You have a mechanical lock as the o-ring compresses. It is more the o-ring compression being lighter on the twist off, not the grease. Your trick was not to compress the cartridge metal onto the metal so hard as to compress the cartridge to case.

Guys would sheer the oil bolt head off Honda CB750's getting at the element. If you pressed more than a quick turn and stop till you felt the o-ring collapse on the case, you stopped there, you were about to have a battle with wrench and bolt head. Then, when I had bikes come back for service, they came off a lot easier if I installed them under compression. But I found more I had to chisel off more bolts than then ones coming back on the compression fit.

Same goes with the oil cap. If you need to take a pair of pliers to that cap, you compressed the rubber to the point compression is now metal to metal buckling and distorting on each other slightly. I more or less snap my fingers having the cap in it's kissed the o-ring. I then lock it down by a snap of my fingers and she will never move and be easy to remove by hand with ease next time.

So, I sort of disagree and I rather walk my own junk science as I use the cap as a jr. oil filter with o-ring to compress to hold.

I agree and kinda disagree with hub on that one...all torques unless specified are considered to be "dry" torques and not "wet" torques, where the threads are not supposed to be lubricated prior to being put on...A dry torque compared to a wet torque of the same amount of foot-pounds is considerably less "tighter" because of the increased friction so you can't spin the nut or screw down as much like you can with a lubricated fastener. As far as the o-ring, or packing, it is designed to be basically squeezed between the joint to provide the seal, that's why you are supposed to replace it every time you break that joint. They are considered high pressure seals. As far as the oil cap, in reality it's stupid to replace the packing every time, but sometimes because of the heat expanding the rubber will make it "stick" making it harder to take off after a while of staying on between oil changes...that's just something that you have to deal with or modify how much you tighten it to kind of avoid that, no big deal really because you will definitely see if oil is coming outta there. So in reality you will never have metal on metal contact by tightening too much, unless that o-ring is not the right size or damaged to where it rips and allows this to happen. This is just something from my experience as a career mechanic for the airlines, or actually the "theory" behind it at least, lol.

1minerman:

I followed your instructions to the letter this weekend, and I have some concerns. I let the green stuff drain out (left the drain plug out for about an hour). Put the Engine Ice in, and it took less than 3 quarts (I think it should be 3.6?). With engine running, while squeezing and tapping hoses to get air bubbles out, coolant came out where the cap goes on (quite a bit, actually), and it was more green than blue. Leads me to think that there was quite a bit of the old coolant still hiding in there somewhere.

Put the cap on and heated it up, then let it cool down, check the level (all this 3 times), and it was still full.

Went for a ride, and the heat bars went as high as they ever did, maybe even higher. Now I'm wondering if I should go through the whole thing again (drain and refill) to get more of the old coolant out. Or if maybe I still have some air in there.

Any ideas or suggestions appreciated...

Thanks. -bg

bg, Sorry to hear that you are having problems...

I checked the bottle that was left after I filled mine and there is maybe a 1/2in. left in the bottom of a 1/2 gallon jug, so after filling the overflow and the system with maybe a little spillage, I figure i used between3.6 and 3.8 gallon.

I do not truely know what mixing the ethylene and propylene glycol would cause, but Engine Ice reccommends against it on the jug and on their website. This is the quote from their site on the FAQ page:

Can you mix Engine Ice with other products or types of coolant and antifreeze?

We recommend you never mix ANY TYPE of coolant and antifreeze products. One reason is that propylene glycol and ethylene glycol do not mix well together. Another reason is that just because the base fluid may be similar, other additives and ingredients may not be. Just as you would not mix oils, and for the same reasons, you should not mix coolants and antifreezes.

So I know it is expensive stuff, but if I had any doubts I would drain and refill.

When I drained mine, I had the radiator all the way off installing the headpipes, so I knew for sure mine was drained, but there is a couple of things you can do while draining,(or maybe you already have??)

Did you loosen your filler cap when you drained the old out?(tight it will cause an airlock)
Did you squeeze your hoses to see if any could be detected, and pushed out?

Engine Ice says you can use white vinegar and distilled water to flush your system...

How often do I need to change it and are there any special requirements?

Most every coolant product will work best when changed somewhat regularly…at minimum, we’d recommend once a year.

For racing applications, we actually recommend twice per year. The cleaner you can keep your cooling system and the fresher you can keep a fluid, the better it will perform. There are no special requirements for using Engine Ice. For any coolant and anytime you are changing coolant, we recommend a simple solution of distilled water and white distilled vinegar, both available at your local grocery store.

1. Mix the water/vinegar at 50/50
2. Fill system with the solution
3. Run engine until warm
4. Let cool
5. Drain
6. Run clear water through to rinse out vinegar.
7. Fill with coolant of choice.

This is the same as cleaning your coffee maker. The vinegar is acidic enough to clean out and contaminants and residual coolants, yet it won’t harm your seals and gaskets.

twice a year, even in racing apps, seems a little excessive to me...

Filling:
Did you run the engine with the radiator cap removed??
This needs to be done until you see no more bubbles in the coolant, also while this is going on tap and squeeze your hoses a couple of times to remove any air that maybe trapped in them.(Be careful when squeezing, because coolant can be discharged out the filler cap, if you squeeze to forcefully..)

Run until enngine is warm and no bubbles.
Stop the engine and add coolant upto filler neck.
Install radiator cap
Start the engine and warm until the fan comes on, stop the engine.
After the engine cools, check the level of the reserve tank.

Hope this helps, bg...

Thanks for the additional input, 1minerman. I think I will do another drain and refill, and maybe the water/vinegar in between. -bg

Hey bg, did you get it to work or found out why it was running hot? I'm about to put engine ice into mine so wondering.

Alex:

I do believe that I discovered something that wasn't in the shop manual regarding changing coolant.

The instructions from 1minerman in the first page of messages of this thread are excellent, but I would add one thing...

If you are changing from one coolant type to another, it is important to get all of the old coolant out of there. On my first try, I followed the instructions, but there seemed to be some of the old green coolant mixed in with the blue Engine Ice. I was going on a long trip, so I didn't want to take a chance.

I bought another gallon of Engine Ice and drained it again. After it was all drained (I thought), I unhooked the two hoses from the right side of the radiator. One is large (over an inch in diameter) and is connected near the top. The other is smaller (maybe 1/2 inch in diameter) and connected near the bottom. I unhooked them from the radiator end and lowered them down. Quite a bit of additional fluid came out of the hoses and out of the bottom of the radiator. It was probably another cup or so (?) of fluid.

So if you are switching from one type to another, you might try this. Also, I filled and drained the radiator a couple of times with distilled water, starting the engine after each filling. The second time, the water came out real clear, so maybe doing this once is sufficient.

Learned a lot on that one... -bg

Sweet, really appreciate it. I'm really not mechanically inclined so this would be the biggest job I ever undertaken on a bike, every bit of info helps! :P

I'm really not mechanically inclined

You know, it funny that you should say that. I'm not either.

When I first got the bike, I wasn't interested in learning how to work on it myself. Thought I would have the dealer do it.

Then I had a few problems with the (only) local Kawasaki dealer that made me lose confidence in them. First problem was that when I took the bike in to have some new tires put on, there was a bad scratch on it when I got it back. It happened while it was in there, and it's the only scratch on the otherwise perfect bike.

Then, after someone here posted a message that he was charged over $200 by a dealer for a coolant change, I went in and asked them what they would charge for that. They said something like "It'll only take 1/2 hour or so. Most of these modern sport bikes let you change the oil and the coolant without removing the fairings, which is what takes some time." Well, looking in the shop manual, I realized he didn't know what he was talking about. Maybe he wasn't a mechanic himself, but he should have asked one before he gave me an answer like that.

After changing the coolant myself, I understand why a shop might charge $200 to do it.

Another benefit is that on a recent trip I took, I had a radiator puncture, and the experience I gained changing the coolant myself helped out a LOT.

Soooo... when we got back from our trip, I ordered a nice set of metric tools, and I'm prepared to dive in -- at least in the shallow end. I would probably change the radiator myself (when I find a replacement) and install a new exhaust system myself, rather than take it in to the dealer. I'll continue to let them put new tires on it, though, as I don't want to get into that. -bg

Nice, that's what's happening to me as well. I so far trust the dealer, but heard one too many stories about dealers screwing up.

I couldn't replace coolant yesterday, will try today... spent an hour yesterday just getting fairings off of left side - right side came off no problem, but left was a bitch for w/e reason! I pulled so hard on some spots, I was confident I am going to break something.

Let me know what tools you got and how they work out for you - perhaps I'll get a set, too. I have a few tool sets, but not metric, and not very bike-friendly.

Btw, learned importance of rear bike stand... overfilled oil yesterday lol... now have to drain some. Or is it not a big deal if oil is 3-4mm above the top line?

bg, tires aren't that bad either and at least when I put my wheels back on I know that they are torqued properly and not just 3 white knuckles tight , I don't really trust the mechanics because most shop are flat rate and they don't care if they see the bike again.

Minerman & bgordon - big thanks!! I changed to Engine Ice today and although I made some mess on the floor, fingers, and even some on my face (don't ask) it's done! Had to follow instructions from both of you to make it work. Like bg said, there is a lot of additional coolant in those hoses on the right side of the bike, glad he mentioned it. I had to flush twice with water - first time with water/vinegar mix, second time just distilled water. Also ran with radiator cap off - lots of air bubbles came out!

Engine Ice + Muzzy Fan and it seems to be running noticeably cooler and haven't gotten past 4 bars yet. Can't wait to exchange exhaust to get rid of catalytic converter and maybe do the front fender mod.

Glad we could help, and glad you got through it OK... -bg

I wanted to post a bit of follow-up information regarding changing coolant after a bit more experience with it.

I ended up replacing the radiator after receiving a puncture on a recent trip, and there are a couple more things that I learned about the cooling system, in addition to the notes above.

One is that the hoses do contain enough fluid that, if you're looking to change to a different type of coolant (like Engine Ice), it's probably worthwhile to disconnect ALL of the hoses from the radiator and drain them. This is easy to do, and it gets rid of quite a bit more fluid. First time I drained the cooling system per instructions in the service manual, I ended up putting in about a pint less Engine Ice than the 3.6 quarts I was expecting to put in. Turns out there was that much old coolant left in the hoses, and it doesn't drain out when you remove the drain plug.

If you don't want to disconnect the hoses, you'll probably have to drain, fill with distilled water, run it a bit, and repeat 3 or 4 times to get all the old stuff out of there.

The second point is that the service manual suggests that after you fill the radiator with coolant, you start the engine with the radiator cap off and tap the hoses to get out air bubbles. While this seems important, I found that as the engine heats up the coolant, it expels quite a bit of it out the radiator opening where the cap goes. So if you are going to do this, don't fill it all the way. It might be better to tap the hoses without the engine running to get out the air bubbles, then put the cap on and run it for a few minutes, let it cool, and check the level once again (topping off if necessary) before putting the fairings back on.

Your mileage may vary... -bg

* Last updated by: bgordon on 7/24/2009 @ 8:09 AM *

Tapping the hoses is for the wussies... I squeezed them and let the coolant go out of the cap opening and onto my floor, like a real man who drinks bud light! ha-ha

But, if you're smarter than me and like your garage floor clean and your dog alive, who just might happen to be snooping around, I can attest to bg's advice as being good! Except I disagree a bit with the part about draining with water as a substitute to detaching hoses - if you do that, you'll flush old coolant out of the hoses, but you'll end up with water in them, and Engine Ice label explicitly prohibits mixing with water or anything else for that matter. DO flush with water, but DO still detach hoses after last flush in order to get water out of the hoses.

It's of course not fatal to have distilled water there or anything, it just decreases effectiveness of the product, which kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing, right? Sure, it may not even be noticeable, or maybe it is, I don't know, I'm not a rocket scientist (yet? ehh I wish), but detaching hoses is easy and quick so don't be a baby and do it right the first time.

Just remember: when you detach the hose, the coolant is all the way at the top of it, so have a reservoir ready right under the detached end of it to catch the coolant b/c as soon as you move OR tilt the hose left, right, or down, the coolant will start coming out. Don't be dumb and try to move it straight down like I did, thinking that if I don't tilt the hose the coolant will stay inside and forgetting the simplest law of liquid physics, i.e. that liquids always keep horizontal level.. (that is, b/c one of the ends of the hose is still attached and stays higher when you move the other (detached) end of it down, the liquid will just come straight out of the detached end no matter if you tilt or not!)

* Last updated by: AlexTheNewb on 7/24/2009 @ 8:39 AM *

Point well taken about the draining water vs. detaching hoses. I would probably recommend the complete hose detachment and maybe one flush with distilled water and another hose detachment, just to get the old stuff completely out of there. That's if it's important not to mix any of the old with the new, as it seems to be with Engine Ice.

Unless a bit of distilled water is no better than a bit of the old coolant. Then the flush wouldn't be important. -bg

Agree on the flush - I'd recommend at least 1 even with hose detachment. I think a bit of distilled water + Engine Ice is better than old coolant + Engine Ice b/c both coolant and engine ice contain distilled water, but they also contain a ton of other chemicals that are different between the two, so it's the inter-mixing of those that's probably a cause for alarm, whereas an ounce of distilled water will simply dilute Engine Ice, but 1 ounce v. 1 gallon = non-significant.

+1

I think we nailed it. Hope this helps somebody... -bg