Hub my apologies for posting on the ZX-14 Forum with Aprilia RSV4 issues but 14s just don't have any problems and Aprilia's do and I'm not wild about that site.....

Bottom line, I got 1816 miles on my '21 RSV4, changed the oil and filter at first service at 620 miles and now have had to add 400 ml of oil to bring it back up to the top mark. So it used .4 liters in 1200 miles or 330 mililiters per 1000 miles.

The exhaust tip is not oily and there are no puddles on the ground underneath the bike, so I don't know where it's going but it's going somewhere.

Could be just a break in thing on the Ape and will correct itself with more miles or something more sinister like improper cylinder hone pattern, defective oil control rings, bad valve guide seals etc., who knows?

I went through this with my 2012 Honda CBR1000 which was always an oil burner, roughly .5 quart per 2000 miles or .25 quarts per 1000 miles, that's 236 mililiters per 1000 miles, not quite as bad as the new Ape.

Your thoughts Hubster and did your Tuono burn oil?

Contacted Aprilia dealer AF1 Racing and found out Aprilia won't authorize an oil burn study on the bike under warranty until oil consumption reaches 1 Liter per 1000 miles, two stroke territory. So I'm at roughly 1/3 of that right now. Don't know if I'll keep it or trade it off for something.....Japanese this time? What a novel idea! BTW, sounds like Aprilia won't honor the remaining 14 months of my warranty anyway since I installed the Akrapovic pipe and ECU UpMap from Gabro last month. Warranty Claim DENIED!!! Yea we have a 54 World Title sticker on the gas tank and Be a Racer sticker plastered on the front fender but don't dare actually take this thing anywhere near a racetrack or upgrade the exhaust system. CaveatEmptor baby!

* Last updated by: Kruz on 1/5/2023 @ 3:55 PM *

If this was my new toy in this situation I would probably get a Blackstone Oil Analysis kit online and send them a sample. If you put your concerns of excessive oil use in the initial submittal when they get back to you they will note if there are any wear metals/materials in your sample and can tell you what might be wearing, like rings or valve guides causing the excessive consumption. If its normal for your motor they will probably advise something along the line of "pull another sample at 7000 miles" to recheck.

I have done this both on my '84 911 motor I thoughts I should dump ~$20K into a rebuild - not 0 metals in the oil and a boat with a pair of 454 Crusaders of unknown history. Oil analysis of the boat oil was 100% normal and I bought it and had no issues.

I think new Porsches still have the 1L per 1Km is normal BS in their owner manual.

Hope its nothing and just needs more brake in

I have no problem discussing any bike problem. Mostly will relate someway somehow. Be honest. I want to hear every time you took the bike past or near its rpm break-in limits. Up to both rpm limits like a 14? It's the discipline to never go near the rpm limit during both initial break-ins.

I've probably told this story, but I've had 4 of the 14's. 2 were broken in by the book, 2 beat to shit right out the gate. Book broke never saw the oil go down from [window] what I poured in. At their 3k oil change those 2 never dropped in level. The beaters always ate oil.

Can't be the guides or upon say a high speed lift you turn around after a 1/4 mile, and watch a puff come out of the pipe when you throttle up. Can be every power stroke of each cylinder burning what the rings can't hold or scrap down>>> gets burned with the gas.

Multiply thousands of power strokes smoking off those leftovers and lowering the oil level. This one is 'splash fed' with the rods flinging the oil out of the big end of the rod, then the gap at the skirt and the splash goes up the wall to lube the skirts.

I don't think it's going to seal itself up. I was averaging around 25k and the beaters never stopped eating oil. In your case, if you did booked it to the letter, the pipe and ECU have no effect on engine parts. Exhaust torque sub-plate delete has no effect on ring seal.

As far as the ape, I think it was book broke and did not ride it enough to notice if it would drop in level. Having that glazing effect, at least you're not wearing it down as if it did seal. You can look at it that way. The beaters always had high compression numbers in the cold tests I do.

You can always take a leak test to it and really check how much leak is going on. Right there shows the story.

* Last updated by: Hub on 1/5/2023 @ 7:29 PM *

Thanks Crude, yes I plan to keep a close eye on it. I went through the Honda CBR1000RR oil burn thing and the bike always ran well, sold it at 12,000 miles and bought the Aprilia, swapped one oil burner for another apparently. Interested in what the Hubinator has to say on this as he's owned an Aprilia, older Tuono I think. I have the race exhaust and ECU on there now and took a look at the inlet to the stock pipe's catalyst and it looks clean as a whistle, you'd think it would be black with that much oil passing through it? Some bikes may take a little longer to break in, don't really know but they're pushing over 220 HP out of 1100cc so I'm guessing single ring pistons to reduce parasitic drag and they sacrifice longevity but this is ridiculous on a production machine. There was a discussion on the forum about passing Euro 5 emissions when they burn oil like an old two smoke dirt bike engine? Hubster, speak to us...lol!

Yes, even a well broken in engine on say the GS bmw I bought new, it said it will burn a little oil with these huge pistons, so keep an eye on the oil.

But me having the luxury to go thru 4 of the same bike basically, book 2 and beat 2, shows some sort of junk science to me. Who would know better than the engine manu to explain what it needs to last a longer time in service.

I can't point to the oil used is way too many brands, plus the out of spec 46yr old oil, it points to how well the bike was meeting those rpm limits from 4000rpm for the first 600mi, then up to 6000rpm for speedo to show 1000mi on the clock, then whip it up to any rpm of choice... if mem serves.

Here is how the warrantee agreement is read. We here at Mother Tea, build the most bad ass bike if not sprinkle a half a horse to bet the busa, we still have the bike to stomp shit out of the competition. But, being that adjustable staging light is for drag racing, we agreed that you are going to have to wait for all that warranty time to laps and avoid any piggyness, flash meness, and a DB noise change is go head, make our day, steer away from stock.

Assays write there in plain sight is follow the book by the letter is that agreement for warranty. See how you want it your way is now-now-now, but couldn't wait for the parts to settle things between each other, no, you had to heat up the high spots like a glazed donut did you.

Now back to the original question... be honest Kruz... how well did you follow book break-in?

Hub, I've broken in 10 new sport bikes since 2016, all broken in the same way except for the first one which was the 2006 ZX-14. I broke the 14 in by the book and it has burned some oil since new. The rest of them including the new Aprilia, I used the same procedure, break it in on the back roads, do your normal ride e.g. stay well clear of the rev limiter, don't lug the motor, stay off the freeway with constant rpm, vary the rpms constantly, gas load the rings with short bursts of throttle and then back off throttle and use engine braking, basically how you ride a twisty backroad. The 2012 CBR1000RR consistently used about 1/2 quart of oil between 2000 mile oil changes from new. The 14 as mentioned has always used oil and now the Ape is an oil burner. Seven of them have never used any oil, 2007 CBR1000RR, 2008 ZX-10R, 2009 ZX-6R, 2011 ZX-10R, 2015 CBR1000RR Repsol, 2016 ZX-10R KRT and 2016 Ducati 959. The Ducati surprised me as I thought that one would use oil, nope!

Redline on the Aprilia is 13,600 rpm, never went above 10,000 rpm until reaching the end of the 1200 mile break in period and have never come anywhere near the redline, you don't need to unless you like going into warp speed, it has monster torque everywhere, maybe 11,500 rpm tops after the break in.

I am going to ride it and keep adding oil and see how it does going forward. The ZX-14 and '12 CBR never got better, this one might or might not, I don't know.

Hum, interesting. The only thing I can say is invest in a lead down tester, and see where you are at?
Numbers go like this:
1-2%: New or rebuilt.
8-9%: Race tear down.
10-15%: Production tear down.
16%-Up: Runs but hard starting, no power, may smoke some or eat some [not showing] as we are looking now.

Is the bike still in warranty? If you can monitor the oil and add whatever it needs, ask when the factory calls the oil loss time for a warranty fix. Plus if we are gathering info on the ape site that more bikes of said model are eating oil, then you probably have a case.

Sounds like normal break-in following book. I took surface road with lots of traffic lights, then go thru a canyon during break-in. Load going up hills, lift going downhill. No freeway sustained riding until I was deeper in the mileage.

Yessir Hub, I still have 13 months of warranty left but I hear Aprilia will not honor the warranty if any mods are made to the machine. I have the Akra pipe and ECU remap on there.... that would give them fits. I think I'm just going to run the bike for awhile and see if it does settle down on the oil burn. If it is a real smoker and Aprilia won't take it in under warranty, I can always trade it off for something else, most likely would go back to Japanese,
less passion but more practicality.

I hear ya. Being at the duc sites to check out the dependability of the product is a 50/50 shot. An example would be reading a 999 stalling at lights. Dealer level mechanic says he's seen more of the same model having the same problem. So from going to work and back, it stalled-out 20 times on average. Mech went thru it and it stalls one in every 20 less. Any bike you've owned ever stall? Didn't think so. That's unacceptable in my book if not flat out dangerous. Vo/Reg's taking a shit early is another. Electronic glitches. Not for me. I'm too spoiled owning Japanese brands.

No matter how you look at it, the flash would have placed more fuel at certain X to Y points, but for it to be lean at euro emission levels, has no effect on the cylinder wall finish. That's what I'm looking at. Is this the latest nikasil coating finish like the 14 has? Shit's bulletproof.

The exhaust can't effect oil consumption. Only thing I can point to is maybe an aftermarket air cleaner feeding larger microns at it. Probably one of the new camera scopes that can snake thru the plug hole, video the cylinder via a phone app?

The handy dandy leak down tool for that fleet you own is well spent. The cam-scope for the general look see. More like join the club and tool up you wanna play with these things. The all-in-house short of machine work. That's how I have to play it. I just bought a special tool for the HD. The rest I had to meguyveer, and the job is done already having the tools like a many pullers when I had to work on cars. Came in handy for this job.

I didn't catch if others were finding theirs too-used oil when new? Both beaters and book did you ask? A parts page may show a different ring supplier [if shows] that began with your model? Back to the nika and scope the finish. Unless they can prove the oil consumption is normal when new.

I mean, even going up to 4k just in shifting alone is not over the 6k limit just a few hundred miles later. But to rev at 9 or 10k and say fuck it, I'm committed to this corner already, with only 20 mile on the speedo? There is your oil loss to point to. But booked? You might have a case... if the beaters admit it, the books' match yours in oil loss... can't be.

Kind of see you have to do the work for them? Have to bring some evidence to prove something is not right. A guide seal would be easy to spot. The sits overnight, some valve is open and drops oil on top of the piston, or one is closed and still drips then is washed off eventually. That's morning start. So guides/seals are not it. This points to the rings.

All good points Hub, at this point all I know is 400 ml of oil went somewhere in 1200 miles but not sure yet exactly where it went.

I have well meaning folks on the forum telling me to give it more break in miles to see if the oil consumption rate comes down but I am not reassured this will rectify itself. If it's a valve guide seal it's not going to change and if it's a cylinder hone screwup or bad cylinder/ring sealing, it may or may not get better with further running in miles.

The Akrapovic and reflash have only been there for 200 miles, so that is not even a factor unless Aprilia tries to deny a warranty claim.

The last possibility is an indicating error, either wrong dipstick installed (highly unlikely) or a sampling error, also unlikely as I know precisely how many liter bottles of oil I poured in and I was very careful checking the oil, measured it three times following the book, you know the drill, bike straight up, at operating temperature, wait a minute and then blah blah blah.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 1/9/2023 @ 8:48 AM *

I'm going to throw a couple things out here.
When I was working at a shop, we often saw oil consumption on big bore bikes like the original Ninja 1000 almost always due to being broken in too easy. You need to develop some combustion pressure to help the rings seal. And, I'm not certain of this with Kawasaki or Aprilia, but with Ducati, every bike was put on a dyno right after final assembly and run to redline in every gear as part of the final check.

I'm not sure how my 06 was broken in since I bought it used, but it burns very little oil.

Mad

Break-in procedure has been an ongoing controversy ever since I started riding bikes, one school of thought says use a gentle break-in procedure by the book, the manufacturer knows best!

The next group says "rubbish" the break-in procedure is written by the legal department to keep the newbies from looping their 200 HP bikes leaving the dealer parking lot. Ride it like you stole it off the showroom floor and on and on it goes.

Motorcycle Magazine did a test some time back where they took two brand new identical motors and broke them in both ways and then tore them down for dimensional inspection. No difference measured.

I decided many motorcycles back to just ride it like I normally would ride, don't rev the tits off of it, don't lug it, short bursts of power on the straights and back off in the corners, don't do freeway/constant speed during break-in. Out of the last 10 bikes, seven are oil tight and I've had three burners, the '06 ZX-14, the '12 CBR1000RR and now the '21 Aprilia.

There are several others complaining of their RSV4s burning oil but not all. Don't know what the problem is on this one.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 1/12/2023 @ 9:35 AM *

I don't know who this guys is but he came to the exact same conclusions I did on break-in:

Your text to link here...

Ari Henning at Motorcyclist Magazine says it doesn't make any difference how you break it in:

Your text to link here...

I say BS on the lawyerage speak about the factory covering their ass. They are presenting a pretty powerful bike. A turnkey drag bike. The change plugs so early you want the ripper. They are saying without saying; to paraphrase the break-in as ['slow at these rpm speeds (THEN) ride under the posted speed limits of any road you choose]... stay the fuck to the right and you're bike will be all righty tight-TEA... Now beat it when the mileage meets the time slip.

Ari's 4% leak on both engines, but was there a before number leak? I call those high numbers a leak down I took of a 20k mile sitter. The other video saying scrub the rings harder as in heat it up and cook the rings weak? How fresh is a 500 miler at almost redline for hours, and how weak are the rings now? I call that one BS or explain it away. Ring expansion is probably junk by wear alone. But to see oil spewing out of every car, call it even back in the 1950's, let alone I bring in aircraft engines of WWI and ring up that story to me.

The comment about a worker at Honda's product assembly plant watching them rev to redline, then shutoff? And all those bikes/engines sold, either dyno'd on a bench or rear wheel, it still says the oil is at the top within hundreds of 360° ­spins, not even a thousand rung up yet. Still says not enough heat to hurt a skirt, wrinkle a ring.

If you think about it, my junk science happened twice. So try to convince me beat is best out of 4 of the best of the same bullet is proof, the book reads right. I still remember looking back and seeing that slippery oil [out of the new tire] leave a long strip down the street. That was the first time of hard ring imbedding. This was the 2006 mule's first clutch release, and that fella would drink it up.

The '17 has been sitting for a few weeks and still at the same place, plus is overdue for its interval. I babied that break-in. It's a take it for WOT it's worth, 2x2, it works for me, should work for you, is I told you so, in so many words a day...

Signed,
NOLTT

Hubster, admittedly I'm a bit rusty on interpreting Hubbish; but summarizing if I got it right, break-in by the book is the way to go in your opinion?

Have you ever seen a new bike that is using oil improve consumption with more miles?

I really like this bike, the sound, the engine character, the power delivery characteristics, the handling and suspension are absolutely top shelf in performance, a real hard act to follow in my opinion and don't know what's out there that I would trade it in on, maybe a 2023 Ducati V4 S or a 2023 BMW S1000RR, that's about it.

Hoping this thing gets better as the mileage accumulates.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 1/13/2023 @ 9:38 AM *

I say BS on the lawyerage speak about the factory covering their ass. They are presenting a pretty powerful bike. A turnkey drag bike.

Remember back to '06, original ZX-14 release? Most of the threads in the early days were about the nanny ECU limiting power below 6000 rpm. Neutered to 600 Supersport levels below 6K, can we say boring?

Subthrottle butterfly removal and remap via PCIII unleashed the beast, no comparison.

I don't work for KHI but my guess is legal told them to tone it down in the lower gears to prevent looping the bike with newbies on the throttle.

In my opinion you should know what you are getting and plan accordingly. This is one of the most controllable but powerful machines I have ever owned, still holds it's own against the very best liter bikes of today and was my very first sportbike of the modern era, I don't count my early 1970 era two smokes, Suzuki GT550 and RD350 Yamaha, those were limp noodles by comparison.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 1/13/2023 @ 9:49 AM *

I am just trying to go after long lost memory but the 2001 Bandit and the 2008 CBR1000RR both were oil burners and the problem was something with the pistons and oil ring glands / holes in them.

Maybe it is the same with the Aprilia and not the break in ?

Lytnin, I don't know, I've posted a thread over on the RSV4 forum on oil consumption and a couple of guys have reported the same issue on their 21/22 RSV4s and similar numbers with the 21/22 Tuono owners group but most say their engine is oil tight.

Several '17/18 RSV4 owners had problems with high oil use but it's not a rampant problem.

Several of us just had bad luck it looks like and drew the short straw.

Time will tell if it effects engine longevity, I can't see any way that it wouldn't.

The bad part is I have no idea why this engine burns oil. I love this bike, best machine I've ever owned and I've had some good ones, just a little disappointed right now.

Well Kruz, you are spot on with the lingo still. Yes, Book Is Best. As far as oil consumption, it's more a top off before a ride, or inspect level every other ride?

Both leakers were keepers but between two totals, one traded in [wanted ABS], one oil tight [the current ride] I would have kept the oil burners and thought of nothing more than add oil and keep the bike as I was doing with both of them. I felt no performance loss and compression was 8 pounds off from max number... tested cold.

That's way I'd know if the wear factor would eventually seal up the chamber? I'd have that question answered down the road. Sort of like, "the ball is now in your court, Kruz."

I would not give up that kind of handling, and a bag full of other goodies that make that bike what it is. The quick and dirty is a bottle brush hone and new rings. NOT! Less wrenching, better for both sides is my way of thinking. I'd be on the conservative approach [adding oil], not deep surgery.

More like go back to a break-in oil. I used Maxima just for the R&D of it mixed with the old 50w.

Last oil change on the 14 showed zero debris between pleats. Cleanest 14 of the 4 yet. It's probably been 7 changes on the 14, and that says it goes back to any oil around plus the same 2qts of 50w. What I'm saying is, the first book bike did not use any type of break-in oil, just the same old 2qts and whatever I had for the car's oil. Meaning, it shows me it was not the oil, but the slow and low rpm seals things up.

Signed,
R&D Test Riders Breakfast Club

Thanks for this insight Hub, that's kinda where I'm going with all this, take a wait and see approach, no bottle brush hone job from Mother Teapot or anything drastic of that nature and see where this all goes.

Rode it back to back with my '16 ZX-10R and it makes that one and my '06 ZX-14 feel a bit on the pokey side!

The bike is just so good in all areas, you can tell it has a championship pedigree in it's DNA, just a cryin' shame it's a bit of a smoker but let's see what happens as I get some more smiles on it..

* Last updated by: Kruz on 1/14/2023 @ 4:36 PM *