Good to hear both of you guys are on the mend and will be riding again soon.

@Grn - What's the ETA on that new bike?

...hope all your stuff turned out good?

Six days in Palm Springs, doesn't get much better than that, you get off the plane and walk into an open air terminal, just a canopy roof. That pretty much says everything about the climate, picture perfect weather all six days. If I had money, I'd be living there.

It's pretty small though...once you've been being there for a while....ETA on bike....UNK at this time...probably in the middle of the Pacific or something right nowLOL!!!!BUt yeah...Palm Springs is cool...they get a BUNCH of bikers there during the Summer months....streets all lit up and shit.Kinda cool.VERY much like Vegas...in the small term.

I just flashed...hell...you were there...you know!LOL!!!!!!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/18/2012 @ 1:52 PM *

took a brake from the forum so I apologize if I'm bringing up two pages old stuff...
I actually think Green should have applied some light braking post apex. Looks like he panicked and ceased to push on the left handlebar, a little braking would have made the bike easier to steer and he would probably have made it. I used to look too far and therefore turn early on left sweeping turns and a tad of front brake plus more leaning always got me out of trouble. The thing with target fixating is that even if you can't keep your eyes off the thing, positioning your head in the right spot helps a lot. Also if he was hanging off (just half a chick), he would have needed minimal input to steer and suspension would have been working optimally. I used to hug the center line on left enders but found out kissing the outside line and steering lane is cool cause you get to lean the bike and you can see oncoming traffic.On blind right enders, I still kiss the center line before turning cause I can see and be seen by oncoming traffic sooner and can spot debris on the side of the road.

Bottom line: Green sign up for track days and get better riding gear (jacket and pants)!

They wouldn't let me go.They said somethings wrong they just couldn't find it.GRRR.I almost signed myself out till I found out I'd have to foot the bill.Yikes.My cf ram air tubes are laying on the porch.Can't ride anyway my groin might rupture.I just did an echo cardiogram.Tomorrow it's an adominal ultrasound.I feel great why can't they quit fucking with me.Should of just went riding like I planned in the first place.
Craig

"Green sign up for track days and get better riding gear (jacket and pants)!"....no track around here....as far as the gear goes....I have to say...there wasn't a scratch on me.....except a rash spot(small one)on my left under elbow....from the inside of the jacket...and the pants were untouched.They cut the shit outta em gettin em off me....totally ruined a pretty much brand new set of riding duds.The jacket was a DSX Cortech(heavy denim with armour)......the pants....AGV Kevlars...loose fit.I was amazed they actually held like they did.Honestly...not one tear or rip...nuthin.Now...the Arai...it didn't fare so well....deep scrapes across the brow and a deep gouge right at the neckline on the rear of the lid.No helmet...I'd have been killed no doubt.My ankle top shoes(hiking boots)...well...I'll never know really if wearing my other over ankle boots would have saved my ankle...I think maybe they would have....but......It was a pretty hard slam....IDK.I'm pretty sure that had I been wearing my full on 'track boots'...my ankle would have survived.Yup.I think so.Got folded pretty good...good enough to snap the bones in there.I've NO idea how or where I hit...the bike...it's there....me?IDK.

"he panicked"....Well....it certainly was an "oh shit' moment....not really any time to panic...just kinda time enough to realize..."geez,too late to do much now....I'll see if I can get er upright and hit that dirt straight on"....course,it WAS too late by thenLOL!I actually WAS trying to slow with that front brake just a tad...lightly...I remember that just as she went offroad.No time....ran out of time.....you can see it was VERY FAST...the whole sequence of things.

I know I could have made it...I've made that turn many times....I just veered wide because of looking at that Van instead of staying focused.That's really all it was.Not the first time I've allowed myself in deep curves to focus on the oncoming traffic...BAD NEWS....very.I started consciously reminding myself..."stop looking at those cars....look where you want to be"....but somehow...I forgot that this day.It's just that alot of drivers here drink...and cross that centerline frequently.That's how I got into that habit to begin with.A quick look and scan for their lane position is all I need to do...not 'keep watching'...you automatically tend to veer 'wide(away)' from em without really noticing....until something like this happens....having that corner tighten up at the end there didn't bode well either.Once off the groove...those shoulders come at ya quick on that particular turn.

I know that sounds 'counter' to 'look where ya want to go'...but in this case....I ended up veering wide for whatever reason...and it cost me.Normally,I'd enter close in to the centerline,then adjust as apexing.That one...I didn't.I forgot actually.

Rook knows that feeling....'she isn't turning dammit!"...sucks really.No time to freak...just..."oh shit".

Your mind is saying..."c'mon baby,we need to lean"...but your brake brain is saying.."if you apply brakes she's gonna stand up....when ya need lean"...kind of a catch 22 deal.Plus....the concern of lowsiding is always there in something that radical...and it is radical once you cross the line between.."I've got room"...and..."FUC$...that shoulder is gettin me".Just glad I survived.....very fortunate.

Every road eventually has some surprises...here...there 3 particular curves that are very easy to loose it on where I ride.One's an 's'...with a guardrail at the top.tight approach,then an immediate left hander and out.But if you're carrying a bit too much speed,you risk slipping at the first right hander cause the road surface is flaked with shards of broken cement,instead of asphalt.Makes it very scarey to dig in deep on that right hand curve...then...you straighten up and you're into that lefty,which is slightly 'off camber'...so the speed you 'think' you can go in with ends up being something that can cause the bike to swing right...and basically,the same deal can happen as in that video....the shoulder comes up real fast,and the guardrail.Scarey.Unexpected actually...that top off camber deal.It LOOKS fine...until your in it...then you realize...GEEZ....I AM pushing left...wtf?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/18/2012 @ 3:46 PM *

You know...with the smoothness and power delivery of the 14...it's VERY easy to overshoot things...like setting up for a curve and such.Even if you've done it a hundred times....and got it right.There's ALWAYS a chance you'll misjudge and blow it.That's what I did....focus....less speed...I could have made it.

Next time ya go out....out on the highway...get up to speed...stay there for a minute or so...then....abruptly pull off into that shoulder asphalt spot up ahead without thinking too much about it.....see if you can stop right where you want to in that patch of road(as you get closer...pick a spot you want to stop at[as if it were a car pulling out].Or pulling off onto the shoulder to 'stop'...see if you can pick your stopping point and match it once you start doing the maneuver.It looks simple...easy.That 500+ lbs bike is gonna end up 'sometimes' being a handful when ya haul er down.The ride quality can be deceptive.Plus ya hear all the time..."the 14's got GREAT brakes"...it does....but that won't stop physics from kickin in.Add a little gravel in there....wohoo!great brakes or not....that badbird will want to keep rollin!If you MISS your mark....you end up in the hospital(imaginary that is).EASY to forget it's only two wheels with a 5 inch contact patch...if that.

My new goal is to slow down some....be more sane.I'm very lucky up to now to still be riding...Just look at my vids....a lot of foolish riding in there...I don't get a kick out of seeing me ride like that.Makes me almost sick thinking...."what if"...and there's a LOT of 'what if's' to go around.I'm not invincible.

The faster I go...the less time I have to make changes.I've been lucky for sure.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/18/2012 @ 4:10 PM *

You lost me please explain: I always thought that if you apply brake she's going to lean easier, that's why you trail brake for no? Now when you ACCELERATE she's going to stand up.

Panicking doesn't necessary means telling yourself "oh shit" it can sometimes just being tense on the handlebar and not be able to provide any input. It's easy to say from the passenger seat but you should have applied the brake as soon as you veered off and when you found out you couldn't make it let go off the front brake and try to lock the rear wheel on the gravel which is a much preferred low side. At the end of the day you're ok so that's all that counts. I mentioned the gear cause I read you had a bruised kidney or something. You should get something for your chest as well!

You know....It's always been my understanding that applying brakes in a curve would cause the bike to stand up...it feels that way to me anyhow....rolling in a curve and applying rear brake...it seemed I needed to add MORE countersteer.I could be totally wrong on this.Trying to avoid the shoulder on a few occasions....applying brakes did not help to lean more...it went faster into the shoulder.I assume it was 'standing up'...maybe not?I do realize that brake application during certain moves will cause the bike to fall into,rather than out.Low speed stuff...it will fall into the curve or whatever.Maybe I've been doing it wrong for years?IDK.I always trailbraked to adjust velocity,not countersteer ability.??????

Torn kidney...lost 25 % of my left one...ripped right off somehow????

Ya...my chest definitely took a hit...still sore from that...but it's much better!

"As simple as this sounds, our instinctual panic responses are programmed to do the opposite: tense up, target fixate, close the throttle and grab the brakes. By either avoiding panic by increasing our speed and lean angle in small increments or reprogramming our ability to overcome panic when we feel it begin to take hold, we can keep ourselves out of trouble and in control".

Read more: http://www.sportrider.com/tips/146_0904_controlling_cornering_arc_with_throttle/viewall.html#ixzz29hfyZIKv

That about covers my deal.....yup.the perfect crash .I watched again....I had plenty of lane to lean into had I stopped looking at that shoulder line.......Fixated...definitely.I remember watching that line get closer and closer....until....I was crossing it.Should have been looking where I wanted to go.....She still had lean left in her.If I'd have caught it a bit sooner.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/18/2012 @ 7:38 PM *

I've almost stood on my rear brake but it won't lock up.Not that I want it too but I'd like to see where the limits of traction are.Found out when the front ends traction is as long as I run Pilot Power sticky tires.Might even go with pilot pures.I think my gallbladder is bad.Every other test has been great.Can't believe my heart 20 years of hard drinking 30 years of smoking and no artery blockage or valve damage.My mom never drank smoked or used druggs and by 65 she had a tripple bypass a hole in her heart and a valve replacement.You never know when the Lord says to come home.
Craig

I'm glad your heart's doing well...very glad!Many more rides ahead Audio...and life experiences .

Gonna have to take Dragking's advice on this....get the idea out of my mind that braking is gonna stand the bike up....apparently...it won't.And I always thought.....wonder where THAT came from?

No tellin HOW good you'll feel IF it is your gall bladder...and they take it out.Probably feel much better overall if it's actually acting up...good luck.....hoping the best for ya Audio!Praying also for everything to turn out well...

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/18/2012 @ 9:22 PM *

Far as I can tell, braking DOESN'T make the bike go vertical. However, I instinctively stand the bike up straight(er) in the rare event that I brake hard in a corner. This braking while turning is a last ditch effort to keep the bike on two wheels when I feel that leaning more is gonna cause a lowside. I believe I can brake lightly in a corner and maintain a lean just as well as no brake. Sometimes you have better odds of avoiding going down by slowing and going off course rather than maintaining speed and leaning harder into the corner.

Seems to me that accelleration should tend to make the bike stand up from the gyroscopic effect of the wheels. Never had a problem keeping the bike in a lean while accelerating out of a corner either though.

Here's what I think: you control the bike a lot more than it controls itself. ...or at least that is what we all aim to do so we don't crash..

I don't know about rear braking... I checked my rear pads the other day and they look almost brand new. I was talking about the front brake... Even when I don't trail brake I use it a little bit to compress the forks which change the geometry of the bike and help it to turn easier, the same way a 55 rear facilitate that process. A bad habit if you ask me cause 90% of the time I don't need to. In corners the rear brake is used to stabilize the bike at extreme lean angle but that's for the "expert" group and I'm far from that. Now, I find it hard to believe that braking make the bike stand up since so many people loose the front when the apply too much front brake at acute lean angles. Furthermore, we all know from a fact that accelerating stand the bike up, so the opposite (braking) should do the exact opposite.

* Last updated by: dragking on 10/18/2012 @ 11:33 PM *

Yup....I was incorrect....it won't stand up with braking...although so much is at play sometimes....countersteering,trailbraking,leaning,not leaning....I always thought my bike was 'kind of' standing up when I applied brake in a turn(which I rarely did).I guess it really wasn't...it was me applying or not applying countersteer...had to be.Just didn't really realize it.Well...I learned something here...excellent....I never apply any 'hard braking' cornering anyway.....but I have had to stand er up(a bit) a few times while leaned in to correct my line.I should be using more or less throttle I suspect to alter my arc.

IDK...I move around on the seat quite often when maneuvering...makes it hard to know exactly what's doing what sometimes.

I can see in that vid....the problem started well before the actual turn in....I allowed the bike to swing(and go)wide,when I should have been digging in deeper.Waited too long.....there was lots of lane to be in...I let it get away from me.

The Rookster said"However, I instinctively stand the bike up straight(er) in the rare event that I brake hard in a corner. This braking while turning is a last ditch effort to keep the bike on two wheels when I feel that leaning more is gonna cause a lowside.".....yep.....same here.I should be trusting the grip more I think.Hard to know how much grip you're gonna have though when you've never pushed to the slip point....I never actually have slid my rear tire in a turn....so I don't know where that point is.

Sometimes I think riding with other guys that are good riders helps someone(like me)to get a better perspective on just what these bikes will do.Long as it's not TOO crazy that is.Unfortunately...there are no other guys around here that get together and go ride outside the city limits....the sportbike guys.They all hang around town and do wheelies up main st.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/19/2012 @ 7:15 AM *

I quit riding groups.Allways someone has to want to take on the big dog which in my area is me.I was usually trying to takee on the big dog.Too many speed contests to remember.But I have the same attitude about braking mid corner.Too hard brakes and it will stand up.I got alot to tryout next week if I can.

I did have a heart attack.Their sure now.They have to wait for that last test to come in to see my spleen and gall bladder.Might get home today.No riding until next week.
Craig

Well....now they know...and you know....so......now you get to follow directions and take yer medicines!It'll be fine...apparently you didn't drop dead...so that's excellent.Some medications for whatever area of your heart was affected(if any)...you'll be fine bro!Doesn't sound like it did 'any' damage...they caught it in time...that's great news.Lots of people have 'minor' attacks....and do nothing about it cause they have no idea what it was.Yours...they caught it....keep looking up Audio....Lots of stuff ahead...good stuff.

"But I have the same attitude about braking mid corner.Too hard brakes and it will stand up"...that's what I always 'thought'...and thought I was experiencing that as well...but....IDK now.Maybe it wasn't the braking doing it at all?????

I've always thought that letting off the gas didn't allow more lean angle...from what everyone was saying...you know...'dig in deeper....don't let off the gas'.....I've always done that....that wreck I had...I did let up on the gas at the very last part...it didn't help at that point.But from reading that article in Sportrider....They're saying to adjust the lean angle(arc)with throttle input and trailbraking.I thought I was doing that all this time....maybe not?I never apply hard braking in a curve...never.I try to get slowed up before I enter a turn."slow in,fast out'...but sometimes...I think my perception of speed is off....I have a tendancy to wait too long before slowing...and I push too much coming in.Gotta stop doing that.Recipe for a wreck....that's for sure.

This bike acellerates so quickly and effortlessly,it's moving REALLY FAST before ya notice it...until ya start to approach something...then it really shows how quick yer moving....seems that way to me anyhow.This isn't the first time I've 'blown' an entrance...but it's the first time I went offroading IN a curve.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/19/2012 @ 9:15 AM *

I remember thinking...."now with this camera...what if I was to film my own death?"....geez....came damn close.I think I'll leave the camera at home for a whileLOL!!!!!And just ride because I like to .

I'm home thinking about next week when it's warm again.Can't ride or drive for 48 hrs.Sure glad to be home.Got my CF Ram Air covers.Sure are nice.
Craig

Grn14: After watching the video, it looked to me like you might have blacked out. The bike seemed to stand up like from gyro effect, and I didn't see any result from a frantic control input. Any medical problems before the crash?

I don't think so....I 'thought' I remembered adding front brake just as I realized it was not gonna make it...just as the front wheel crossed the shoulder line.I hadn't eaten anything that morning....but I did drink one of those energy drinks before I hit that road...which is about a 25 minute drive to the wreck site.It is possible...I remember I drank a red bull one time...two small ones back to back...and rode on the Ortegas in Cali on my Harley.I made it through all the twisties and stuff....but I suddenly 'awoke' in traffic...everything was flashing black and white....I pulled out of traffic...and sat at the curb for a good while until I 'came back'...it was a scarey deal.

You brought up a good point though...I wondered about that myself.Not like me to just blow a curve like that.I've taken that curve plenty of times.And I don't remember anything after...or before actually.Only the front brake application....to try and get er straight up and down to hit the dirt...which I have no recollection of either.

It is possible that drink affected me again like those other ones did....it is.I never touched Red Bull again after the Harley incident.

I also 'thought' I got airlifted out....I'm not so sure now....I was right about 5 minutes from town there....and I got a bill from their Hospital....a big one....(bill that is)....why would I be airlifted out if the Hospital was close by(I'm assuming it was pretty near there).Honestly...I don't really know what happened.The whole thing is fragmented...my memory of things.Only remembering thinking..."c'mon baby....oh shit"...that's about it.

You notice...there aren't any moveable cement berms along there..on the other side...yes...but none where I was at...yet I was convinced there were berms along my side of the road.So IDK....something happened to my mind....IDK.

It is possible I actually DID black out for a second or so....totally possible.That curve was very doable.

I think from now on...the 'energy' drinks are out for me...that's twice now something like this has occurred..coincidence?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/21/2012 @ 8:53 AM *

It's just not like me to allow the bike to drift that way knowing that that turn does tighten up somewhat at the exit.That's one of the key things about that turn....not something you forget.....IDK.You can see I allow the bike to go 'straight' instead if leaning in and countersteering.At the very entrance.That's just not the way I turn.

I do think I failed to do the most basic technique of all.....look THROUGH the turn where you want to go.Had my focus on the frontend instead of the big picture.Looks that way to me anyhow.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/21/2012 @ 9:50 AM *