retire in a few years. You can count only a few greats, or narrow them down to one holding the record, the other trying to break it.

Thanks Hub, I was gna say.... Plus Rossi had a good race, Starting from the pit, 10 sec late! And you could see he and hayden had to take easy on the tire.

Stoner is an Ace, anybody on a moto gp grid is (ask Cal C, he will tell you). Now to win consistently like Casey is doing I can't help but respect the guy. Now will he dominate like Rossi did? Sorry guys, but I skeptical. I'll give Rossi some slack, why? Cause they guy took chances, you can't say that all the bikes he has been on where the best. Look at what he did at Yamaha.
You can't compare Stoner and Rossi on the Ducati! There are two different kind of riders. Stoner will always strike me as a gutsy guy a little bit but not quite like a Max Biaggi, really intuitive while Rossi approach is calculated i.e risk vs reward, art of war style. Both personality has their advantages and drawbacks but I must say that for the Ducati, the cowboy approach, Stoner's, will always prevail. You have to be stubborn and fearless if you wanna win on it! Now, Rossi is what? 31, 32? It's obvious that Ducati didn't think he was going to collect wins when they acquired him. They are seeking his help because they wanna tame that Ducati, make it more rideable. My thoughts is that regardless of how he performs Rossi will always leave a better bike behind, he is known for his inputs. I'm sure he could be more competitive but then he would have to take more risks, which will be detrimental to Ducati long term goal. When Stoner got on the Ducati he had nothing to lose and a lot to prove. Look at the races, from what I recall it was always all out. Podiums or crashes. Now, he is doing superb, why? Well you'd have to be stupid to think he wasn't talented but what gives him the edge is the hondas corner grip (notice the play of words HUB?)which allows him to be really aggressive. I heard it from the guy himself (after the flag).

BTW I like Simoncelli. I think Moto GP is getting too soft, let the guys breathe a little, they are grown. Every sport needs a bully, someone you love to Hate.

* Last updated by: dragking on 9/23/2011 @ 11:05 AM *

Hub
Argo, racing has changed alot, Argo road 2 classes 350 and 500 something your not allowed to do anymore , 350 & 500 side by side for 10 years or more ,so the chance of someone beating his record is about impossible.
Is anyone trying to beat his record no, you would have to race GP for 22 years to get the same access to Championships, then still be getting the best bike every year “impossible”

1st 15
2nd 5
3rd 1
4th 1

Contested 22 championships All from 1965 to 1975
If you cut his numbers down to just 500’s its more realistic.
Argo is still the greatest ever, but changes things

Do I think stoner will, no

Rossi, has now been raceing for 16 years , if your going to have big numbers you not only need to be fast but also be around for a long time.

People who race outside of the European seen, are at a disadvantage, you start racing in Europe and everything you do is counted towards your career stats as your in Gp

Australia and American riders loose the early years of racing at home, those stats never get to be counted
Eg -Ben Spies, losses the AMA tally but Rossi get his 125’s as counted .I would value the AMA plate as being worth more than Rossi’s 125 but that’s just me.

Dragking, I was gna say, a lot more to, but in the end people only see what they want too with racing and racers.

Not every championship is worth the same, the contest between Stoner and Rossi has a clear winner its Cassey Stoner, if stoner had of been around for the last 16 years do you think rossi would have all his 103 wins , you probably do.

* Last updated by: ethin14 on 9/23/2011 @ 4:32 PM *

Dragking, I was gna say, a lot more to, but in the end people only see what they want too with racing and racers.

do you think rossi would have all his 103 wins

ethin; "Rossi, has now been raceing for 16 years , if your going to have big numbers you not only need to be fast but also be around for a long time."
And in order to be around a long time, you have to win consistently. Like I said to bean, it's unfair to say "lets forget the past" just because the bikes were different. MotoGP is the premier class of road bikes, and to win a championship takes a special rider/bike/team combination. To say Rossi has 2 championships is robbing him of many years of hard work, dedication, skill, and commitment. He has 9 GP championships to Stoners
1 1/2. Stoner is a great rider on a great bike, but the list of single championship winners is long.
[list

* Last updated by: alg8er on 9/25/2011 @ 9:00 PM *

Remember people saying Michale Schumacher , was the best bla bla bla, take away the fastest car and you've still go the same driver but not the results, I think its the same all over.

My pick would be Stoner will be gone at the end of next year. he still has to win this year its not in the bag yet.

If he goes out with extra titles maybe 3 that would be fitting for his career.

You can't compare different riders from different eras, Ago, Hailwood, Roberts, Doohan, Rossi etc to say who was best you can only compare riders that have raced each other.

Rossi and stoner have raced each other. and since 2007 it may turn out that championships and race wins will favour Stoner.
I wish VR was still on the Yamaha, but Cassey has been robbed a shot at him

As for Simoncelli, is a great talent but is also older than stoner I think, and is running out of time, has never one a race would love to see him do well on 1000cc next year.
I think Honda have pulled some HP out of his bike lately, but that's just my thought.

Marc Marquez, is being groomed as the next chose one by Dorna and Repsol. He's Getting a Rossi style entry to GP they will expect him to carry the flag like Rossi has done for the next 5-10 years , but we will see if he can win on the big bikes, Pedro will loose his ride if stoner stays

You also have to consider the quality of riders Rossi had to race against in those early years, Lorenzo , Stoner aren't lucky enough to have arrived in an era on there own.

You can debate it for ever, just go round and round, there all amazing

I agree with you Ethin... everytime you talk about Rossi dominance... there is the fact that there wasn't really somebody to compete with him. I understand that's why it's hard to compare them. However "you only as good as your competition" so we can't really take that into account. I wanna think that Stoner is going to win this year because if he were to lose, the discussion we're having would have been useless. Simoncelli? his age, his riding style, the odds are not in his favors that's why I like him. I would hope that Stoner rides for at least the next five years, they need him in motogp and with 3 motogp he would live up to his reputation and talent.

alg8er, rossi is there because of the past not because he's winning consistently, and the list of riders with better than 31 wins and 54 podiums is very short its not just about championships it's about races as well.

There have been many great racers that have won races but no title, they should not be swept aside because they haven't won 9 championships or even 1, Danny Pedrosa is one of them. Great rider but will miss out I think.

dragking, if stoner was to loose this year the conversation would still be relevant as Stoner has won more races than rossi in the 800 era but not as many championships.

Would love to see them throw away the Max fuel limit, to help bigger riders carry there weight around, also should allow more testing, and turn off all traction aids and electronic controls.

and go back to 2 strokes, maybe 750cc fuel injected 4 cyl bikes, that would be insane

* Last updated by: ethin14 on 9/24/2011 @ 11:20 PM *

dragking, if stoner was to loose this year the conversation would still be relevant as Stoner has won more races than rossi in the 800 era but not as many championships.

Hehehehe. You guys gna make me buy that 50 bucks pass to watch the remaining races! But then again I can go down to the bar... I get to show off my 14, check out beautiful women and drink a home made guiness all of that while watching the gp...

This is 'factory see what we can do' bike(s). We agree and follow rules. May the best model win. What are the odds, you put Stoner back on a duc, see if he can't pole or win on it. You've got two long in the tooth riders on those ducklings. I don't know if they are not pushing those bikes to their potential. Why did they win one time with Stoner, the formula goes sour there, but the Stonerecipe continues on a Honda.

Don't give me that little pilotshit. 3rd from the right, top row. This kid can shoot into corners and overtake before you can sit up to miss him; it's done he is gone!

Hey ethin, Era BeerHA! I can only bring up my own experience and go round and round with these greats. If there are 52 weeks out of the year, I'm looking at 50 times I could go racing with 2 or 3 different venues. If you had some 'one hit wonder' batting 50 wins in a year... Times 16 years = YOu do the math as to how many wins you can gather within 2. [do the math again years] = 123 wins.

I'm just saying, you need that drive, attitude, will, competitivedge to do damage. I doubt you need luck. All I can say is, if you want it that bad, it happens.

I forgot to add the url for... Guess who, dragking?

you put Stoner back on a duc

He was faster last year on duc than on the Honda this year,

Rossi is one of the greatest for sure, but now after the leg break when maybe he should have retired, he has the biggest challenge of his career, at 32 he's looking less like the Rossi of old and more like and old Valentino Rossi.
He might turn it around but at what cost

You look at that photo and say who's got the hunger the most, they all got the dream,

that drive, attitude, will, competitivedge to do damage

The ageing of these guy's , will be the winner, in that pack there all getting on a bit, some boy racer will turn up soon, dumb, full of cum and made of rubber, no injuries and no fear.

and they all look even older still

But then again I can go down to the bar... I get to show off my 14, check out beautiful women and drink a home made guiness all of that while watching the gp

dragking , now that's just not fighting fair, you win

I forgot to add the url for... Guess who, dragking?

I wanna see the boys from the isle of MAN Hub

Here is another 1 from Ireland, it's call the "MINI TT". You could bring your Aprilia over there Hub, but don't forget the rain Boots loool

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xl8x3u"></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl8x3u_the-liteul-tourist-trophy-1-2-video-officielle-moto-journal_auto" target="_blank">THE LITEUL TOURIST TROPHY 1/2 ( video officielle...</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/moto-journal" target="_blank">moto-journal</a></i>

I'm just saying, you need that drive, attitude, will, competitivedge to do damage. I doubt you need luck. All I can say is, if you want it that bad, it happens

dragking , now that's just not fighting fair, you win

* Last updated by: dragking on 9/25/2011 @ 4:56 PM *

ethin14; "rossi is there because of the past not because he's winning consistently, and the list of riders with better than 31 wins and 54 podiums is very short its not just about championships it's about races as well." I should have said "podium finishes" instead of wins, but the point is still valid. If he wasn't consistently at the top, he wouldn't have been around for 16 years. Or are you dismissing everything but the last couple years? I do agree about the leg break taking his edge. Sometimes it can take years for a broken leg to return to normal, if ever. As far as Rossi retiring, it's unfortunate he couldn't switch to formula 1 when it was offered. That might have been interesting.

No the only thing I was talking about was the Head to Head contest with Stoner. what he did in his early years still stands
VR is at Ducati because they thought Stoner had a problem not the bike, and the blind faith in VR made them make decisions on emotions and not on facts
They thought, like Burgers said, they could fix it in 80 seconds, the Duc that Stoner and his team couldn't fix in 3 years.

Rossi and Burgers look like fools compared to Stoner and his team

Rossi failed on a winning bike

He has failed on many bikes sense, GP10 GP11 GP11.1 GP11.2 and still counting sine he went to ducati , if he wins tomorrow he would have still failed on a bike Stoner won on. When they build the fastest bike in the field he will win again, Just like Schumacher with the fastest machinery he could win, with out it, he looks ordinary,

Stoner won on a bike that was a PIG, not the fastest or the most consistent, he crashed a lot because he took it to the edge to win and copped a lot of crap from everyone about being a crasher and not pushing it hard enough.

Especially from you Hero Rossi and Burgers.

Stoner is under rated, when you consider he beat Rossi on an Yamaha M1, Rossi at his best ,with Stoner on a PIG Duc
He will never win 9 times, but he beat Mr 9 Times at his best.

ethin14; I never said Stoner wasn't talented. However, the current GP bikes aren't the same bikes from 3 yrs ago, let alone last year, or even last month. Stoner's current bike has a definite advantage over the entire grid. Rossi is not riding the same bike that Stoner rode, and the rest of the grid isn't on the same bikes that beat Stoner before either. The bikes are changing and "upgrading" week to week. I remember hearing an announcer say Pedrosa was pissed because Stoner got an upgraded part that wasn't available to him. Anyway, I don't know why I'm even posting. What started this whole debate was my comment that Stoner's picture on the Motogp grid on TV reminds me of my sister-in-law, that I hate. Every time I watch the races his picture comes up and it ruins the race for me. I don't care how talented he is, he should get a new pic, or retire.

she must be a pretty woman!!!!

dragking it is obvious , she is a beauty queen and alg8er is almost blind ,clearly we have found some common ground.

The only advantage this year at Honda is Stoner, he was the fastest the day he got off that PIG and onto a Honda that was last years bike back in November, and at all the practice sessions over Xmas

there are 4 of those Honda's and without Stoner Lorenzo wins again

Pedro, Dovi, Sim all great riders on the same bike, The Honda has no advantage, other than stoner

Next year instead of turning up to every track as a rider and as a team, trying to set the bike up for the first time, he will have a full seasons setup of data to go off, should be a big help.

And yet you say this seasons results ,its all the bike, the bike has a clear advantage.

Rossi did ride the exact bike that stoner road , a winning bike ,and was an epic failure and with his get development skills it has now gone backwards.

He's a great rider on a great bike now, but he showed very little in 125 or 250 GP, or even the big bikes except for 1 championship, and this season

31 Wins

This is were it all started , where it will all end, we'll have to wait till they retire and see

We are lucky to be able to watch such great riders, love to see more of that slow HD footage was amazing , "of Stoner of course"

Pea was with Honda before Stone-Her [Dis IS for alg8's her] sat on that bike. Maybe Stone-Her is right now the development rider. Or maybe he can just jump on something and go. I'd call someone over at MB and have him as Hamilton's team mate. He might find 4 wheels are just as easy.

Over here Hub Wayne Gardner went from 2 wheels to 4 ,and raced production cars, it was a less than spectacular result.
He had the nick name Captain Kaos , didn't realise that a 4 door sedan didn't fit through the same size gap as a Motogp bike. and was a bit of a disaster.

Not to say Cassey couldn't do it , but would need a few practice days for that one.

Read a story about Rossi test in the Ferrari , not the one released by the Motogp media that said he was as fast as Rubens Barrichello pushing the rossi media agenda, but the one that said he did very well and was very fast but not as fast as Rubens Barrichello times.

A gap of a second or two, may even be a bigger thing on those 4 wheels than on 2 I think.

* Last updated by: ethin14 on 9/26/2011 @ 10:04 PM *